2010 S400 Gas Engine Locked up. Please help !! I need info on engine type
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Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Houston, TX
MY2004 E320
2010 S400 Gas Engine Locked up. Please help !! I need info on engine type
Its a very long story and particularly sad but I want to share it with you guys.
2010 S400 Hybrid with 80K Miles. I own a small auto repair shop, and this is my personal car. The car would not start one fine morning few months ago. Towed it to Mercedes Dealer 1 who diagnosed trunk battery bad and battery controller. After replacement of both, car still would not start. Car parked there for 2 months and 1600 in diagnostic charges. Final analysis "Need permission for further paid diagnostics.
I Towed the car to a Certified Mercedes Tech who says Hybrid system is inoperative. Cannot diagnose without charging hybrid battery that's appears dead by now. He keeps car for two weeks and tows it to Mercedes Dealer #2 .
Dealer #2 determines in 3 days that Hybrid Battery is dead and needs replacement a $15,000.00 YES that's Fifteen thousand Dollars. I beg MB USA for help, and they graciously agree to pay half for something that I could not have broken due to lack of maintenance. After replacement and 7500 bucks later, dealership calls me and informs me that there is no oil in the engine and it appears to be locked up...WHAT!!!!!!!
Its been three weeks since Dealer 2 has had the car. Today, I am getting it towed to my own shop and looking for a rebuild/replacement engine.
As luck would have it - I cannot seem to find a used S400 engine out there. Not even at LKQ or car-parts.com
Does any one know of a recourse on engine swap?
Is there any year of the e350 engine that I can swap out with mine?
Is there any other MB vehicle that shares this engine or is it unique to the S400?
Any knowledge - Please help. The engine family is identical to e-class (722)
2010 S400 Hybrid with 80K Miles. I own a small auto repair shop, and this is my personal car. The car would not start one fine morning few months ago. Towed it to Mercedes Dealer 1 who diagnosed trunk battery bad and battery controller. After replacement of both, car still would not start. Car parked there for 2 months and 1600 in diagnostic charges. Final analysis "Need permission for further paid diagnostics.
I Towed the car to a Certified Mercedes Tech who says Hybrid system is inoperative. Cannot diagnose without charging hybrid battery that's appears dead by now. He keeps car for two weeks and tows it to Mercedes Dealer #2 .
Dealer #2 determines in 3 days that Hybrid Battery is dead and needs replacement a $15,000.00 YES that's Fifteen thousand Dollars. I beg MB USA for help, and they graciously agree to pay half for something that I could not have broken due to lack of maintenance. After replacement and 7500 bucks later, dealership calls me and informs me that there is no oil in the engine and it appears to be locked up...WHAT!!!!!!!
Its been three weeks since Dealer 2 has had the car. Today, I am getting it towed to my own shop and looking for a rebuild/replacement engine.
As luck would have it - I cannot seem to find a used S400 engine out there. Not even at LKQ or car-parts.com
Does any one know of a recourse on engine swap?
Is there any year of the e350 engine that I can swap out with mine?
Is there any other MB vehicle that shares this engine or is it unique to the S400?
Any knowledge - Please help. The engine family is identical to e-class (722)
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2016 C300
My main concern with that car is how flammable it's become. I mean if for instance it was parked outside your shop with a big high amperage booster hooked up to it 24/7 and something somehow caused an unattended engine fire it would probably total it. So, you know, be careful. That thing is a friggin tinder box as it is. Oil soaked rags in the engine compartment will only make it worse!
Seriously, that's the saddest S Class story I've ever heard. Is the comprehensive insurance current?
Seriously, that's the saddest S Class story I've ever heard. Is the comprehensive insurance current?
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2016 C300
Originally Posted by Jason B
Damn, swap a s550 motor in there and be done with Mercedes feeble attempt at a hybrid.
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W140 Mercedes S350, W221 S550 sport
Oh crap, you're right. Going to still cost a small fortune. Yea, that propane tank in the garage I think had a leak...
The best you can do is try to keeping working with Mercedes corporate and get that case to go all the way to the top.
The best you can do is try to keeping working with Mercedes corporate and get that case to go all the way to the top.
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From: Palatine, IL
Speedriven
In all seriousness, though: that is, without a doubt, a terrible Mercedes story and probably has more to do with the dealers' lack of familiarity with the S400 than anything else. I think you should definitely continue to press MBUSA on the engine- especially since so many techs (including 2 different MB dealers) were probably starting/cranking/driving the car with no oil. (!??)
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2016 C300
How does a car that's not being driven run the crankcase dry? There's all sorts of warnings for low oil, loss of oil pressure, etc.
Something happened at the shop. Had to be an oil change that got half done (drained and never refilled) or something. Oil does not simply evaporate. I wonder if the drain pan plug is in place.
There may actually be a legitimate Comprehensive claim for the seized engine. The requirement for coverage is that the damage be sudden and accidental. We covered similar claims, including Jiffy Lube cases where they forgot the drain plug. We then went against Jiffy Lube for reimbursement.
I had a claim where a chick drove the car with a low oil pressure light on because she didn't want to stop at night in a strange neighborhood. She seized the engine and we covered it.
We covered accidental diesel fuel infiltration in gas engines and vice versa. There's a saying in insurance: Stupidity is stupidity, but we cover stupidity.
I'd report it to the carrier. They can handle the LKQ engine swap and subrogate back against the shop.
Something happened at the shop. Had to be an oil change that got half done (drained and never refilled) or something. Oil does not simply evaporate. I wonder if the drain pan plug is in place.
There may actually be a legitimate Comprehensive claim for the seized engine. The requirement for coverage is that the damage be sudden and accidental. We covered similar claims, including Jiffy Lube cases where they forgot the drain plug. We then went against Jiffy Lube for reimbursement.
I had a claim where a chick drove the car with a low oil pressure light on because she didn't want to stop at night in a strange neighborhood. She seized the engine and we covered it.
We covered accidental diesel fuel infiltration in gas engines and vice versa. There's a saying in insurance: Stupidity is stupidity, but we cover stupidity.
I'd report it to the carrier. They can handle the LKQ engine swap and subrogate back against the shop.
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Build catapult. Load up said alien object. Launch object into low orbit and send request to Arecibo installation to transmit "come pick up" signal to original owners.
I will offer you zero technical help as all it will do is allow you to get stuck further and throw more good money after bad money.
I will offer you zero technical help as all it will do is allow you to get stuck further and throw more good money after bad money.
Last edited by alx; Feb 9, 2016 at 08:08 PM.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: USA
W140 Mercedes S350, W221 S550 sport
Yea, I guess there's a reason the resale on these are ridiculously low.
When Mercedes used of offer the S320, S420, S500, etc. they got rid of those lower end models for a reason. But this one is really an odd ball with no dealer experience in repairing them.
When Mercedes used of offer the S320, S420, S500, etc. they got rid of those lower end models for a reason. But this one is really an odd ball with no dealer experience in repairing them.
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2016 C300
The more I think about it, the better I feel about the seized engine being covered under the OP's Comprehensive insurance. (It's called "comprehensive" because it covers pretty much every form of damage that can't be classified as being caused by a collision. Theft and fire are the most common applications, but not the only ones.0
If the engine seized when someone at the shop started the car, even better. A shop carries coverage called Garagekeepers Liability. It covers damage to any vehicle that is in the care, custody or control of the shop at the time the damage occurs. The shop won't surrender that coverage willingly, but your auto insurer will happily pay for your claim (less your comp deductible) and then subrogate the shop's liability carrier. They'll return to you a percentage of what they recover back for your deductible. (If they get 80% of the claim back, you'll get 80% of the deductible.
Subrogation between carriers usually takes six to nine months. There is no lawsuit...all major carriers are members of arbitration so a three person panel of adjusters will hear the case and give a verdict. In any event, even if your carrier files arb on the other carrier and loses, it doesn't affect your settlement. The most you can get hurt is the deductible.
If the engine seized when someone at the shop started the car, even better. A shop carries coverage called Garagekeepers Liability. It covers damage to any vehicle that is in the care, custody or control of the shop at the time the damage occurs. The shop won't surrender that coverage willingly, but your auto insurer will happily pay for your claim (less your comp deductible) and then subrogate the shop's liability carrier. They'll return to you a percentage of what they recover back for your deductible. (If they get 80% of the claim back, you'll get 80% of the deductible.
Subrogation between carriers usually takes six to nine months. There is no lawsuit...all major carriers are members of arbitration so a three person panel of adjusters will hear the case and give a verdict. In any event, even if your carrier files arb on the other carrier and loses, it doesn't affect your settlement. The most you can get hurt is the deductible.
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2016 C300
I had both a 420 and 500. If you put the 420's transmission in Sport (and back in those days it stayed there) it came off the line like the 500 in Comfort (which is where I usually kept mine anyway.) The only other big difference was the 500 got perforated leather and heated/cooled seats standard, where they were an option on the 420.
But yeah, the S400 sounded like it would be a complicated turd the minute it hit the market.
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Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Houston, TX
MY2004 E320
** Update **
Thanks for all the replies - guys. Here is the latest update - Car is back at my shop with new hybrid battery.
Dealer 1 says they drained the oil originally and it was clean - however there are metal chunks in the oil pickup and motor is locked for unknown reasons.
Dealer 2 says they cannot put in a used engine - just a brand new one for 22K. Suggests I find a used engine and swap it out from a junkyard.
MBUSA is DONE WITH ME. They will not help any more - as my car has high mileage. So only option I have is to find another engine.
Dealer #2 says its same block and heads as any 272 e350 or ML350. Since I have a shop, he said unofficially, you can swap easily. Just keep from your engine whatever s different on the surface like the oil pan etc.
Any 272 engine 2007-2011 I believe.
Can any KNOWLEDGABLE member please confirm this? That was the original question in fact.
Dealer 1 says they drained the oil originally and it was clean - however there are metal chunks in the oil pickup and motor is locked for unknown reasons.
Dealer 2 says they cannot put in a used engine - just a brand new one for 22K. Suggests I find a used engine and swap it out from a junkyard.
MBUSA is DONE WITH ME. They will not help any more - as my car has high mileage. So only option I have is to find another engine.
Dealer #2 says its same block and heads as any 272 e350 or ML350. Since I have a shop, he said unofficially, you can swap easily. Just keep from your engine whatever s different on the surface like the oil pan etc.
Any 272 engine 2007-2011 I believe.
Can any KNOWLEDGABLE member please confirm this? That was the original question in fact.
Last edited by mobinakhtar; Feb 10, 2016 at 11:42 AM. Reason: misssed something
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Thread Starter
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Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Houston, TX
MY2004 E320
Dealer 1 now comes clean.
They have few pictures. I am trying to get them. They tell me they talked to MBUSA and MB refused to help due to mileage (80464 Miles). If I get these pictures, I will share on the board. I personally did see them on the managers XENTRY system at the dealership. one shows oil a bit sludgy, the other shows extremely small pieces of metal in the oil-pickup.
Help is still needed in confirming if I can exchange with any 07-11 272 350 v6 engine. Can any knowledgable member pitch in here? Before I order one blindly following the service manager at Dealership 2's
"unofficial" recommendation?
Help is still needed in confirming if I can exchange with any 07-11 272 350 v6 engine. Can any knowledgable member pitch in here? Before I order one blindly following the service manager at Dealership 2's
"unofficial" recommendation?
Last edited by mobinakhtar; Feb 10, 2016 at 01:12 PM.
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2010 E350 4Matic
Thanks for all the replies - guys. Here is the latest update - Car is back at my shop with new hybrid battery.
Dealer 1 says they drained the oil originally and it was clean - however there are metal chunks in the oil pickup and motor is locked for unknown reasons.
Dealer 2 says they cannot put in a used engine - just a brand new one for 22K. Suggests I find a used engine and swap it out from a junkyard.
MBUSA is DONE WITH ME. They will not help any more - as my car has high mileage. So only option I have is to find another engine.
Dealer #2 says its same block and heads as any 272 e350 or ML350. Since I have a shop, he said unofficially, you can swap easily. Just keep from your engine whatever s different on the surface like the oil pan etc.
Any 272 engine 2007-2011 I believe.
Can any KNOWLEDGABLE member please confirm this? That was the original question in fact.
Dealer 1 says they drained the oil originally and it was clean - however there are metal chunks in the oil pickup and motor is locked for unknown reasons.
Dealer 2 says they cannot put in a used engine - just a brand new one for 22K. Suggests I find a used engine and swap it out from a junkyard.
MBUSA is DONE WITH ME. They will not help any more - as my car has high mileage. So only option I have is to find another engine.
Dealer #2 says its same block and heads as any 272 e350 or ML350. Since I have a shop, he said unofficially, you can swap easily. Just keep from your engine whatever s different on the surface like the oil pan etc.
Any 272 engine 2007-2011 I believe.
Can any KNOWLEDGABLE member please confirm this? That was the original question in fact.
http://www.emercedesbenz.com/autos/m...-suv-overview/
Does that preclude you from replacing it with one? I don't know but I would think that the electronic management system would not be programmed properly. I sincerely hope you can find your way out of this without any additional expense.
Last edited by MBNUT1; Feb 10, 2016 at 09:23 PM.
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From: Houston, TX
MY2004 E320
She's Alive!!!!!!
Finally, another 4K Later I am ale to rebuild the engine at my shop and she purrs like a kitten!!!!!
I am a bit disappointed though in the whole ordeal. I think there might be a 2014 S550 in my near future.....
For now, S400 is back to its glory with a new Hybrid battery and a freshly rebuilt engine.
I was never able to matchup a e350 engine to mine. Pistons looked different to me.
I am a bit disappointed though in the whole ordeal. I think there might be a 2014 S550 in my near future.....
For now, S400 is back to its glory with a new Hybrid battery and a freshly rebuilt engine.
I was never able to matchup a e350 engine to mine. Pistons looked different to me.
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CLS55 AMG
I don't think it was ever proven that anyone forgot to fill it with oil. OP can probably fill in some facts. If there is a shop that is willing to admit to that mistake, their liability insurer may cover the costs involved in the rebuild
