Hi there, I'm in the market for an AWD S-class. I'm considering the W221, from 2010 onwards. I never buy 1st year cars or 1st year engines.

However I'm a sucker for power, and while researching I realized that the 2011 S550 engine has considerably more power vs the prior years. This is due to Turbo charging (are they reliable?) as well as Direct injection (I couldn't find any info stating these are also Port injected motors). Do they suffer from the same problems as Direct injection engines; carbon buildup? IMHO, the best set up is BOTH direct and port injection; best of both worlds. The turbo engine is M278 vs the naturally aspirated M273. The M278 also has some new tech; Other changes relative to the M273 include an increased adjustment range for the variable valve timing system, a new timing chain arrangement, and new engine accessories (such as the oil pump, water pump, fuel pump, and alternator) which reduce parasitic loads (copied and pasted from Wikipedia).

How does the M273 stack up to the M278?
Any other issues I should be aware of; Air suspension vs hydraulic (which one is more reliable?)

My #1 concern is reliability. I can do simple maintenance myself; brakes/oil,spark plugs. I do live 2 hrs away from the nearest MBZ dealer, so I will happily trade reliability for power.

Part of my brain (the sensible part, it's miniscule) tells me to get a Lexus LS460 and be done with it, but I find them so uninspiring to drive or sit in. I currently own a Lex GS430 (V8 baby!!) so going to the LS doesn't really scratch my itch.

Also, am I right to avoid the AMG variants like the plague? I heard parts on those models are uber expensive; $4000 for brakes alone? Do the AMG's (S63) have a BMW "M" type ride (feel every pebble)?

I need AWD, a big trunk (the LS has a small trunk) and a cushy ride.

I've heard great things about the W222, but they are out of my price range.

Thanks in advance!

 

So I have a W221 2007 S600 V12 biturbo since April 2019. I have put almost 30k miles on it since purchase including regular snow-bird trips to FL. In my opinion, it is the finest driving machine in the World. Maintenance can be expensive but I have treated mine very well and it is reliable, powerful, and smooth.

 

Pretty common question asked but...

Anything through the dealer is going to be expensive, parts and specifically labor. I recently did a full front and rear AMG swap on my S600 (rotors, sensors, calipers, pads)...4000.00 I could have done the swap almost 4 times.

Everyone will have opinions about AMGs, V12s, etc. Do your research and figure out your budget. What is expensive to one person, may not be expensive to another for a repair or part. If i listened to everyone who told me not to get an S550 because of the maintenance, reliability, and definitely never get a v12, I wouldn't have bought an S550, or the first S600, or the 2nd one, and will probably get a 3rd at some point. I drive mine to FL often (pre covid), Rhode Island, NYC and will drive it anywhere with not a even a 2nd thought about reliability.

Airmatic vs abc. You can definitely tell the difference having abc, I wouldn't trade it for anything but airmatic rides well. I have never had issues with abc but the word on the street is that repairs are "astronomical".

They tell me, don't mod it because of x,y,z....you have to be crazy to do anything to the engine. Meth injection, bov's, and the list goes on..I don't really put everything I do to mine because of the negative nancys and everyone is so "judgy" ;-)

Some people buy cars with low mileage and have multiple issues, some buy them with higher mileage and have no issues and vice verse. It all comes down to ownership, maintenance history, the owner, etc. If you don't find one local, look outside of your area. You can have 2 cars with the similar mileage, same year, same maintenance but one could be a nightmare and one could be a dream. I see that on here often. Stay ahead of maintenance and replace things before they break in my opinion because somethnig will happen one day to a common wear item so why not replace it when you know it's aged and you're stuck somewhere right?

I only find cars 1000+ miles from home and I always go with my gut. I've never flown to buy a car and not drive back with it. I always ask for tons of pictures of very specific things, service history, live stream cold starts, run it super hard during the test drive. If a check engine light was cleared, it's likely it will come back on when you run it hard for a while but I never met a shady owner, thus far that seemed like they would do that. They always agree to let me drive it hard as that is a prerequisite when I fly down to buy it and I tell them why I do it.

Most will say get a PPI. I've never had one myself but if you don't know a lot about the W221, definitely get one.

2010+ is the way to go (for the facelift). I'm not familiar with the turbos on the M278, only the M275.

 

Thanks for the well thought out response, but all I heard is get the AMG... lol.

Ok, school me on the AMG's. Do they ride rough (like an M car) or are they buttery smooth like a Lexus?

Do any of them have Achille's heels; aka something like the IMS bearing / coolant line failures of the 996 Porsche's?

 

There isn't a Mercedes V8 that is trouble free over the long term. All of them have potentially fatal flaws, although fatality is not guaranteed.

M113K engine - s/charger trouble
M156 engine - head bolts
M157/M278 engine - cylinder scuffing, chain and valve issues

M275 V12 - ignition and cooling system challenges

 

I had a 2000 ls400, 06 GS430 and 08 LS460 and now 08 s550 4 Matic sport.

I feel like ls460 was a more solid car with regular Suspension. Over bumps and overall vault like. Not as heavy or nice on the highways but on regular roads. Better sound system for sure with ML.

I wanted a NA motor. Turbos is just another headache to deal with as they age. Although many say those motors are just as reliable as the 5.5 motor. I’d say drive both and get the best example you can afford.

aftermarket warranty can’t hurt either.

 

Sample size equals 2, I own both engines 273 in SL550 and 278 in s550 4m. Engines are solid given serial numbers greater than certain VIN s. Forums have these threshold numbers, post back if you need help. Turbo issues basically don’t exist. 115k miles on mine, 0 issues 0 worries on my part on both motors. Total disclosure I replaced motor mounts on both 30k miles on 273, 97k on 278.
IMHO, AMG is a case of over engineering and Uber marketing. Wonderful performance vs competition, hard to apply to day to day driving, unless you live where speed limit enforcement is negligible, i don’t. You will pay more for super charged engines and their associated maintenance costs,brakes too, but it might be worth it for you. Insurance costs are higher too, that horsepower thing.
Bottom line on W221 is , the driving experience for the investment is very favorable. Not much risk in the w221 2008 model and greater.

 

Yes, I need help with this; Engines are solid given serial numbers greater than certain VIN s. Forums have these threshold numbers, post back if you need help.

Any input on ride comfort (suspension) of AMG cars vs a regular S550?

Thx

 

I was in the same boat when I picked up my W221. I'll share my thoughts on M273 vs. M278 and AMG vs. non AMG considerations.

I bought 2010 W221 S550 RWD with M273.
+ M273 is at almost the last year of production in 2010. If I am not mistaken, for W221 S550, the last year for M273 is 2011. You get M278 in 2012 with S550, S63 gets its TT in 2011.
+ Turbo is great for power but it's one more component to replace later.
+ Direct Injection (in general) is great with power and efficiency but at the cost of carbon deposits.

I've chosen M273 for less maintenance and long term reliability. You'll likely need to do walnut blast at some point with direct injection engines. If you have a good independent and can manage the cost, M278 will provide greater performance than M273. If you DIY and can replace turbo along with doing walnut blast yourself, it may not be an issue with M278.

I am very happy with my M273 from reliability stand-point. 2012-2013 cars will have more effortless experience with M278. Also in June 2010 production or later, you do get an updated transmission with blue fluid which extends the life of transmission fluid replacement to 70k miles vs. 39k for the red fluid. I have a May 2010 production date with the red transmission fluid. I change the fluids every 3 years and much lower miles than 39k for peace of mind.

AMG vs. Non AMG.
Regardless of which year / model of AMG you purchase, be aware of the following.
1) W221 AMG comes with ABC suspension (Hydraulic) . This is a step up compare to Airmatic suspensions in terms of handling and ride comfort (the best of both worlds) but it's more complicate to work with and more expensive. I used to have W220 S55 AMG with this suspension and I ask my indy shop to change ABC fluid along with filter every few years. MB does not have service recommendation on ABC suspension. I had to replace a valve block and accumulator during my ownership of 10 years in my 2005 S55. Good indy mechanic is the key. Airmatic in the non AMG cars are simpler to work with. I had to replace both front air-struts at around 70k miles. I used Arnott's part (around $500 each at the time I replaced them with lifetime warranty).

Brakes. This is a big consideration for AMG cars. While AMG brakes are superior over non AMG cars, parts alone (rotors/pads) are in the $4k range. Dealers want $5k-$6k to replace all pads/rotors. Aftermarket brakes parts are harder to find and still pricy.

My W221 S550 has AMG sports package with a cross-drill rotors (350mm front rotors). MSRP for front rotors are about $160 each, pads around $100 each. Rear are less. I can get MB pads and rotors for under $600 for fronts/rears. My indy charges $150 per axel to install pad/rotors. Much lower cost than AMG.

AMG cars are great if you can manage the cost. If lower maintenance/cost are concerns, W221 S550 would be a better choice.
M156 on S63, you'll want to make sure that the head-bolts have been replace with an update ones. Also Valve can be noisy. Make sure to maintain that ABC suspension with fresh fluids and filter. If something goes wrong with the ABC suspension, filter is at the return line so significant damage can happen.

Good luck finding your car. They're a great car. Find one that's been properly maintain. Pre purchase inspection is highly recommended.

 

http://www.mercedesmedic.com/check-m...y-vin-m272273/
OP, this will answer your question on m273 engine serial numbers. serial number numbers greater than a threshold use better parts and are considered “safe.”
you need to find the engine serial number via your VIN at www.lastvin.com.
key in the vin on any Benz and you will get the build sheet from factory with the list of equipment on the vehicle.

w221 comes with Airmatic suspension on most cars and ABC (Active Body Control) on AMG model sclass. No other suspension made for w221. Both rides are very pleasant.

Again, sample size 2, I have one of each and have zero issues on either. I did an ABC flush and filter on the Sl550 as preventative maintenance. Both systems are engineered for the car and give adjustments to fit drivers wish, sport/stiff or normal for cruising. You won’t experience “float boat” like large American or Asian cars have.

As all Euro cars, suspension parts can get spendy.

 

ABC problems seem to be less common on the second gen system used in 2007+ cars. I’ve owned two second gen ABC-equipped cars (2012 CL63 and 2007 CL550), and the system has been fairly reliable for me. I needed to replace the pulsation damper (mounted on the pump) on both, but that’s a minor repair, and aside from that the ABC has been solid. ABC doesn’t ride any softer than Airmatic (possibly a bit firmer actually) but the benefit is better body control, and better handling of bumps on one side of the car by eliminating anti-roll bars.

I’ve never owned a Lexus, but I don’t think any aging W221 S class would be quite as reliable as a well maintained Lexus. Early 2007 M273 engines had idler sprocket issues that can be an expensive fix, but aside from that there were many minor part revisions over the years that improved reliability as well. Small changes like updated guide pulleys and improved wiring for wheel speed sensors, and some revisions to the transmission too. For instance, I’d expect a (well maintained) 2009 or 2010 model to be a be a bit more reliable than a 2007, age differences aside, due to improved parts if failure prone bits haven’t already been replaced. My 2012 CL63 was more reliable than my 2007 CL550, though it’s just been a string of minor issues (partly due to prior owner neglect) on the CL550.

 

Can you give some insight on 278 VIN numbers that are in the solid category?

 

Some early 278 engines had a noisy chain rattle on start up. I don’t know what engine serial numbers were affected.

 

I ended up with an 07 S550 4Matic as my first S-class. It has the fixed M273 but is obviously otherwise a first year S550, with a December 2006 build I believe. Fortunately it's not a super early one but still first year in the US.

My assessment is that the M273 is actually a pretty good engine and the quirks aside from the timing gear issue (which mine doesn't have) are not too difficult to fix. It has a nice broad torque curve and gets surprising fuel economy for what it is. My car is fairly lightly optioned with the iPod kit, P2 (heated and ventilated front seats, satellite radio, Parktronic, Keyless Go), Nappa leather, and the wood steering wheel. So it is missing a ton of the cool/tech options. I still kind of wish it was a RWD car since the 4Matic integrated transfer case (and crowded front end due to the AWD) makes me a little nervous but I'll do my best with maintenance to give it a chance.

In the end I am glad I ended up with a silver car with the base 18s because it will suit my usage of this car better than a black one with the AMG wheels (even though that looks awesome). I will try to make a post separately introducing myself but figured I'd at least put this here.

 

First off welcome to the S-Class family, if you choose an AMG the welcome to the few of us who made the choice and love it….and will never go back!

I own a 2010 S63 AMG 6.3L (V221) yup that’s right (V221). Treat your AMG engine with love and care and it will blow you socks off all day long.

my advice on repairs: 1st (get an extended warranty), Never go to the dealer unless your ordering from the parts department. I do have a authorized mechanic shop I go to here in SOFL, even the dealers send their cars to them as they are ex-Merc mechanics.

I have only had 2 repairs done.
1st - Right fuel tank and pump which was around $380 (my extended warranty covered it)
2nd - replacing my radiator (I ordered the part myself and doing the install wasn’t hard, just took about 10 hours lol.

Always get your oil changes on time. I tend to do mine about 1000 miles before due.

I have the N/A 6.3, which I love over turbo (drive it like you own the road).

I get all my part online and if I can’t do it myself then I would take it to the shop but doing any repairs diy makes me feel like I’m more one with my car know any slights feels when driving.

any questions I’m here to help.

 

I'm probably in a minority here, but personally I'm not worried about power (like getting an AMG or a V12 or whatever). I'd suggest just finding the best car you can, with the best combination of features and service history. The V8 in the 550 is plenty fast for normal driving. If I want to go really fast, I'll drive my wife's EV.

I happened to be shopping brakes and rotors yesterday. A rotor for my 550 was like $100 at MB...the AMG was I believe $1000.

 

Can you expand on that? Were there any changes made that makes the 2008 better than earlier versions? And how do they compare to the refreshed (2010+) models?

I know there is a refresh for the MY 2010; but I was always under the assumption that reliability goes up after the refresh and of course the last years of a model run. Using that logic, I've narrowed my search to the post mid-cycle refresh; MY2010 to 2013.

Also, what website/forum etc.. do you recommend using to find a well maintained car. I'm not going to buy from a used car lot and this model is too old for the Stealership lot.

Thx

 

So I have a 2007 W221 S600. The W221 made its debut in Europe in 2006 and was released in North America for the 2007 model year. The writer is probably concerned about buying a first year of any new model which, in my experience, is usually true in the US. It takes time to change the assembly process for a new model and they don't always get everything right. But this car is actually the second year of the new W221 series. They have already mentioned the weak areas of a +14 year old car including ABC, ignition system, cooling system, turbo system, anything plastic, and electrical gremlins in the high tech toys. Having said that, if you make an effort to maintain these motorcars; you will truly enjoy the driving experience. I love my S600.

The next mods were in 2010; what they call the 'facelift' series, and was mostly lighting changes.

Be prepared to pay for good maintenance services, try to get an after market warranty (hard to do on an +10 year old car), and go for it. If it doesn't work out, sell it.

 

Some (earlier built) model year 2007 cars with the M273 engine had timing chain idler sprockets that were prone to premature wear. It's a rather expensive job to replace this sprocket (around $4k labour). They fixed the bad sprocket part way through model year 2007. Late build 2007 cars and onwards with the M273 don't have this issue. For model year 2007 cars, find the engine serial number using a VIN decoder, and check that the last six digits are greater than 088611; the engine was affected by the bad sprockets if the last six digits of the engine serial number are less than or equal to 088611.

See: https://www.mercedesmedic.com/check-...y-vin-m272273/

There are miscellaneous other improvements made to various other parts through the years. A model year 2009 or 2010 S class is better than a 2007 or 2008. However, there are no major widespread flaws in the powertrain for a mid-2007 or later M273-powered W221. There are some minor M273 issues that are common such as leakage from the oil cooler gasket, but those are mostly simple/cheap fixes. The M273 engine on my CL550 has been pretty reliable overall. The 7G-tronic (722.9) transmission received some mechanical improvements in 2009, but 2007-2008 W221s with this transmission are mostly doing fine too. This transmission in my 2007 C216 CL550 has been trouble free for me and the previous owner. Just remember to flush transmission fluid periodically.

The 2007-2010 AMG models (with the M156 engine) are a different story. There are many known weaknesses of the M156 engine including head bolt breakage, and a million other less famous but still common issues. Be prepared to spend more on engine repairs with an M156 compared to the more ordinary but reliable M273.

Model year 2011 introduced a new/redesigned 4.7L M278 engine for the S550, and similar/related 5.5L M157 engine for the S63. These new/redesigned engines introduced some new tech such as turbocharging and direct fuel injection, and had substantially more power and torque while simultaneously improving fuel economy slightly. They are no more reliable than the M273, but still fairly solid for the most part. Some people have reported issues with timing chain stretch or rattle on startup with these M278 and M157 engines, though my experience with the M157 in my 2012 CL63 was mostly trouble free. Only issue I ever had with that engine was oil leakage from the camshaft position sensors into the wiring harness, though that's inexpensive and easy to fix provided you catch it before the whole harness gets soaked in oil.

 

Xx:
The previous posts said it all fo me, first year cars are something I avoid as a rule of thumb, others have pointed out their experiences with 2007 models having Nav and Command issues more than mechanical stuff other than the mention early 273 engine issues. Guess where these engines are? 2007 and prior.
Per "Also, what website/forum etc.. do you recommend using to find a well maintained car. I'm not going to buy from a used car lot and this model is too old for the Stealership lot".
Consider dealers. Might find one at a Stealer, I bought mine at a GMC dealer where it was traded in"
"
I use this site as it aggregates a few others,

AutoTempest.com: All the cars. One search.

Check these out too:
Autotrader.com
Bring A Trailer
Good luck

 

The theory about 2007s doesn't hold nearly as much water when they are 14 year old vehicles. Many, many of the trouble areas have already been exposed and fixed/updated as needed. My biggest concern was the timing gear issue and my VIN is later.

 

Thanks everyone for the comments and knowledge. I wonder if there is a sticky for buying a used S-class that contains all this info in one place/thread.

Last Q; how do the AWD models compare to the Rear wheel drive models? Are they less reliable? known issues with the AWD system?

I realize that the more complex the system is, the greater the chance of failure. I'm OK with taking that risk.

I would prefer to get the AWD, but that's not a deal breaker.

Thanks again people

 

I haven't heard of any widespread issues with 4matic on the W221, though of course there is a bit more complexity than RWD. If you were interested in the CL-class (C216) instead of W221, I would recommend RWD models because of the superior handling with the ABC suspension compared to Airmatic (no ABC for 4matic models). Ride quality with Airmatic is just as soft if not softer than ABC, but you get much less body roll/dive/squat with ABC which is nice if you want the car to be a little sporty and fun on twisty back roads. W221 S550s optioned with ABC (RWD-only) are very rare, but AMG models of the W221 came with ABC standard.

 

The biggest issue with the AWD from what I've read is the transfer case is integrated into the transmission case. The two downsides are that if you have a transfer case issue, you are probably looking at swapping the entire transmission and also if you have a transfer case failure, it may well take out the transmission anyway since they share fluid. For that reason it seems you need to be ON TIME with fluid service on these. They did this for packaging and weight as one of the marketing items for the W221 was AWD that added the least amount of weight possible, didn't require a different floor pan on 4Matic cars, and also handling wasn't impacted. The downside is the resulting, aforementioned engineering decisions.

This was interesting to read:
https://www.edmunds.com/mercedes-ben...7/road-test-3/

I also assume that upgrading to the new, blue fluid will help longevity but I need to look into that more.

 

XxD:
kevm14 is spot on, with the AWD risk over RWD. But if you need AWD you need AWD. This AWD car is a tank in snow, given proper tires. RWD is way better now than my prior years of Benz driving in snowy climate, E class before traction control was alway fun, couple bags of sand in the trunk helped.
In my case, I am not worried about AWD, my 2012 W221 4-matic transmission was maintained on schedule at the dealerships by the 1 prior owner, a722.9 with Blue fluid, I will be changing it ahead of schedule in another 20k miles or so. Gonna change my 2007 SL's 722.9 fluid first time ahead of schedule at 35k, (red fluid).
If you can get the records on any car it will give you peace of mind. If you can't, adjust your offer to offset your cost to get the fluid maintainace on schedule.

If properly maintained W221s can be very high mileage without major drive train component failures. Check out this forum for high mileage owners. Lot of Limo companies out East have 300 400k miles and more I recall a 700k ODO. These W221s were the backbone of their fleets (they probably have moved on to later models by now). Many other high end Limo companiuse throughout the world use S class. There's a reason Limo services buy Benzs and not all Suburbans and Escalades.