invitation for discussion " gray smoke from S600"
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 6
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From: Dubai
mercedes w221 s600 v12
invitation for discussion " gray smoke from S600"
Urgent - Gray smoke
Greeting !
i have Mercedes W221 S600 V12 with some problem which is :
1- gray smoke induction from tailpipe .
2- this gray smoke not appeared in cold start
3- this gray smoke not appeared while accelerating.
4-this gray smoke not appeared in Idle " even if the car kept running for 2 hrs, no smoke"
5- this gray smoke just appeared when intend to stop in traffic light or when i slow down to for turning left or right
6- this gray is not continous. just big blow off for couple of seconds and then disappear.
7- this gray smoke is comming from only one side (driver side tailpipe)
Actions done till now:
1- on the first time, found some yogurt in the engine cooling water tank. it is white yogurt with red oil which indicates that it is from tranny oil cooler. So, replaced engine cooling radiator, tranny oil cooler and water tank as well since it is soo contaminated. -----------> no improvement
2- replaced biturbo cooling water electrical pump which found damaged. -------> no improvement
3- changed all spark plugs ----> no improvement
4- i ask the tchnician to check transmission vacuum modelator valve and his answer was " in w221 cars, there is no transmission vacuum modelator valve "
5- turbo of driver side has been checked by disconnecting the upper hose from engine side and found some oil inside.
6- my technician told me that there is a pressure build up in the the engine lead to oil escape through the turbo and the problem is not from turbo sealing.
7- my technician told me that the pressure issue is from the piston rings.
8- i'm suspect of his diagnosis and my question is :
-- does PCV valve make this issue of gray smoke ? if yes, where is the PCV valve on v12 engines M275 ?
-- in my car w221 s600, is there a transmission vacuum modelator valve? if yes , where
i need your usual cooperation to guide me to the right diagnosis
thanks in advance
Greeting !
i have Mercedes W221 S600 V12 with some problem which is :
1- gray smoke induction from tailpipe .
2- this gray smoke not appeared in cold start
3- this gray smoke not appeared while accelerating.
4-this gray smoke not appeared in Idle " even if the car kept running for 2 hrs, no smoke"
5- this gray smoke just appeared when intend to stop in traffic light or when i slow down to for turning left or right
6- this gray is not continous. just big blow off for couple of seconds and then disappear.
7- this gray smoke is comming from only one side (driver side tailpipe)
Actions done till now:
1- on the first time, found some yogurt in the engine cooling water tank. it is white yogurt with red oil which indicates that it is from tranny oil cooler. So, replaced engine cooling radiator, tranny oil cooler and water tank as well since it is soo contaminated. -----------> no improvement
2- replaced biturbo cooling water electrical pump which found damaged. -------> no improvement
3- changed all spark plugs ----> no improvement
4- i ask the tchnician to check transmission vacuum modelator valve and his answer was " in w221 cars, there is no transmission vacuum modelator valve "
5- turbo of driver side has been checked by disconnecting the upper hose from engine side and found some oil inside.
6- my technician told me that there is a pressure build up in the the engine lead to oil escape through the turbo and the problem is not from turbo sealing.
7- my technician told me that the pressure issue is from the piston rings.
8- i'm suspect of his diagnosis and my question is :
-- does PCV valve make this issue of gray smoke ? if yes, where is the PCV valve on v12 engines M275 ?
-- in my car w221 s600, is there a transmission vacuum modelator valve? if yes , where
i need your usual cooperation to guide me to the right diagnosis
thanks in advance
Last edited by Harbi; Sep 13, 2016 at 11:20 AM. Reason: spilling correction
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,268
Likes: 253
Question is- what fluid is your car using up? Oil? Coolant? It is most likely not tranny fluid despite its appearance.
My guess is your engine has overheated in the past and now you have a cracked/ warped head and you are using coolant. The v12tt motor runs very hot by default and your weather and broken ic pump only made things worse.
It is consistent with your symptoms on blowing puffs of smoke when slowing down as well as mixing oil and coolant.
Btw, having some oil in the turbo inlets is ok...
My guess is your engine has overheated in the past and now you have a cracked/ warped head and you are using coolant. The v12tt motor runs very hot by default and your weather and broken ic pump only made things worse.
It is consistent with your symptoms on blowing puffs of smoke when slowing down as well as mixing oil and coolant.
Btw, having some oil in the turbo inlets is ok...
Last edited by alx; Sep 13, 2016 at 11:19 PM.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Dubai
mercedes w221 s600 v12
Question is- what fluid is your car using up? Oil? Coolant? It is most likely not tranny fluid despite its appearance.
My guess is your engine has overheated in the past and now you have a cracked/ warped head and you are using coolant. The v12tt motor runs very hot by default and your weather and broken ic pump only made things worse.
It is consistent with your symptoms on blowing puffs of smoke when slowing down as well as mixing oil and coolant.
Btw, having some oil in the turbo inlets is ok...
My guess is your engine has overheated in the past and now you have a cracked/ warped head and you are using coolant. The v12tt motor runs very hot by default and your weather and broken ic pump only made things worse.
It is consistent with your symptoms on blowing puffs of smoke when slowing down as well as mixing oil and coolant.
Btw, having some oil in the turbo inlets is ok...
My car got overheated last year due to cooling fan failure.
But for your kind information, yoghurt found in the coolant tank was surrounded by red oil ... and the only red fluid in my car is tranny oil .. is there any possibility for engine oil to be red colored in this case?
Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 76
Likes: 7
From: Oslo, Norway
1998 C140 CL500
it has not come back. So lets leave the red oil out of the question.
Now, even though you might have an leak of coolant into cylinders/oil,
does not mean that you have a leak of engine oil into the coolant.
But, if its actually a leak of coolant into cylinder, then most likely,
the cylinder action is also pressurizing the coolant system. Do you
have any symptoms of smoke in the coolant?
For coolant into oil, do you have any white buildup in the oil
on the affected side (the head)?
As of piston rings or not, I think the best indication
would be to find out if the smoke contains oil or not.
(Well, all in all, I'm just a desk mechanic, so take might suggestions
for what its worth...)
http://repairpal.com/what-does-the-s...tail-pipe-mean
br,
syljua
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Dubai
mercedes w221 s600 v12
the answer is : NO. i have checked the engine oil cap and looked inside the engine. no symptoms of any white color
for your update, radiator has been replaced last month and yesterday i've that coolant level alaram presented in the dashboard. when i checked the level, i found it lower than before and the water in not clear (light oily gray) but not yogurt .
i convinced my self that coolant is not clear due to remaining old oil mixed issue. on the other hand, big question formed in my head " why the coolant level get dropped down?"
do you recommended for me to use "Head Gasket & Cooling Sealant fluids" as a trial?
Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 76
Likes: 7
From: Oslo, Norway
1998 C140 CL500
I think you're left hand drive in Dubai? If so, coolant in oil would
manifest itself inside the cylinder bank on the driver side.
The oil cap is on the passenger side (bank) of the engine.
I understand its more difficult to check the drivers side, and
I guess its not strictly needed, as it seems like you confirm that
you're loosing coolant below.
for your update, radiator has been replaced last month and yesterday i've that coolant level alaram presented in the dashboard. when i checked the level, i found it lower than before and the water in not clear (light oily gray) but not yogurt .
i convinced my self that coolant is not clear due to remaining old oil mixed issue. on the other hand, big question formed in my head " why the coolant level get dropped down?"
i convinced my self that coolant is not clear due to remaining old oil mixed issue. on the other hand, big question formed in my head " why the coolant level get dropped down?"
to be a part of the combustion, leading to grey smoke.
That leak of coolant into the cylinder, is most probably because you
have a leaking head gasket.
probably just contaminate the whole coolant circuit.
br,
syljua
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Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 76
Likes: 7
From: Oslo, Norway
1998 C140 CL500
centrifugal oil separator (removing oil fumes from the crank case air).
If not working, I think it would "inject" air with excessive oil vapor
in it into the turbo, but that would be blue/black smoke.
Read more about the M275 (well, really the Maybach M285, but they are ~ equal) here;
https://web.archive.org/web/20060110...2008-06-03.pdf
In that same presentation, you will also see some of the things
they did to the divider between cylinders to allow coolant to flow.
And as you can see, the distance between some of the coolant passages
and the cylinder is not great, giving the gasket a pretty though job to
keep them separated...
br,
syljua
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Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Dubai
mercedes w221 s600 v12
The part shown, is the pressure regulator for the
centrifugal oil separator (removing oil fumes from the crank case air).
If not working, I think it would "inject" air with excessive oil vapor
in it into the turbo, but that would be blue/black smoke.
Read more about the M275 (well, really the Maybach M285, but they are ~ equal) here;
https://web.archive.org/web/20060110...2008-06-03.pdf
In that same presentation, you will also see some of the things
they did to the divider between cylinders to allow coolant to flow.
And as you can see, the distance between some of the coolant passages
and the cylinder is not great, giving the gasket a pretty though job to
keep them separated...
br,
syljua
centrifugal oil separator (removing oil fumes from the crank case air).
If not working, I think it would "inject" air with excessive oil vapor
in it into the turbo, but that would be blue/black smoke.
Read more about the M275 (well, really the Maybach M285, but they are ~ equal) here;
https://web.archive.org/web/20060110...2008-06-03.pdf
In that same presentation, you will also see some of the things
they did to the divider between cylinders to allow coolant to flow.
And as you can see, the distance between some of the coolant passages
and the cylinder is not great, giving the gasket a pretty though job to
keep them separated...
br,
syljua
Really appreciated your efforts and cooperation.
which method is more garanteed . overhaul the current engine or swap with used low milage one ??
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 4,242
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From: Chicago burbs
2015 S550
If the overhaul is done right by somebody who knows what they're doing, it would obviously make more sense than buying a lower mileage engine where you have no clue what you're getting....especially if money were even or close to it.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,691
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W221 S600, W220 S55 AMG Kompressor, W124 300E, W140 S320, W210 E3204M W164 ML320 Bluetec
The only time I have noted a fuel smell and smoke was when I start the car to move it a short distance and turn it off for several hours. When it is started, say 5 hours later, it will smoke litely and smell very right, but it goes away get soon. I use the recommended Motor 1 Oil and recommended changes.
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S350 BT 4MATIC
