I took the S600 in to a local independent repair shop specializing in Mercedes and other Euro cars. Everyone — and I do mean everyone – that I asked told me that these were THE guys to go to with problems. I had a few nagging little things wrong that I didn’t feel like fixing myself, so I took it in with a laundry list of stuff to look at. The car would frequently dump some coolant on the driveway overnight after being driven, for example. I have a persistent problem with the #9 fuel injector being clogged or sticky, which had me chasing non-existent ignition issues for months. The ride is harsher than it should be. The A/C doesn’t work for the first 5-10 minutes on a hot day, again only when you drive it for the first time before it’s warmed up. And finally, the transmission shifts from 1-2 and 2-3 are very harsh, but only when the car is cold — after a few minutes of driving, it’s smooth as silk.

Like I said, these are mostly little things. I know the suspension issue needs attention before I start blowing ABC lines, so that's about the most urgent. The coolant thing is a major annoyance, but as noted it never happens when driving -- only when it sits overnight AFTER having been driven.

After a week I got a call from the mechanic with their quote to sort out everything. It was (I swear I’m not making this up) $14,319.86. Fourteen grand and change. I had to laugh. I picked up the car, paid them for a couple hours of shop labor to do the diagnosis, and went through their estimate line by line. It's bloody astonishing. The markup on parts alone would be a few thousand of that number, and over half is for work that doesn't even need to be done.

I broke down the stuff on my blog (see it here), and will keep it updated as I do the work that is needed. Saturday my son and I knocked out the rear brakes, at a total cost of $188 (including shipping and tax) and three hours of our time. I've got parts coming in this week to do most of the rest, and a service bay with a lift reserved for this coming weekend.

 

It's shocking the shop is trying to earn a living from "the S600". They mark up parts: normal. They charge for labor: normal. MB parts can be expensive: normal. It's awesome that you can DIY on some things.......but........the business is in business.

 

You know Daleb...... Some shops also do it to scare the customer. I have talked to some shop owners that have confessed to doing that when they do not want to deal with the car. Why? I don't know!

 

I certainly don't begrudge anyone making a living. Their shop labor rate is not out of line at $117 per hour. I also won't ever complain about a reasonable markup on parts... they've got to cover their cost of money, inventory storage space, all that stuff. But the LOWEST markup I found on any part in the list was about 33% over full retail parts counter price at a Mercedes-Benz dealer. The worst of it (before I stopped even bothering to look) was marked up over 75%, and that was on a fairly expensive part. And that's not on cheap little parts, either. Mercedes parts are not, with a few notable exceptions, all that expensive compared to other cars. Quite reasonable in most cases.

I'd gladly pay a shop to do the work... if I could find one locally that I could trust to do it without trying to bill $14K for what I would reasonably expect to pay about $3K-$4K for. Hell, over $4K of this estimate was to replace the coil packs and plugs -- which I just did a couple of months ago, and which are working just fine, thanks very much. $1,036 markup on those parts alone.

 

They seemed a little surprised when I picked up the car... guess they figured I'd just write the check.

So this weekend I'll replace both ABC accumulators and the pulsation damper. I can't see any leaks anywhere near the pump, but hey -- maybe that's what he was looking for when he either disconnected or broke my washer pump. It hasn't lost any ABC fluid in the past six months or so, so it if it leaking it's not too bad yet. Rear brakes are done. I'm arranging to have another shop replace the A/C suction line (78% markup they had on that part, BTW) that's the probable cause of the A/C issue; we'll leave the compressor (57% markup) alone for now.

 

I was just reading through your blog and you mentioned collapsed AC suction hose is a common issue. I have the same delayed AC symptoms you do. I haven't read about the hose being a common issue. Would you mind elaborating or pointing me to a link? No AC for a few minutes is getting frustrating!

 

Naturally I can't find it now, but... there's a TSB out about it. Plastic liner inside the low-pressure AC hose can separate from the outer hose, collapsing and blocking the refrigerant flow. I don't KNOW that this is the problem; I'm not an AC expert by any means. I don't have gauges to hook up when the problem occurs, and of course by the time I drive it somewhere it's working fine. It has to sit overnight, and for enough of the day to get really HOT. Then you have a five to ten minute window while it's misbehaving. On cooler days or if it's been driven within the past several hours, it doesn't happen. Shop says it's likely the compressor or that hose. Given that it works 99% of the time, and when it's not working I can still see the clutch engaged and the compressor spinning, I'm thinking the hose is a safer bet. I'm not equipped to do it myself.

Probably the least of the problems I'm chasing, so if I can get it fixed, great -- if not, I'll put up with it.

 

I disagree about the parts markup being normal. They buy parts at wholesale and should be marked up to mercedes retail, although a lot of independent shops will offer a discount on genuine parts, and will often offer to use "non-genuine" parts from Mercedes suppliers at a substantially reduced price. I have never heard of an independent shop charging above retail before.

The charge for labor actually seems low compared to what is charged near me.

 

The local dealer charges $165 per hour. I pretty much never have work done on any of my vehicles other than under warranty or things like tires, where you're paying a flat rate for a simple job. We just don't have things that need to be fixed that often. I didn't think the labor rate was out of line at all, these guys have an excellent reputation and they seem to know their stuff for the most part. But as you said, I'd expect to pay retail or slightly over for parts.

 

No surprise probably, but this is yet another demonstration of the reasons behind the astounding depreciation suffered by 12 cylinder Mercedes and BMW. Best owned in post warranty years only by factory trained mechanics it’s often said. Great ownership opportunity for anyone ... if they can handle it. Wonderful cars ... and pay to play.

 

Exactly. If you want to own one of these, I'd say either be prepared to work on it yourself -- or make sure you have a prepaid maintenance agreement (the so-called "extended warranty") that will actually cover the more spendy bits. When I bought this one I looked into several different extended warranties. Most weren't available due to the age of the car; one or two specifically excluded hydraulic suspension problems and/or electronic parts. I'd consider that to be a show-stopper. These things don't break connecting rods or shell rear ends, it's the ABC and ABS and the coil packs and so on.

Awesome cars, and I'm not sorry I bought it (though I would have gone a different route with the benefit of hindsight). It's worth the hassle. If I were not able to work on it myself... probably not so much.

 

I would probably echo everything above, and I haven't even done that much to mine. Replaced a couple lower control arms, the pulsation damper and changed the Pentosin in the ABC suspension along with a few filters and oil changes....
So far, all work has been done by myself with some friendly help and I have the SDS, but I can see where this car could get stupid expensive from what I hear and what I read here. Just the other day, my dynamic seat decided to no longer function. Checked it with Star. Yessir, module likely defective. I haven't dug any deeper but what could have happened in the last week? It sat in the garage most of the time!

 

Electrical connectors oxidize
Air lines crack
Rubber degrades and leaks
Air compressors seize up
Mice, squirrels, gremlins, elves, fairies, poltergeists, leprechauns...

 

Today I fixed the cooling system problem -- the one for which the shop proposed removing the left side turbo and replacing the stainless steel hard coolant lines. Twice, a it turns out from re-reading the estimate -- there are two coolant lines, and they had four different part numbers listed for some reason. Anyway, it did turn out to be nothing more than the O-ring on one of the coolant lines, as I thought it might be. There was a notable leak when I vacuum tested the system; after I replaced the part it's air tight with no leaks at all.

Shop estimate to repair cooling system: $3281.23
Parts cost: $7.88
Tools & Materials: $101
Shop time (service bay rental): $120.00
Total spent: $228.88
Total Saved: $3,052.35

And that includes the , which I'll no doubt use many more times. The full story is http://dale.botkin.org/2020/08/16/cooling-system/ (blog post).

I also did most of the ABC work today, but it isn't quite finished so I'll post more about that later.

 

Very nice works. Curious, did the coolant system fill test kit helped you to locate the bad o-ring? Or how did you figured out the location of the bad o-ring? Sounds like needles in the haystack.

 

That's impressive mate, nice job. Many of us wish we were handy too

 

No, I had seen that when I replaced the coil packs a few months ago. I knew it was seeping a little bit, but it has apparently gotten quite a bit worse. I even had the part, it's an oddball non-standard size O-ring. I had tried to replace it before, but wasn't able to get enough movement on that coolant line to get in there without disconnecting another coolant line that would drain the intercooler circuit, and I know what a pain in the *** THAT is. This time I decided that there really was no choice, I can't just keep dumping coolant in there and letting it blow all over the bottom of the car. If I had skinny little girly hands it would have been a lot quicker and easier, but I've got to try to shove my XXL boxing gloves in there...

The vacuum tester will tell you if you HAVE a leak, but not where it is.
It's weird. My Dad was a mechanical engineer and his Dad owned a garage and worked as a mechanic much of his life. When I was growing up, Dad had me doing the oil changes and winter/summer tire swaps on our cars by the time I was in junior high. I never did learn much about the internals until much, much later... but I've always done all of the routine maintenance on our vehicles. Now I'm more than willing to let someone else do the work. I fully support someone making a living, but holy crap... not a fortune, at least not on one job.

Just an example. I took my F150 to an oil change place for an oil change a couple of times. For $70 they put in non-synthetic oil and a cheap oil filter, and it took maybe 10 minutes tops. I can do a complete oil change at home for about half that, but using full synthetic and a premium oil filter -- and I'm buying retail. The shop wanted to charge just barely under $250 for an oil change. For an oil change. Really? I mean, come on. I take pride in my vehicles. I do not take pride in bragging about how much I pay to keep them running. "If you have to ask, you can't afford it" is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. In my humble opinion, if you don't ask, you're not too bright.

OK, end of rant. There are lots of ways to learn this stuff. Friends or relatives are a good way. YouTube videos CAN be... of course any idiot can post anything to YT, and a lot of idiots do. But if you look through this forum, you'll see a number of posts by user @39039 that are really good examples of how to do basic preventive and even corrective maintenance yourself. These cars are generally not at all difficult to work on -- no more so than any other, and certainly less than many. Of the three vehicles I own, the S600 is hands down the easiest one to do an oil change. I changed out the ABS accumulators yesterday. As part of that I had to remove the driver side exhaust. Horrible job, right? No, not at all. Half a dozen bolts (NONE of which were seized or rusted solid) and everything just came right out, and went back in just as easily. It really is a great car to work on.

 

Do you have the part number or a diagram of that cooling circuit? I'm interested in understanding on the phenomenon of dumping coolant when cold.
Totally agree with you on self maintenance. I ran into couple issues with works from dealership: a V8 engine oil filter on a V12 (no filtering for >5000 miles); missing brake lid cap after brake flush service (discovered after 3month so it needs another flush). If you don't look at it once in a while you will just never know.

 

My theory is that, as the engine cooled down, it allowed air to be sucked into the system. Now you've got air in the cooling system that expands and causes numerous problems. I cannot quite understand why, though, it ONLY dumps coolant (in volume) overnight... that part is just plain weird. But by all evidence, it was indeed leaking coolant while driving -- although it wasn't enough for me to notice other then when it would dump it overnight. It's the oddest cooling system problem I've ever dealt with. Everything makes sense except the one big symptom... and I'd love to fully understand that one.

 

Sounds like you are doing coil packs on the same side as the leak. Wonder if leaked air caused CEL misfired when coil packs isn't 100%.

 

The W221 V12 platform is worth love and maintenance. If both are lavished upon an S Class, it will last a lifetime and give countless hours of pleasure.

It is unfortunate the shop tried to take advantage of you. And the work you do yourself is always the better quality.

 

Way to go DaleB. Hopefully you celebrated your great work with your favorite cold beverage.And 3k savings should make you grin,especially if you drive by the robber baron indie. Might be worth a stop in and see the look on their face when you tell them the story. Thanks for sharing.

 

No, I replaced the coil packs a few months back. The driver side was in pretty good shape, the passenger side showed some corrosion around the plugs. Something had gotten down in there, maybe coolant long before I bought it. Plus, the passenger side valve cover gasket had been leaking oil down into the plug recesses. Anyway, diagnostics pointed to the coil packs, so I bought a couple of rebuilts from V12ICPack.com -- the guy seems to know his stuff. I figured even if the coil packs were not causing that problem, it was only a matter of time before they had to be replaced. They're not known for longevity, I guess. But you have to remove the coil pack to get to that stupid little O-ring.
Oh, I don't know that they were trying to take advantage, any more than they would anyone else with a high end German sedan. I think they just have a markup on parts that is well beyond what I want to pay. That, and the didn't pay much attention to what I specifically told them I wanted done.
Nah. I'm not going to do that. I asked, they estimated, I'm free to have the work done there or not. I do appreciate their time and analysis of a couple of things, like the ABC system. I got what I paid them for, we're good. And they're really great guys to deal with.

I did have that nice cold drink, though. I felt I'd earned it.

While working on the car, though, I did notice that the front brakes were worn well beyond where the rears were. I could maybe get another few thousand miles on them, but not many -- and we're about to start a 2-3K mile road trip. I picked up new rotors and Akebono Euro pads today, I'll swap out the front brakes tomorrow after work when I finish up the ABC and put everything back together. Then we'll see if my fuel injector work pays off or what. Cylinder 9 has been consistently the problem child. I pulled the #8 and #9 injectors, but as I don't have a test rig there wasn't much I could do. I ran them both in a ultrasonic cleaner for about 20 minutes and put them back in swapped around. One of three things will happen...

1.) The whole problem goes away, I'm happy, and it was just a dirty injector.
2.) The problem moves to cylinder #8, and I know for certain that I have one bad injector.
3.) The problem remains with cylinder #9, and I know for certain I have a bad coil pack, which is still under warranty.

Now I wish I'd thought to swap the plugs between #9 and #10, just to eliminate those as well. I suppose it's possible for a new spark plug to be bad, though I haven't seen it happen in about <mumble mumble> years of driving and maintaining cars, motorcycles, lawn implements, and the occasional airplane.

 

Last night I replaced the front brakes and finished the ABC work. The rear accumulator didn't seem to be bad, though I'm not entirely sure how one could tell... but when I took it out, there was only an ounce or so of hydraulic oil in it. The front accumulator, on the other hand, was completely FULL of fluid. I'm pretty sure the membrane was gone. The car rides like it should now.

The front brakes rotors were badly worn. The pads were actually in great shape, with lots of material left. It didn't LOOK like it when I inspected, because there was such a big ridge around the edge of the rotor that it covered up about half the pad thickness. Apparently, the last time the car was serviced (by a M-B dealer, no less) they replaced the pads but not the rotors. Not the route I would have taken at all. I mean, these things were pretty badly worn. But, now I've got fresh brakes all around, and hopefully no more dense black brake dust everywhere from the semi-metallic pads. Total cost: $167.75 for parts, and I guess you could include $40 or so for the service bay rental since I did it there.

Total saved on ABC: I guess it depends on your point of view. I didn't replace the pump, and won't unless it gets much worse. Shop quoted $3612 for everything. I spent a total of $717, including the service bay rental and five liters of fluid that I actually ended up not even opening. I'll use it for the next ABC system flush. But to be fair, subtract what they were going to charge for the pump. Basically, I think I saved about $250 worth of markup they would have added onto the parts, plus 7.5 hours labor.

 

Based of the markup on parts, your local Mercedes dealer might offer to the entire job for less than the price of indy. A dealer will NEVER charge you more than full retail for parts and sometimes will give a discount on parts.

The one outrageous charge from a local dealer was $200 for labor to replace the starter battery under the hood of my car in addition to the cost of the battery. I drove one block away and called Mercedes roadside assistance. They sent out a mechanic from the same dealer with a battery and installed it with no labor charge, only the same retail price quoted at the dealer. Roadside assistance is free if you are the original owner of your vehicle, but for newer vehicles it is free only during the 4 year new car vehicle warranty.