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So I tried again this afternoon after charging the car (rear battery all night) sadly it also failed. I have a more powerful (50amp) charger coming tomorrow as my current is 5amp. I’m currently charging the bonnet battery to see if that helps...
At the same time I tried to use Vediamo, but it also fails showing ecu contact has broken off.
I tried to look for the current firmware, but can’t find so I used the update on vediamo.
BOTUS - 14.2v, I’m assuming not with the engine running? My charger puts out 13.6? Do they have special chargers?
Ninja - all accessories off. Will try your suggestion to see if charger is useless.
but listen, you can have the engine on with updating telematics
just leave the engine running
Zainie, I often ignore the precise instructions but this one from DAS may be more important:
DAS says to connect charger to the (+) threaded post (under the black cover next to the fender) and "-" to the negative post on the starter battery. Best I can tell, this is the correct way to charge your batteries (both). And, here's what fully charged batteries look like, at least with my automatic charger.
Since your Telematics update-- a long duration update, DAS estimate= about 1 hour-- went through, one would guess, the 5 minute ABR update should have gone through unless your batteries were flat or not charged "enough". I agree with Ninja that even a small charger should suffice for updating w/o the engine running. I updated Telematics with a starting voltage of 12.9, and 12.8 after 50 minutes at about 8 amps input.
when I have done map updates (3 times over the years) which needs the key on for 47mins (I have ignored the user instructions to do with the engine running) and instead charged the car for 24 hrs, then put my charger to flat out (its only a baby one) at 3.6 amps.... it depletes the battery and just copes. So 8 amp must be a better place!
as I said the garage have a snap on 60 amp stabiliser and hold it at 14.6 v and their online Xentry kit does as you wrote, stating to pull that fuse cover and connect the power to that +12V terminal (on the early cars - if you connect both direct to the battery, the diagnostic knows and refuses to programme)
an Indy garage measured current draw on his fully loaded S class, like mine they both draw 37 amps with the key in the run position... so 8 amps must be close to catastrophe !!!
I have used your picture to connect another running car to ensure consistent voltage. Rerun flash in das (failed) run flash in Vediamo with old firmware file (failed) run flash in Vediamo with same firmware file (failed) I have tried a few SDFLASH databases as well but only finding the same software.
looking through both das and Vediamo I have a 20070 error. God knows what it means.
I have the feeling that I am making a mistake using openport rather than an actual multiplexer. Other issues have become more relevant. The software doesn’t recognise ignition off and one, I get various Xentry Framework not found errors, ect.Everything else is working fine, but looking through the history, I updated telematics (success) updated SGR Radar (success), Updated SGR Radar again (success), updated DTR (Failed), updated ABR (failed) updated rear sam (failed) all of these apart from DTR are working properly. The car remembers it has DTR and shows the symbol at ignition, but it disappears within seconds of engine on. Park sensors ect are working fine.
the DTR module is accessible and from what I can tell isn’t bricked, it’s in boot loader mode. I can see various data on the unit, such as software. This gives me hope that with the correct hardware and online coding, it will be restored.
so I have booked in with a specialist who is going to skip all the expensive faf, and do a straight online initialisation and update of the module. This should be on Tuesday, so will update more then. He will charge Ł20 to connect up and try, and Ł30 additional if successful which seems fair. The other option was a Mercedes dealer who wanted Ł99 (which also seemed fair) other independent specialists had no idea what I was talking about and one of the recommended modification providers wanted Ł199 to diagnose and Ł229 to flash!
as another panic induced stupid decision, I have purchased a replacement Radar which should arrive on Wednesday for a very reasonable price. But I think this is for a CLS as the part number is A230 and I remember my CLS had a A230 part number for the sensor. Does anyone know what the difference is? The continental temac number is 1 digit different?
so more updates in the week, and a wholly expensive lesson learnt.
you shouldn't attempt to flash any car without a multiplexer... multiple comms to different systems at the same time is a basic part of the routine for most stuff
BOTUS, after almost six years, I still don't understand the 221's battery management system. My vehicle mostly sits in the garage, so I routinely charge the batteries. Connecting to the starter battery seems to charge both batteries... When Ignition Is Off. Ignition ON, seems to change that... I just don't know exactly how or what...
And, correction to my post # 57. The correct charging post, under the black cover, is Not threaded as I stated. It's the gold, smooth, high post furthest from the firewall. (You would think I would have noticed that, having used it like 1000 times...)
On the amperage requirements, like you, before I updated Telematics, I loaded and reloaded the Navi DVD at least half-a-dozen times trying to get it to work correctly. IIRC, I had ignition ON for several hours with a 12A-rated charger (China rating, so who knows) and, the LED was never more than 9 amps and voltage never got below 12.6V. But, I agree an 8 amp charger is marginal beyond a couple of hours or so and anything less, if we believe the MB engineers, may "hurt" something. See, DAS "Note" in bold below:
So, I should retract my statement that the need for a 30-40 amp charger is "BS". It's not, if you intend to have the ignition on all-day-long... Otherwise, start with a full charge and plan ahead!
Zainie, sorry to hear things have not gotten sorted. It doesn't sound like you've "bricked" anything and I'm not familiar with the equipment you are using. (BTW, I'm using a multiplexer and an old Dell.) But, since I started this "barbeque", I was wondering if you can see what CFF's are failing to load???
As shown in the pic above, my ABR wants to update to 2219029502 from a 221442**** file, which is in ESP, and I tell it "NO".
The only 221******* CFF's for DTR are:
2214420956 & 2214420556, but there are 000902**** (i.e. newer) CFF's in the DTR folder.
I doubt if this helps, but I'm wondering if the sequence of the updates made an difference with the passthroughs you are using????
Recall, I stopped all updating after I updated AAC to a 221902 and saw no difference. I especially don't want to screw with Distronics, which seems to work pretty good as is. I might try the seats, etc., on my "garage queen", when I get bored. I'll also check the motor and tranny, but won't proceed w/o checking here for guidance. Besides BOTUS, I've searched the forum and found other posts by people not happy with dealer/MB updates...
there's a variance between cars depending on age / electrical system
early ones like mine there is NO brass earth post 6" in front of the battery,
remove the plastic cover to pre fuse box under the bonnet and connect Positive to F2 (??? its snowing so can't go visually match up) the positive terminal used is right beside the wing and you need to insulate the wing to stop a short. The Negative on early cars goes to the battery. Online Xentry knows when the power stabiliser is connected the approved way. And as I mentioned it will NOT programme if you go direct to the battery terminals (it knows where the power is going in)
Prefuse Box in the Engine Bay – F32/3 FuseAmpere RatingDesignation F2 400 Alternator F3 150 Electrohydraulic Power Steering A91/1 or glow time out put stage N14/3 F4 Nofuse Interior prefuse box F32/4 F5 100 AAC with integrated control additional fan motor M4/7 F6 150 Front SAM control unit with fuse. Relay module N10/1 F7 40 ESP Control Unit, Brake System F8 25 ESP Control Unit, Brake System N30/6 F9 30 Front SAM control unit N10/1 F10 – Not used
Later cars (like most modern ones, now have a dedicated connections (for power supply, charging or jump start) you NEVER connect direct to the battery on cars post 2007
I charge my car via the rear battery, going to positive and body earth, done it like that for 6 years its happy....
BOTUS mine is a 2007, I have the post so used that. Voltage display showed it working,..
Mark, don’t worry lol, you’re not responsible for the barbecue, I’ve been meaning to try for a while, and god knows I’ve got time on my hands.
I have 0956 in the folder. The failed printout shows upgrading from 0456 to 0956 so I found both CFFs and tried that.
I can’t see a 0556, if you can, could you upload it somewhere for me to try?
although I do agree with everyone above, I think my stupid passthrough device is the problem. If I think about it, the Critical Updates (Distronic, Rear Sam, Front Sam) have all failed but the non critical (telematics, although it uses a disk, SDR) so I’m assuming something is stopping the car from using the stupid passthrough.
ive heard about DJ-Security-Access through Vediamo but it always fails, which is what makes me think that the issue is the passthrough.
if the professional with the C4 manages to fix it on Tuesday, I may go and buy a C4 just so I know I’m not gonna do something stupid again.
Thanks BOTUS... Here's F32 in Starfinder and the charging post we are talking about (cover off):
Sorry about your snow... 22C here tonight...
Zainie, sent you a PM.
"Barbeque" was a poor chose of words, given the context. In Texas, "barbeque" is also synonymous with "Big-*** Party"; which is more along the lines of what I meant...
When I went to look for the 0556 file, I thought I must have misspoken. But, no, 2214420956 & 2214420556 are there; in SDflash 2008-10. What's weird is, 0556 is newer than 0956-- by one day! (Open in Wordpad and you'll see...)
0556 is not present in my SDflash folders after 2008 but 0956 is in all and 2014 has some 000902**** files... Strange...
In my very boring experiments in this thread, I've been trying to find a way to do reverse programming with DAS. No success but, was thinking about changing the date in the CFF-- like I did in part 5C in post # 1 for the SDflash files. Now, seeing two CFF's with a date difference of one day, I'm wondering if someone (maybe even MB engineers) did something like that already???
I went into the specialist on teusday and they couldn’t find the car in das, it was listing only the facelift models, so couldn’t do anything.
I booked in with another specialist this morning to try again. They tried three times but every single time the flash failed. They did manage to update the ABR and Rear Sam. Another Ł72 down the drain. And the official verdict was to buy a new sensor.
I looked on eBay and say a a221 part for Ł202 and checked out the part number. I noticed that this one had the continental part number 00007478b5 and the original was 00007478b2. And remembered that I have the CLS sensor which I haven’t tried 00007476B0
when I got home I decided to give the CLS sensor a try, because what’s the worst that could happen. I used start to initial startup, and to my shock, Distronic was fully working again. I don’t even know how. But I covered 25 miles and it’s been working fully, all the way down to zero. So it turns out that the sensor A230 works as long as it’s a continental Temac with the ars210 (ars-c.) so problem solved (Yay)
lesson learned. Never flash a module with a passthrough device, especially a Chinese one.
now I’ve started to do the ambient lighting upgrade, managed to finish the front doors today.
one question (on topic) is I’ve noticed that the music no longer muted for a navigation instruction? Anyone know why and how to fix?
P.S - Mark, I formally declare this barbecue over.
So, Zainie, if I'm getting this correctly, your forward radar sensor (Distronic/DTR) got "bricked" when you tried to update? More specifically, I'm assuming the control module is built into the radar unit behind the front grill and it was damaged. Again, see the DAS warning for ABR:
"Note: Failure to observe instructions may result in irreparable damage to control units."
I never take that sh## seriously. But, maybe we should... Voltage and connection MAY be THAT important after all, if your expensive lesson tells us anything... Thanks for sharing...
Put another way, the outdated Xentry/DAS/Dell/XP is a really stable platform. Hard-wired, no wireless connection and even laptop battery backup, make it pretty hard to screw up... A "dry-run" of charger/battery capacity, with ignition on, may be good insurance to make sure the car battery can handle it (not that that's what happened to you).
Finally, on the music muting, BOTUS has written extensively on the issue in this thread. IIRC, his solution was even more updates.
"Barbecue" over??? In Texas, we have another saying, "It ain't a Party until something gets broke!" Congrats...
Bricking any module is the same as for any firmware running device
Your device will get bricked only if the boot section gets corrupt, this makes flashing connection impossible
then, I recently had a couple of modules like rear sam, that had only one window working.
I developed a exclusive new method to force Xentry to reflash it completely as vediamo flashing doesn't help
this method repairs 70% of the modules people normally junk as they suppose the device is faulty and you can not directly reflash if the partially corrupt firmware is latest
I understand this is your hobby, but it can become a expensive hobby
Question: since we are back to battery voltage, does anyone see a problem if you have enough charging capacity to keep system voltage above about 12.6V (engine off)? I can maintain that voltage, or more, for Hours with a 12A-rated charger. Engine running is not practical in my climate-controlled garage...
one question (on topic) is I’ve noticed that the music no longer muted for a navigation instruction? Anyone know why and how to fix?
P.S - Mark, I formally declare this barbecue over.
That is the very bug I've been chasing for 2 years - ever since merc said to put that 902 rubbish on the Rear SAM - I sure its that f***ing rear SAM update it just isn't suitable and Mercedes are incompetent fools or JUST criminals doing it on purpose
its a shame u didn't read the post before getting stuck in and wrecking the car - I explained NOT to do the very updates you did
We had done a Front SAM update for reliability / diagnostic improvements. Then Germany's servers died under the strain before we could do any further stuff. They'd done a major update over Christmas and killed it. So all worldwide dealers were off line for 2 weeks and we so happened to have mine booked in the first day back after they had got going again. With half the world trying to get customer cars sorted, it couldn't cope and we couldn't do any more. 3 Months on car plugged back in and Merc identified "non compatible software" in the Rear SAM
That's absolute rubbish, it means they want you to update (maybe for a good reason... trouble is they don't give the update that you need), they force on facelift stuff and bits in the comand no longer work - which after LOTS of fun we haven't fixed. Its small but it irritates me as everything related to subtle vols tweaks the car managed perfectly before is worse since the Rear Sam was updated
The car was built with 3 THREE separate ideas for speed dependant vol adjustment and to allow TMC or NAV voice overlay. Post update instead of beautifully linear imperceptible change in vol with speed / ambient noise. Its now jerky noticeable incompetent steps. And there is no longer the perfect fade of the sound source to allow the Nav instructions to be heard. TMC is OK as handled within the TTU. But the Nav overlay starts life in the Comand and source mute to let you hear gets killed with a software update.
After swapping out the COU back to the original software and realising the SCM is unflashable, reflashing the TTU and checking for coding choices in the TTU and Comand, we decided the culprit is most likely microphone ambient noise levels from the OCP and speed signal data from ABS both processed by the Rear Sam is no longer understood by the TTU. I believe reenabling these features for the cars the software was intended for (later NTG3.5 cars) are controlled via a menu choice in Nav options that isn't there for the earlier cars. Other owners of non facelift cars have this bug after the R SAM SW 09.43 FW 2219024903 is loaded and Merc don't care.
What I have discovered but no one has verified is if Point 1 is there on an unvandalised car or if they have Point 2 still working after 2219024903 is on the car. Point 3 is there on all cars and doesn't get broken, but is no use in day to day driving as is seldom implemented
Type 1: User instigated adjustment of the source mute differential for voice overlay. Never knew the car had this vital feature (its on a w211 of similar vintage). The user Menus to adjust are NOT part of the car. Nor are they documented or described in the User owners manual. But it is referred to in the official workshop documentation. Here it wrongly states this user choice is on the Comand unit (it is NOT). However remnants of this feature can be found by the user and the effect detected in diagnostics but with NO change in volume level.
To test the obsolete/missing feature: When a Nav overlay message is playing. Press the Comand knob down and you find haptic feedback limiting your options to 5 positions (left or right). However it always reverts to the centre position regardless of operator choice. Complete the same operation without Nav overlay and there is NO restriction to the knob's movement. If you complete this test when connected to the COU in diagnostics you can see this action is registered by the vehicle in volume control signals. Whether its broken with the same SCN software update that kills the Source mute for voice overlay, I'm not sure. I suspect it was a feature considered during the vehicle's development and then forgotten as they moved to a more sophisticated idea (with signals from the ABS, OCP, SAM-H and TTU). And remains part baked in buggy software from build. However with Mercedes still believing this feature is there and working it could be why a SCN instigated Rear SAM update they force, breaks all the early cars they put it on. As it's actually an update for facelift NTG3.5 vehicles they believe is compatible with early cars but definitely isn't.
Type 2: Automatic very well judged source mute for voice overlay at ANY volume level with no user adjustment. My car had this and it worked exceptionally well for 4 years. I believe regardless of road speed or ambient noise inside the car the level of Mute was almost perfectly judged. As was SDVC. Had this feature been in conjunction with Type 1 any user could find exactly what they wanted . I wonder if a Comand update during the vehicles lifecycle, removed Type 1 to replace exclusively with a newly developed Type 2 ? If it was in the manual and no longer on the car this makes sense. But as its in workshop data and not on the car or the user manual, I suspect they created two methods during development and forgot to remove one of them. And as I state above, I think Mercedes believe the user still has that choice (and or the user menu option to have voice fade within Comand options that you get with NTG3.5 Nav functions) and thus still don't realise NTG3.5 software on an early car breaks them !!!
Type 3: Very high Vol setting, source die back for voice overlay (I believe always worked before or after any software updates). But as Type 2 should work you never knew the car had this feature. It seems to come in to play over 80% vol and mutes the source by about 40%. Where if Type 2 wasn't broken it would die back nicely to about 20%. Thus Type 3 can still leave the source at 60% Vol when a TMC or Nav overlay cuts in, which is insufficient to be effective. But is a noticeable change.
The level of the source or the TMC or the NAV remains user adjustable when the action is in play. Before or after Mercedes vandalise the car with a faulty software update
That is the very bug I've been chasing for 2 years - ever since merc said to put that 902 rubbish on the Rear SAM - I sure its that f***ing rear SAM update it just isn't suitable and Mercedes are incompetent fools or JUST criminals doing it on purpose
I did the Rear SAM update, what problem should I be experiencing now?
I still haven't fixed the Source mute for Nav overlay.
My car has
SBR - H 221 540 3250 (H = Hinten aka Rear fuse & relay board - still a current part for this car and its what most think is the rear SAM, its the bit you see from the rear seats with the fuses and relays.
then clipped to that is
SAM - H 221 545 4832 (Rear SAM - is the original Rear SAM and it sits beneath the fuse board and clips on it and is electrically connected to the SBR - H via some little electrical pins.
The original R SAM came with SW 221 442 1300 (05.45) and worked correctly - But after the Front SAM got a software update SW 221 442 2700 (06.26) it then said the rear wasn't compatible.
The correct Rear update should have been SW 221 442 2600 but the criminals decide wrongly they can run facelift software 221 902 4903 (09.43) and the mute is then dead.
18 months ago I bought (second-hand) the current R SAM - H 221 545 8532 which came out late 2007 and remains the current new part for replacement. It comes running SW 221 442 2600. Which as a later part than the current Front SAM software MUST have in its day been compatible.
But the garage I asked to try and manually code it to the features on my car couldn't manage it (I purposely didn't want to SCR update to the rubbish Merc want). The garage said "the replacement R SAM seems dead we can't code half of it" and put the old one back in. Then claimed one connector multiplug was broken and they had to glue it back in !!!
They were such idiots I put my diagnostics on it the next day and ever since I have two small fault codes that repeatedly come back.
With covid and life in the way, a year later I decided either they left me with a bad connection or damaged something. So I asked another garage to re flash the R SAM but they did the front and confirmed the rear has an intermittent connection and they won't try and flash until resolved. But without parts to resolve I decide not much point playing, but started to check out parts on Ebay. That's when I saw the pin bush housing I got that I thought was the wrong part was the right one for main power supply to the SBR so maybe that's the connection issue...…
It took me 5 hours to remove the Rear SAM and replace the main power feed 3 pin, pin bush housing they broke on the SBR, but nothing else appeared wrong. So I started to re assemble the car, but when it came to refitting the 2 foot H section strengthening mechano, I saw why they couldn't code that replacement R SAM. Its such an appalling design you could if incompetent trap the loom as you refit. I know coz I nearly did it a few years back. But as I didn't, I knew it was a OK before these halfwits did snag the main wiring harness and shorted it out. Trapping the loom between the mechano and the body. The damage is not terminal for the loom, just one wire has exposed copper so it seems quite obvious it was shorting as they tried code the R SAM
So then I thought OK they either
a) blew the brains out of something
b) coded something strange (maybe in the SBR)
c) muddled up the software and now between the old SBR and old SAM its doesn't make sense
d) created a bad connection between the pretty pathetic SBR / SAM connection
So I went back Jan 2021 and said just flash the R SAM if it gets over it, they muddled it in coding or something in a module is damaged. This garage did that but claimed I still had a bad connection on the R SAM. And showed me if you manhandle robustly a relay was clicking. Again without any parts to swap if something is dead I didn't see much point in doing anything. However when I got home I could see the SCN coding now configures the rear blind that its didn't 2 years ago !!! So Merc really are that dim, that 10 years after believing the later 902 software they force on the car is suitable they are still finding the need to resolve coding issues via SCR with that rubbish software.
01-21-2021, 09:42 AM
passion has no limits
