BOTUS

comes up here lots - I'm always suggesting its ABS sensors needing replacement - coz that's a normal thing...

But its been 4 years since I swapped all 4 for genuine merc ones so I forget - but I seem to think it should be a RED warning - as the issue is dangerous
However today's message also got the ABS light on not just a cluster nag which was Amber ?

These are getting older and german made ABS modules were built to make you scrap the car or motorbike - the number of these that go pop on BMW bikes is stupid - had it on two of mine for a start (and I'm not on about the early troublesome iteration)... there are loads of Youtube videos on how to DIY repair ABS module faults, and everyone and their dog do repairs for those that don't have the tools to try at home... Way before I had any idea and or tools to diagnose - my sister threw away a perfectly good four year old car 15 years ago - that was due to the earlier designed in fault where the wires fall off the circuit board - indeed my omega did the same - but I repaired that, as by then I knew the game

this got me excited about the topic, so been following the theme for years... After they got caught on the link wires coming un-soldered (as they did the same trick on all the diesels for the turbo actuator too), they moved to a more "random fault" that was harder to say they'd built it in deliberately... it didn't work as you find VAG now do a dealer parts dept repair kit, after a class action suit made them sort it and fords are much the same boat...

The fault introduced later, relates to the little baby "wiper motor" ESP pump, which has its carbon brushes forced into guides that are too tight, so depending upon a bit of luck and how often the ABS has cut in, brush debris gums up the brushes and the motor starts to go intermittent....

So I know its not really serious or expensive if I need to pop the unit off and sort, and I don't care as its easy to reach - but I'm not desperate to get my hands dirty at the moment, so I'll run with today's thought that what many are now getting is really a comms bug - not a genuine fault

And there I was today no bugs worth worrying about for quite some time and thinking about the seat thread that came alive recently - I decided much of it is probably the point that valves through lack of use forget what they are meant to do... so I decided to play with all the features today and the back rest sides would not play ball. Everything else worked, had a massage - then notice the shoulder adjustment seemed lazy to cut back when reset to zero - as I said the sides just went No and refused to let you try and select.

after switching off the car for 45 mins, I was driving in a straight line at 40 mph I tested the drivers seat pneumatic adjustment again - everything worked this time including the backrest sides ? - so its not air pressure and its not a stuck valve as NOTHING made them unstuck or fixed a leak I never had - so there I was chuckling about it being "random mercedes wiring / software / engineering integrity" as I have often suggested it is on the seat back rest module - and thinking of writing this up on the forum - when I tried it once more - and at the exact point the side cushions on drivers seat backrest moved (as I asked) the ABS / ESP error popped on the cluster, the car then wouldn't pull away properly stuck in 3rd or 4th gear. I stopped locked the car restarted the car, no change... realised the steering wheel buttons allowed me to pick 1st when the car would only do 3rd or 4th on its own

Got to a mates house went to reverse on to his drive, no gears forward or back !!! this is NOT an ABS fault - more like a Comms bug affecting multiple systems !!! Locked the car for an hour and thought 50 50 it will wake up happy - it wasn't - but now its pulling away normally and driving fine but with no ABS. In fact it was driving better - as the gears were holding higher revs and it drove more nicely at about 2.2k rpm change points not the normal 1.2k rpm it does to drink my fuel - No odd steering I know others have reported...

Get home and throw my just updated to 23.2 iteration Snap On scanner on the car, and get 17 faults across engine, gearbox, ABS, canbus, SAM and low volts it had at some point. I forget the words or where I came across it but found something like "held in fault mode" or something - so the car threw teddies over something (is this bad software - my iPod threw the towel in the other day and even disconnecting it wouldn't sort it - never had that before - needed to force a reboot on what seemed to be a totally dead iPod, now its happy again ? (actually I was using that today when the car went silly)).

Noted all the issues and said stuff it - there is NOTHING wrong and they car is there !!! - Key On Off and the car now agrees with me !!!

but...oddly with it idling it feels like I can feel a misfire - so I go in lots of parameters on the drive train and it thinks its happy but the idle is moving??? rev it up its happy, re-scan its happy, then it seems to settle after holding the revs for a bit - then turn on AC and the idle stays normal ????..... (I always turn off front and rear blower motors doing diagnostics or the battery will be flat).

so I'm wondering when will it next have an issue - what is driving this - low volts - odd software - old age - it just like to play silly ? I know its the later - its the w221 raison d'etre

Shadly1

Whenever I'm at a loss on an electrical issue, I clean every body ground point on the car. It doesn't necessarily solve the problem but it gets me thinking about the circuit I'm touching. Would any fault within this circuit cause the issue I'm having? It also gives me the benefit of ruling out corrosion on the ground.

BOTUS

the horrible iPod interface that was an option - I think can present some issue merc nor the box manu peiker understood.

the ipod interface stopped the night enhancement functioning on the early metal rear view cameras, and would have odd moments crashing - but after locking the car, would wake up next day normal

the very rare later ipod interface 2, with the blue plug to the box made the vol as loud as the rest of the car, the rear view camera night support came back to life !!! and if you read the ipod thread one guy had canbus issues and was told after a long dealer visit with german manu support, the canbus bug wouLd ONLY go away with the later ipod 2 kit and so their bug cost him 800 dollars or something

but whilst I have had both and still have the ipod 2 kit in the car the later one has crashed MUCH more often, and I see canbus bugs show up now and then since I fitted it 3 years ago - and frequently I need to disconnect as I get error message on the cluster it refuses to get over - but aside from last week it always came straight to life and worked perfectly after it was unplugged and re plugged in

nath_h

All this makes me wonder how long we can expect to keep our cars in running condition. I've gone all in on mine, spending way more money than makes any economic sense. I like the design, the more analog features, and the hobby of working on it. But, with so many things to go wrong and part availability on the decline, there will probably come an end date. Anyone have thoughts on this?

Shadly1

The plastics will be our downfall. As long as the plastics hold up, the car can remain roadworthy.

nath_h

Yes, most plastic or rubber is failing on my car. My current project is replacing most of the door/window seals. I've wondered if my car has had a uniquely hard life (lived mostly in Texas), or if this is happening to all these vintage cars. Some plastic has practically crumbled in my hands when removed.

BOTUS

whats irritating - I was planning on testing my new snap on update (its cost so flipping much need something for it) and nearly took it with me for that drive... but didn't want it nicked...

on a UK forum some won't drive a merc without their icarsoft package with them at all times... I try to take mine if driving more then 10 mile distance - you aren't safe without it

kn51

I know this isn't directly related to all the issues you are having...but what irritates me is how a bad ABS sensor can make the car a living a hell until rectified. Which may also involve jumping through hoops on DAS. I love the fact that it eliminates the power steering among other things. God help you if are on a road trip when one goes.

BOTUS

my omega also stopped the GPS working as well as the steering going odd - that one was strange the brakes didn't just lose ABS, they went mad - which I had on the bike with the failure first time round

both vehicles it stopped the brakes being safe in any driving situation - the omega liked to lock random wheels under very little provocation and the GS was utterly deadly - the front would just lock up under 30% normal slowing down braking force... on the bike I had figured I'll ride it through the summer and sort the issue at my leisure in the winter - it was so deadly 2 miles in to the trip home I figured that's it - its coming off tonight and was in the post to get sorted the next day.

check how it looks just like the one in the cars - they use it to link two independent brake circuits...

top one he just fits a ford fiesta "wiper motor" for the ESP on his BMW bike the bottom one show how to split the motor to sort the stuck brushes

BOTUS

the last few posts worth knowing as it happens on every car with ABS (they are all crooks) - but mine at the moment seems to be canbus fun - if the weather cheers up - I'll take the lid of the Front SAM and make sure its not doing the usual Mercedes trick of lounging in a swimming pool

JohnLane

Xentry is your friend for quickly sorting many such disasters. Worth the investment.

BOTUS

I have it

EasyPhil

Use Xentry to clear codes and then attempt to calibrate the ABS module. If it fails, it could be the electronic component attached to the ABS unit. I just replaced mine.

BOTUS

codes all went without an issue - I think it was all a fake canbus hiccup - not bothered to drive it to see if it wants to argue or play happy yet - I'll come back with what happens

BOTUS

well there we go - the other thread got me off my ****.

car been asleep for more than a week no faults - drove off the drive and within 20 yards beeps - ABS / ESP error - plugged it back in - decided I must be right - hit ABS valve block with a hammer, re-scanned all seemed good, comms to ABS module OK, all bits and bobs reading OK, wheel speed sensors all looking sensible, but stationary right rear wandered back and forth between zero and one other three all stable at zero. Release park and park brake rolled forwards a foot all jump up to 40 and drop back to 0 but that rear still has a wandering eye

Double checked all clear, drove up the road with diagnostics attached fault came straight back - but now power steering stuck really heavy - push through to wheel speed readings, left rear zero others moving with road speed

so left side ABS sensor not getting a reliable reading but oddly left front would go intermittent - not sure of out in sympathy or both reluctor rings rusty and sad

mate with a 330 coupe said his speedo to wasn't happy - I said check wheel speed sensors - turned out the entire reluctor ring had just rusted to death - nothing left - you can buy them but somehow need to drop pf the CV joint and no one wants to fit it
anyone know what they look like on the 221 ? on many other mercs its part of the wheel bearing shield and they just disintegrate

BOTUS

bit of random thinking - the fault now is NOT faults I had with wheel speed sensors

at the moment I'm getting No reading (on one wheel) - so the car throws teddies straight away

when it was the sensor wires broken on right rear, sometimes the park brake would self release, I'd get bings and bongs randomly, and the error was random in nature sometimes weeks between progressively getting more often over 6 months. So that's intermittent readings

Not the No reading I'm getting now. It also explains why the gearbox and the throttle are now going mad. When its a sensor deteriorating the car has No Idea its not random wheel spin or a slippery surface under braking - but No data is just wrong
..
the stupid sensor is easy to reach but requires an inside out torx E11 socket - sensor looks like new - about 4 years - try to look in the hole at the reluctor ring and can't work out what I'm seeing - brake spray still can't - glasses - powerful LED torch - still can't see anything that would excite a rusty bit of designed to fail wire - can't find what I need so use cotton buds, dirt but not much else - can't see rust or corrosion ... in the end wiped sprayed and then using blunt flat screw driver rotated the wheel and sometimes find a bit of a notch every few degrees - after 20 mins of this still can't see anything that makes sense - and doesn't look like I have achieved anything ... but more spray and more trying got bits of black crumbly mess on the screw driver tip - rub between fingers and it just crumbles to nothing - it isn't metal feels more like rubber that hated my brake spray ????.
gave up reassembled as heavens opened - will it work ? wouldn't make much sense if it did - but can't see how it worked before either.... oddly the car was 100% stable with just chocks and magic - don't do this at home kids...



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BOTUS

Set out today AGAIN – after cleaning both reluctors front and back on the left side – the bit the rusty copper wire in the sensor looks at - NO change, so within 4 years and 10k miles a £140 each sensor is just dead, on the left rear - after the originals did >12 years, or something more odd is awry

If it indeed turn out its a genuine one that’s failed in 10k miles and the not the dirty thieves at the indy kept the genuine ones and gave me pattern nasties – it would prove my theory the upgrade in parts is NOT to improve - but because they didn’t fail quick enough originally

And NOW upset as I had kept the old orig ABS sensors forever and can’t find them – they sat in the way for some 4 years and around crimbo just gone I know I moved them - as finally had enough of tripping over them for years - and now can’t remember if I finally threw them all out (had swapped all four – one per wheel) or if they are just hiding – but 2 hrs of looking its still a no show !!!

big story about many UK indy merc specialists and their interesting customer service – like one swapped my good front brake calipers out for seized ones - when they changed the brake fluid doing a big service – went from normal, to bled the brakes and now the car had a funny stiff feel like the pedal won't move and the brake were half as effective ever since... (after I fitted new calipers the brakes were straight back to haw I remembered them !!!

stole my unused spare wheel for a damaged one – but then put it back years later - after I’d told another garage about both the calipers and the wheel - they are friends with the first crooks.... (the later garage, is the one I think benefited from my calipers on his personal car....)

then another one, re the rear SAM and chopping up the loom badly fitting the H frame – and not connecting the SRB and the SAM correctly - then when I complained stole a set of wheel bolts including a set of locking ones... (but I didn't know for 3 months as I was waiting to use them on a project

And now a third one I just found – might have swapped out or at least borrowed to test - the OCP / interior Mirror on my father’s car fitting front wheel bearings !!! I was driving home when one of the switched fell out – it couldn’t clip in as the loom was located wrongly stopping it fitting in to its retaining clips – and then I saw dirty hand marks all up the left a pillar and all around the interior light and I had to clean off and fit the switch correctly – funny enough the self dimming doesn’t seem to work on that mirror any more - and I just found out his right mirror heater is dead according to my diagnostics

so it seems you go to get work done and they steal stuff and swap parts out ? if you go back they just don’t care - the UK is just a cesspit of horrible scum.... got to love life ?


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BOTUS

ha - found them - buried under more rubbish where I first looked...

the first time the ABS went silly on the original sensors I had an intermittent fault, mostly with the park brake being odd and getting worse over 6 months - till it threw a message on the cluster - that was around 12 years and 52k miles - and then lots this age were all dropping like flies worldwide - and with merc recco doing both new on the same axle (not one at a time) I decided to get 4 new ones and avoid a repeat time wasting experience. If I remember the retail robbery is about $220 each - I got a main dealer to sell them for $140 each thinking it would be more reliable than some budget junk - WRONG !!!

back then I remember measuring them after an indy had swapped them over for me, three were the same resistance and one was lower but still had continuity - then 3 weeks ago driving on a smooth straight bit of road instant failure - threw the car in a right tail spin - gearbox went totally mad, codes everywhere etc. 17 separate fault codes in 5 drive related modules - As mentioned above in the first post - I think this is a very different scenario to the last time with a different far bigger failure mode

So after trying to clean the reluctors on both left wheels in the last 24 hrs, it made zero difference - eventually found where I put the old sensors.....so got the back left wheel off again just now, to try a change of sensor as its not giving any road speed readings at all on the left rear- its just dead, very easy to do - only need the wheel off and three tools 10 mm socket, 11 euro socket, and a single plastic trim bung needs to come out - its a 20 min job - in front of the wheel under the arch liner is a silly multi-pug - it has a big spring clip that pops off sideways really easily - then just wiggle both plugs off together

Before removing, I got one of the old ones out to measure its resistance (a long one, which it turns out is a front) and got 400 whatever's set on 200k ohm - having released its connection on the car measured the left rear sensor on the car - 100% dead - zero continuity - so its coming off.... laid it out measured again dead. pulled both the old short ones out the bag matched the bend to the one I had taken off and measured the resistance 400 whatever's - that'll do - on the car everything is 100% back to normal

there is 100% no damage to the one that came out - the connections were clean and dry with no corrosion - that means in 4 years and only 13k miles its died with a bigger failure than any of the originals - now running a 16 year old sensor that's done 52k miles - so advice for others, never buy genuine ABS sensors that are clearly hideously over priced, trash quality junk - it should be $20 there is nothing to them - and they should never fail

outright crooks

oh and its defo a DIY job, less dangerous than what you could get wrong messing up changing the engine oil and filter.... so don't pay your Merc dealership $1500 for the entire job on all four corners - get on ebay and do it better for $200 and likely with what I've seen - better quality aftermarket parts...


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JohnLane

Botus.... it swims into focus as to why you may seem to have it in for grease monkeys!

In all my years I have not had anything stolen from my car in the few visits to the dealership.

Seems things are are different across the pond.

BOTUS

it was long known in the UK if a woman goes to a garage they rip them off something stupid - now with wage rise collapse for 20 plus years everyone is a shark - 5 years back an Australian for the WHO wrote a report on the state of life for the average person in the UK - it was a horrible indictment of the mess that thatcher pushed through (landing a very different real plan than the one people still think she delivered on so well)

your bosses boss has had a 1000% pay rise, you manager a 300% pay rise and the actual workers about 12% in 20 years - for the average skilled worker still trying in the face of appalling mismanagement and continuous threat of redundancy from a deliberate state led destruction of industry - if he was to look - his halfwit offspring and there delinquent mates that all do nothing but break a phone texting whilst "working" are often on a far higher wage - when they have no value add potential in them as the whole system has been turned on its head

https://www.gallup.com/analytics/394670/blindspot.aspx

JohnLane

Botus... We mustn’t forget that while those of us doing the work have seen wage increases of 10-30% over the years our real purchasing power has dropped by 50% due to inflation. Yes; one helluva mess... both sides of the pond.

BOTUS

some guys at work keep telling me the recent pay change in the US is incredible - and the lucky ones are now seeing a huge increase in earnings

JohnLane

Pay increases... meanwhile gasoline costs 2.5-3 times the $$$..... Groceries have doubled. My commissions sure haven’t doubled.

BOTUS

as this thread contains more and better info than the others - I'm adding the bit I just added on the other thread where he forgot to search and find better threads to learn from / contribute too


ABS is very basic - its normal brakes just like cars always had for 80 years - but for a bit of added safety there's now a few extra components - when needed it basically takes your foot off the brake pedal when you are pressing it to much and generating more braking force than there is grip

those extra bits are
1) four sensors at each wheel - reading if its going around and if so at what speed
2) a valve block of metal full of funny electro magnets
3) alongside a dim computer - its fitted beside one of your headlights

If one or more sensor is detecting wheel speed reducing or stationary when the rest of the car is saying we aren't going that slow - it releases the pressure in that / those wheel's brake lines, till its starts reading what the car believes it should - as the vehicle gets below 5 mph that same thinking would release the brakes and we'd never stop - so it turns off for the last few yards / 5 mph to 0 mph

There are usually only two failure modes with ABS
a) the valve block is not functioning
b) or the flimsy wire to each wheel has failed This failure comes as the wire to each wheel works back and forth under suspension movement - when badly made and badly routed, eventually the stress fractures the wires between the actual sensor and the car's brain (this is what is wrong with your car)

Later Merc and Bosch developed an advanced safety bit - basically adding three more bits to give us ABS with ESP - this added
4) a steering angle sensor linked to the steering wheel, to gauge what the idiot at the wheel is fiddling with
5) an inertia Yaw sensor that tells the slightly updated brain where the vehicle is really going and the likely route the driver intended to take before his driving skills let him down
6) a small electric pressure pump. This pump can add brake pressure over and above what the driver is doing (or indeed without the driver even braking)

Thus ESP gets the ability to try and course correct the car by dancing brake pressure between individual wheels very quickly to reduce the car trying to spin off the road - it is very clever and is way better than any of the worlds best drivers - as its doing the maths faster and more reliably and of course cars never had 4 brake pedals so it can do more than any driver ever can to help

But ESP brings the usual failure mode opportunities up to three -
c) introducing the deliberate pump failure mode BMW so love to fit. But as they all buy the same parts its rather odd it afflicts Mercs less often !

The FIX - of course fault codes usually help (in this case they usually don't)
You need to review the sensor data on each wheel as you drive - with diagnostic kit that does this - most 200-300 dollar kit will do this. But if you have the time and not much money - you can get the same answer with a simple multimeter, I'm >99% certain you'll find an issue with a wheel speed sensor - in my experience (twice on mine - but mostly what others have said over the years) its seems to be one of the rear's sensors wiring that breaks most often and its easy to reach with the road wheel off the car - never followed the fronts they might be even easier - they come up in to the engine bay through a hole in the inner wing - but I personally never looked where they go

the senors only have two wires each - thus on a given wheel at its connection plug, between each pin measure the electrical resistance - a good sensor - I got readings of 400 whatever's with the multimeter set on 200k ohm - If you have much less, or indeed its very different to the other sensors, like mine last week which was 100% dead - zero continuity (aka no reading) fit a new sensor