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I'm making my own cai as I have seen many other v12 owners do to get the best results. Eliminating those boxes and a custom 4-5" j pipe from the turbo to outside air. Air from under the hood is hot, air needs to come from in front of the radiator or somewhere else.
I know you're worried about heat soak, but running a new pipe to the front of the radiator isn't going to do squat. Our cars already run their intakes to the front of the car and pull air from in front of the radiator. Heat soak only happens while the car is idling at zero MPH. And that heat soak will affect the setup you want to do too. As soon as the car starts moving, the intake temps begin dropping immediately, whether it's your proposed set-up or the stock system. If you want to test what I'm talking about, use the Torque Pro app on your phone and watch the intake temps at idle and while moving before your mod and after. There will be no difference whatsoever. You're not going to outsmart the MB engineers.
I know you're worried about heat soak, but running a new pipe to the front of the radiator isn't going to do squat. Our cars already run their intakes to the front of the car and pull air from in front of the radiator. Heat soak only happens while the car is idling at zero MPH. And that heat soak will affect the setup you want to do too. As soon as the car starts moving, the intake temps begin dropping immediately, whether it's your proposed set-up or the stock system. If you want to test what I'm talking about, use the Torque Pro app on your phone and watch the intake temps at idle and while moving before your mod and after. There will be no difference whatsoever. You're not going to outsmart the MB engineers.
I guess what got me, in particular, going on this was thericker modding his CAI on his V12 Biturbo and getting HP gains of +50 with 1/4 mile times getting quicker as well. Not to mention Brabus also posts HP gains with a modification of the intakes as well. Now, I am merely looking for a reasonably cheaper option that will be more feasible for us to do. As for the heat soak, he addresses this by using silicone piping with SS connectors and I believe I read on one of the threads about using the wheel wells instead of in front of the radiator, but that may of been a misreading on my part. Ultimately, I have 97k miles on my engine and 6k miles on my tranny, I am trying to enjoy the last few precious miles I have on my beast and make it run like a bullet while I still have her.
I'm making my own cai as I have seen many other v12 owners do to get the best results. Eliminating those boxes and a custom 4-5" j pipe from the turbo to outside air. Air from under the hood is hot, air needs to come from in front of the radiator or somewhere else.
Cant be too hard for us right? He literally has the build sheet right here
I think I will be trying this However, I will be using silicone piping instead, as recommended by TheRicker
Originally Posted by NEMES1S View Post
where did you get the piping? Was it just repurposed exhaust piping? If you remember the piping source or part numbers I would like to give this a shot.
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- Cut two of them with angel which is over 90 degrees. ( Turbo inlet right and left side)
- Cut the third one in the middle. This pipes is going to the from of the radiator. ( Left and right side)
- Then you need two (left and right side) 2-2,5" long short pipes from the pipes you have left from the over 90 degrees pipes. Cut from there this pipes and weld it at the pipe ends where the filters attached. It must also have a small angle up.
(When I have weld my pipes I can take a shot so you can see how much).
I guess what got me, in particular, going on this was thericker modding his CAI on his V12 Biturbo and getting HP gains of +50 with 1/4 mile times getting quicker as well. Not to mention Brabus also posts HP gains with a modification of the intakes as well. Now, I am merely looking for a reasonably cheaper option that will be more feasible for us to do. As for the heat soak, he addresses this by using silicone piping with SS connectors and I believe I read on one of the threads about using the wheel wells instead of in front of the radiator, but that may of been a misreading on my part. Ultimately, I have 97k miles on my engine and 6k miles on my tranny, I am trying to enjoy the last few precious miles I have on my beast and make it run like a bullet while I still have her.
There is no such thing as 50 hp from a CAI....unless the stock system were completely strangled, which certainly isn't that case with our cars. It would take tuning of the ECU to get 50+ hp gains. The heat soak disappears as soon as the car starts moving, so that is a non-issue. You'd be lucky to get 5 hp from the setup you're thinking about doing, which would make zero difference at the track.
Why do you think your car is about to die? A well maintained S600 can go well over 200k.
Literally, the only piece we have to substitute for the full silicone effect is this part http://www.frozenboost.com/180-silic...180-p-673.html
instead of the aluminum bend listed above. And also get SS fasteners to join them. Oh, it comes in red
There is no such thing as 50 hp from a CAI....unless the stock system were completely strangled, which certainly isn't that case with our cars. It would take tuning of the ECU to get 50+ hp gains. The heat soak disappears as soon as the car starts moving, so that is a non-issue. You'd be lucky to get 5 hp from the setup you're thinking about doing, which would make zero difference at the track.
Why do you think your car is about to die? A well maintained S600 can go well over 200k.
I see what your saying DaveW68, Its more the matter of the increased air flow that gives the bigger gain which in turn gives more cooling and also better cooling to the turbos. This is pretty much taking out the stock system, which may be where we are getting lost in communication.
I dont necessarily think its going to die, but I do rarely see any input from someone who has a S600 with over 75k miles. I feel like I am in no mans land by myself
For a reference, the numbers that they have posted here show a considerable step increase. However, this does include the intercoolers as well for the dyno results. I do realize that manufacturers do skew their numbers sometimes to make their dollar numbers go up, but this is based on a similar setup for an increase in airflow through an aftermarket intake.
To me, these set ups are pulling in hot air from the engine. Having a custom pipe made for almost a "ram air" type of cooling would be more efficient than the cai pulling in hot air.
Also, just removing the cover alone lets out a lot of head, so that does add to heat soak. IMO, before adding power, the cooling needs to be good.
The proof in the pudding is to actually do multiple runs at the track before and after your CAI mods....with very close DA's at the same track. If you see actual average improvements of .1 or better, I'll .
The internet is full of a bunch of armchair racers who are shocked when they find out that the mods that were "guaranteed" to give them x amount of power and improve their ET's by x amount turn out to be severely disappointed when it doesn't pan out in the real world.
Logic has it that in order for an engine to effectively flow more air input, the exhaust has to become freer flowing too. And the ECU has to be tuned to allow for more flow. This will cause less back-pressure, which could improve HP, but will likely lower torque at the same time. Net benefits would be realize at very high speeds, but the car could suffer at lower speeds with reduced torque.
MB engineers are pretty smart. Thinking that you can improve a proven design without making any major changes to the engine and ECU could be looked at as foolish. But I applaud your eagerness and efforts.
This was just installed and he is having to swap out his plugs and ignition coils, but will be tested soon. Looks pretty good though. The only concern I would have would be flow to the actual radiator, which he says is covered by the fan. These were also TOO big of filters, which he has corrected by ordering the correct ones for whenever he swaps these out and cleans them.
The proof in the pudding is to actually do multiple runs at the track before and after your CAI mods....with very close DA's at the same track. If you see actual average improvements of .1 or better, I'll .
The internet is full of a bunch of armchair racers who are shocked when they find out that the mods that were "guaranteed" to give them x amount of power and improve their ET's by x amount turn out to be severely disappointed when it doesn't pan out in the real world.
Logic has it that in order for an engine to effectively flow more air input, the exhaust has to become freer flowing too. And the ECU has to be tuned to allow for more flow. This will cause less back-pressure, which could improve HP, but will likely lower torque at the same time. Net benefits would be realize at very high speeds, but the car could suffer at lower speeds with reduced torque.
MB engineers are pretty smart. Thinking that you can improve a proven design without making any major changes to the engine and ECU could be looked at as foolish. But I applaud your eagerness and efforts.
Thanks DaveW68,
I appreciate your professionalism and IF I ever get around to doing this I will be sure to do some sort of before and after tests with similar conditions of fuel, temp, tires and such and I'll post em. As it is, its about $200-250 with this change over with filters included. I agree they are smart and whenever I do get around to doing this I would definitely want to have an actual tune done on a dyno to get it right. I have carried a lot of it over from my track bike which has lots of small little upgrades that give it 5-20 hp depending on the upgrade, but all of it was not perfect until the ECU was adjusted. I will keep you updated
This was just installed and he is having to swap out his plugs and ignition coils, but will be tested soon. Looks pretty good though. The only concern I would have would be flow to the actual radiator, which he says is covered by the fan. These were also TOO big of filters, which he has corrected by ordering the correct ones for whenever he swaps these out and cleans them.
That setup is guaranteed to make his engine produce less power. His engine will run hotter with the radiator and heat exchanger being blocked. Also, rain water could get into those filters and be sucked into the engine. Not a good idea. Unless the car only comes out on sunny days, the filters have to be run behind the radiator in order to protect the engine.
That setup is guaranteed to make his engine produce less power. His engine will run hotter with the radiator and heat exchanger being blocked. Also, rain water could get into those filters and be sucked into the engine. Not a good idea. Unless the car only comes out on sunny days, the filters have to be run behind the radiator in order to protect the engine.
Agreed, I'm waiting on his results to see the effects of it being in front of the radiator. I had the exact same thought. As for the
Water issue that was talked about in the thread as well and was disproved.
As for the
Water issue that was talked about in the thread as well and was disproved.
I haven't read the thread you're talking about....but how was the water issue disproved? Water can certainly be sucked in through those filters during heavy rains at speed, which could cause misfires and throw codes. Not much different than having a head-gasket leak.
So, I put it on. I just need a new badge or something to go where that mercedes emblem was that is broken as they don't sell it separately, you have to buy the whole cover.
Some of you will like before (oem), some of you will like after. I think after gives life to the engine bay and isn't expected when you open the hood and it compliments the calipers nicely as a whole package.
I haven't read the thread you're talking about....but how was the water issue disproved? Water can certainly be sucked in through those filters during heavy rains at speed, which could cause misfires and throw codes. Not much different than having a head-gasket leak.
Sorry Fellas, I have been eating some burgers and forgot to respond. I found the threads that have the HP gains and I'll try to annotate which ones answer which questions. Obviously, if we have different conclusions we can hopefully find a resolution between all, in total, 3 of us.
So most of these have the HP gains in there, you just have to sift through it. Then of course there is the arguments going on, but I think it answers all our questions. One other thing in my mind is the engine bay, our cars have distronic and also ABC, which some, if not all those cars did not. This could cause us to lose some engine bay space, which is already very limited. Just a thought.
I totally agree though, we most definitely are an exclusive group which is why we have to stick together!
[QUOTE=WHPH28;6496902]So, I put it on. I just need a new badge or something to go where that mercedes emblem was that is broken as they don't sell it separately, you have to buy the whole cover.
Some of you will like before (oem), some of you will like after. I think after gives life to the engine bay and isn't expected when
That looks great! I went a different route and my engine bay also needs a good deep cleaning.. I'll get around to it..
Hater! Only 3k miles away from 100k Unfortunately, my job requires too much of my time to keep this beauty clean. You don't wanna know the last time it was waxed.. The navy not only steals your soul, but also your life.
The crazy part is that I just cleaned it for the paint.. it's already that dusty, maybe it's the hood cloth stuffs. Or maybe I'm just making excuses.. lol
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.
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