WolF_00

Hello all,

I always liked he s65 and s63, but i can not have enough money to buy any of these cars, but I have found news that spreading around the net; that mercedes will replace both engine with new twin turbo 5L V8 engine. I found the site below, but it does not have any references,

http://www.motorauthority.com/cars/m...nt-amg-v8-v12/

actually I liked the s65, but I can not imagine mercedes will stop producing it . I hope the new engine at least matching the power of V12; for sure it won't.

WSH

Doubt even MB/AMG knows what their engine strategy will be for next 1-3 yrs...

Tricky times in EU w/all kinds of political concerns re: CO2 emissions, high-powered cars, etc....and class jealousies in a quasi-socialist culture, esp when many of the buyers of new V12s in London/MC are newly-moneyed foreigners....

Yet, in CA and in places like Chindia/Mideast/Russia (or rather at their London/BH wkend houses), newly created wealth is being consumed that often wants $200K 12 cyl commuter cars....V12s exude a powerful image (even if many 65s in BH are almost never driven faster than 60MPH)...a piddly V8, no matter how turbo'd, simply lacks mystique of V12....

VW Bent has proven that even lowly VW can sell ?3-4K/yr $200K 12 cyl commuter cars if properly marketed....(though I have a dim view of VW engineering and Bent aesthetics, will applaud VW's clever marketing of Bent in large volumes...AMG could learn some basic marketing lessons on 65s)

Having said all that, know many jaded guys who have owned new 65s in past and appreciate its magnificent tq delivery (and can afford many more new 65s), but overall seem to prefer dynamics (linear delivery, superior traction, sharper steering, less nose-heavy, more charismatic exhaust note) of their relatively underpowered, less prestigious CL63 030s....each motor...and chassis set-up has its own strengths/weaknesses, esp on interesting roads....

AustinGuy

All I could think about when I read that article was that the value of my 1 month old S550 (while already falling like a rock) just took a hurl into outer space at warp speed.

Or ........maybe it will help make my piddly 382hp V8 become more of a collector's item

whoover

The 63 engine has a bigger displacement than the 65. The truism "there's no replacement for displacement" means that a TT 63 could easily produce the same, or greater, power and torque. That said, it wouldn't have the balance and smoothness of the V12, which is a key engine attribute for a car like the S600. I like having both -- the silence and poise at any rpms that can only come with a V12 and the massive and flat torque curve that could be developed by a V-8. This is why I hope the V12 is not dropped, not that the power couldn't be duplicated.

trumpet1

I really see no reason whatsoever to mess with the success of the current V12. Leave it be and continue to produce them. There will always be a market for it. I know I will have a hard time going back to anything less. I don't need any more power and the smoothness and balance of this engine (even the VAG W12s VW, Bentley, Audi) are slick running engines and I personally will cringe when I hear of a new V12. If a new one comes around, then we will have to go through 2 or 3 years of hearing of all the problems with it and how this and that needs to be worked out. Just leave well enough alone. Just my .02.

WSH

whoover and trumpet, you guys raise great points re: the V12s....

Personally, am undecided; have an order for both '09 CL65 and '09 CL63 030 (will pick one after I learn more about changes for MY09)....am a huge fan of both 63/65.....65 is the ultimate 280 missle and 63 is my favorite wkend mtn twisties car.....

Interestingly, was chatting recently w/a few car nut colleagues (each buys a new AMG CL/SL every 3-6mos and has owned at least one prior 65)....each has had a 65 bought back for lemon law motor-specific issues (most recent is a MY07 65); and each is rather ambivalent about ever buying another new 65, until AMG comes up w/a lighter, high-tech, more robust 65 (or whatever new V12) motor....and better tq/traction chassis balance, esp on wet CA winter roads....and each was about as irritated as I am by the lack of 030 wheels and the codgerly quilted leather and plasticky sports steering wheel of 65s....common sense: if one can't deliver flawless engineering, at least try to market more specifically vs tastes of repeat buyers....

Would argue my mini-focus group reveals much re: 65's unresolved issues, even ?4yrs post-launch....and value of larger-scale production, so AMG can rapidly debug issues w/motors, etc.....and engineer V12s w/latest-tech perf characteristics in terms of light wt; linear power delivery; and seamlessly mated vs advcd, smart gearboxes and chassis networks....

trumpet1

WSH, can your friends/colleagues be more specific as to what is failing in these 65 engines? Maybe MB should just stop the hand-building process of these engines and build the 65 engines the same way they build the 600 engines (continuing with the extra displacement, special parts, and special intakes, etc., etc., that make a 65 what a 65 is).

If I were left to guess, I would have picked that the transmissions or engine mount supports were to have failed before the engines themselves did. Or is it software issues (highly unlikely IMO).
I would just like to hear/read more info on exactly what is failing on these past buy-back 65s of the past few years. Are the consumers just beating them to death on the track? I know they are powerful , but they have limitations to how much they are challenged.

I personally have tested mine a few times, but I am very easy with my car as I plan to keep it for a while and don't like to abuse my car. It's just nice to know that if I need a surge of acceleration , I have it on tap.

Oh, and one more thing, I'm excited to hear you may be getting a CL65. I bet if you get one, you'll keep it longer than your past cars. Either way you go (63 or 65), you're making a great choice.

whoover

I'd be curious to know their problems as well. My experience (25K miles trouble free) matches what my SA told me before I bought the car: you'll have to add a quart of oil every 2,500 miles but the engine is pretty much bullet-proof. It's going in today for the first time ever, other than scheduled service, for the IR sensor in the door handle that enables the remote window/sunroof operation. That's a high-failure item on W220s, at least, and is my first problem in two years of hard driving.