I'm stepping out of my usual w220/w215 comfort zone and venturing at the w221. I rarely see these in the shop, and the used market has them pegged significantly higher than any w220 or w215 that have depreciated so much as to be a joke. You will spend at least as much getting them reliable as you did on the purchase price.

I generally feel like the w221 was Mercedes learning from their Schrempp mistake and generally improving upon the systems. I see way less ABC problems about ABC ii, and it's my understanding that it's a significant improvement for usability over abc i.

That said, the M113 is a bulletproof engine, and the engines that came after not so much. Does anyone have experience with the two? Are the known problems with the w221 significant or not so bad? Does anyone have some high mileage examples (150k+ miles) going strong?

 

if you like playing on cars (AKA every weekend) and want to learn what fun modern cars present, its an excellent opportunity for an apprenticeship into the IT side of things as well as every mechanical idea ever thought of

if you want to buy a car to drive somewhere, there's a company that basically make a Merc like Merc tell you they do - its got Lexus written on the bootlid

you will find a slight difference if the road wasn't freshly ironed and you wish to try and emulate a stage of the corsican rally, an S class will hang in a bit better - for most drivers its not an issue unless you like to drive like the people in the video below, where an S class will handle like the first 10 seconds of this video - whereas the Lexus will have helped you park (expensively)

 

I can't comment on owning a W220, but a W221 will be an expensive and time consuming hobby. There is lots that can and will break. I would not buy one thinking you are getting a reliable vehicle. If you enjoy working on cars and do not need it as a primary vehicle, go ahead. With that said, I've looked on Copart a few times at W221 cars...surprised to see many with 150,000+ miles, and I saw one with 300,000 a while back.

 

My 221 S-65 was a wonderful car to drive.... With some niggles along the way.

I DRIVE my cars hard when so inclined. Trips from the Lynden house to the ski area at Mt Baker were a regular occurrence. Never spared the horses, brakes, tires. Had a blast. ABC made it easy to be a savage whilst never putting a wheel wrong. Those who believe a big heavy car cannot dance have not driven an S-65 to the limits. It cheats the laws of physics. Really.

Suspension arms (front) every 30,000 miles.

Brakes forever warped. Gave it the Brembo big brake kit (solid six piston calipers with rotors on hats that just fit under stock 20” wheels) and promptly warped those rotors as well multiple times.

78,000 miles I ‘lost the lottery’ when the 275 spat a main bearing shell into the chains. Replaced it with a 29,000 miles engine that ran great until the car got traded off here in Az with 150,000 miles on it.

I got to do the ABC pulsation dampener twice, an alternator, A/C compressor, radiator, heater blower motor and controller, VCM module, cuss about how PSE inflated the seats, three sets of engine mounts (almost annual it seemed like) etc.

The 221 car was ready for another pair of coil packs and the amplifier guy that operated them when I traded it. They were new when I purchased the car.

Loved the car.... Keep in mind that the 221 is a HUGE improvement over the 220. The 222 S-65 I replaced it with is as much better than the 221 as the 221 vs 220.

 

I've owned my W221 since new but only managed to get around 100,000 miles on the clock. I think it depends a bit on your definition of "unreliable". Mine has only once actually let me down; with a dead battery. This can happen to anyone. All the normal stuff has been replaced (pads, discs etc.) and I've had a number of irritating issues; suspension pump replaced, the bags in the driver's seat replaced, massage seat broken, proximity sensor failure. I think the mirror heaters have failed too (need to confirm) but apparently (according to Botus) these are designed to fail. I'll get some cheap Chinese copies and give them a go. Probably the worst thing that happened was one of the suspension units failed. This was expensive to replace but the car was (just about) still drivable. To be fair, a lot of stuff has not gone wrong and still works perfectly and looks "like new". Botus is right though a bit of an IT challenge. Having just retired I realised, now I have more time, that Mercedes have never updated the software in the car. This is now and on-going project. Of course the SatNav is useless as there are no recent updates but I have just installed a CarPlay interface which has solved this problem.

 

I forgot; early on both front wheel bearings were replaced. I thought this was really bad at the time for such an expensive car. Also the clutch fell off the air conditioning compressor. That one irritated me as it required a new compressor. I’m sure a new clutch would have been possible but i didn’t have time to chase around when it happened. That one also made the car unusable.

 

So it sounds like more of the same.
Sucks about that engine grenading itself, but it sounds like you went another 60k miles out of it.

Other than the pulsation damper, the ABC system has behaved itself well? Haven't had to replace struts, hoses, pump? I just got done doing the hose to the rear accumulator that popped on the CL600. Already did that on the S500, in addition to all the high pressure hoses in the car (there are four, three definitely need replacing).

The front thrust arms are easy to do and relatively inexpensive. The engine mounts are an engine out job on the w220/w215, or you can cheat if you hate yourself. Is it the same on the w221? I've additionally heard the reason the engine mounts fail is because people remove the snorkels from the belly pan that feed cool air onto the engine mounts . Put those back in, and they won't fail. I've done the engine mounts twice on the w220 S500, and since doing the snorkels, it's not a problem anymore.

Did you do this yourself, or do you have a good tech? I mean *good* tech? What about stupid bull**** failing? The rear sunshade, the door lock actuators, the massaging seats (I think you mentioned they failed?). The bull**** breaking is fine, as long as it's not a nightmare to do. Something like the dinky high pressure ABC hoses mercedes used that require the rear subframe to be replaced. FFS. Also on the w220/w215 with ABC, the top rubber mounts for the struts almost always fail, and the only option is a new strut from MB for a cool $1200. It sounds like the w221 is a significant improvement over that.


Someone mentioned the w222's are even better, but I have a hard time believing that. Interior plastics are worse than toyotas, and they just break for no reason. Then you have to spend mercedes money to replace the crap.

 

Only ABC issue was pulsation dampeners. Ten minutes each. Always had fresh ABC fluid and filter. Had a L/F strut that would drip when on the hoist at full droop. Wiped it off. Rarely had to add ABC fluid. Engine mounts take me two hours to do. Pull the engine? BS! I replaced the engine when it spat the main shell into the chains. Took my time and did a nice job of it. I’m a more than capable tech. Been doing this ish all my life. Never had a door actuator, sunshade, window regulator fail. I failed to mention previously that both batteries got done in the time I had the car.

Only plasticky ish I have got to replace in the 222 car is a grill surround and the driver’s window master switch. Chrome bubbling on the former... peeling on the latter.

222 car has Carbon Ceramic brakes. I have put 40,000 miles on it. Pads were new when I purchased the car. I drive it plenty hard and can’t see that pads have measurable wear. No more warped brakes. No rotor wear. No brake dust. No joke.

Edit: You mentioned the annoying bushing that rots away at the top of front ABC struts in the 220.... 221 uses same design. For the 222 car MB Changed the design such that weight of the car is on a much larger bushing around the circumference of the strut. Zero degradation in the bushing in 130,000 miles. Also.... soooo much more aluminum is used in the 222 car. Stiffer chassis with less weight.

 

All these things sound like mercedes improved significantly for the 221

 

Do you happen to know if the top orange bushing on the ABC strut can be replaced by just cranking off the large bolt holding it on? I see one can buy Chinese replacement bushings, but I'm not clear on how to install it. Mine are just falling to bits.

 

I have a 2011 S550 that I bought as a CPO in 2013 with 14,000 miles. I now have 150,000 miles and have followed the Mercedes maintenance schedule - it is due for a 10,000 mile service soon. I checked the oil level 2 days ago and it is down about 1/2 quart in 10,000 miles. I have never had to add oil. Tranny still shifts smoothly. Problems I have had over the years have been;

• 42k - Replaced thermostat
• 58k - Replaced left front wheel speed sensor
• 90k - Replaced both lower control arms.
• 111k - Replaced engine & trans mounts. Drivers side door handle replaced.
• 140K - Replaced front & rear air shocks.
• 144k - Replaced starter motor.

Other than those issues it has just been normal wear & tear items. At 13 years old the car still drives and looks like new and is by far the best car I have ever owned. Did I just get lucky and get a good one? One last thing is that I don't beat and abuse the vehicle, not that I don't drive fast on occasion. It currently gets about 21mpg overall.
Remember that this forum is for people that have problems with their vehicles. There are thousands of W221 owner that love their cars and have few problems with them. I have been fortunate to have a dealer in Southwest Cleveland who has done a great job of maintaining my car.
A quick antidote to end with that says a lot about owning an S class. A few years ago we were visiting our niece and nephew and she was showing us her new Toyota SUV and showed me a button that she could push to amplify her voice to the back and asked If I had that on my Mercedes. My Nephew ,who was in the back seat quickly responded - "Denny's got an S550 Mercedes - you can whisper in the front seat and be heard in the back!"

 

Best

Reliability rating Lexus 98.0%


Lowest ranked luxury brand for reliability

Reliability rating 87.6%

What went wrong? Non-engine electrics 25%, bodywork 19%, interior trim 13%, exhaust 6%, sat-nav/ infotainment 6%, suspension 6%
Mercedes has a higher fault rate than you’d want from a luxury car, with 44% of those in our survey suffering at least one glitch. Every affected car could still be driven and half of the faults were fixed in a day or less, but 42% of the affected cars spent more than a week in the garage.


Lowest ranked executive brand for reliability

Reliability rating 78.0%

What went wrong? Almost a third of BMWs went wrong. Exhaust and sat-nav/infotainment systems were the main problem areas, followed by bodywork, brakes and engine electrics.
Half were out of action for more than a week. BMW paid for only 58% of repairs, while 42% of owners paid more than £1500.


More German trash

Reliability rating 76.3%

What went wrong? Its from VAG. Engine electrics 22%, sat-nav/infotainment 22%, non-engine electrics 19%, gearbox/clutch 11%, bodywork 7%, interior trim 7%, air-con 4%, brakes 4%, engine 4%, steering 4%
Audi saloons have been blighted by a range of electrical issues: 44% have faults, two-thirds concerning engine and non-engine electrical systems or the sat-nav/ infotainment. 83% could be driven, 46% took more than a week to put right.


.

 

My 2012 W221 S550 has 116k miles (not 150 but over 100 people get scared so it’s pretty similar)

When looking for a used Mercedes you have to find one that was maintained very well, like never missed a service.

Now I’m not going to lie I do like to work on the car myself to save a few bucks since I have the tools and time to do it. But of the Mercedes I’ve owned and specifically this W221 S, if the engine has been properly taken care of its whole life then it’s probably fine. I only have to fix silly things like oxygen sensors, some bushings on suspension, and small electrical things like power mirrors.

What I’m trying to say is the things that are going to break (it will break) are going to be silly small things. And as long as you fix them asap you’re fine. Just don’t skimp out on parts, use OEM or OE and always do it by the books if you’re working on it yourself. And make sure to have like 2k saved just in case for the car if you want some piece of mind.

if you have a very good trusted mechanic or you can do some small work to the car, find one that’s been maintained perfectly, and you understand that the car will break something will happen, then you absolutely should get one!

Also, air suspension is not scary or complicated, just a little pricy for parts, but it’s a Mercedes! It’s pretty much 4 Air struts, air lines to a compressor and valve block, and ride hight sensors.

Don’t be scared of these cars, just know what you’re getting into. It’s not a Honda, and you can’t treat it like one.

 

My 2007 has over 220,000 miles on it, bought with 184,000 miles. Compared to W220, to me, night and day difference in quality, W221 clear winner here.

 

I should mention I have an S500 with 265k miles and a CL600 with 130k miles on it. I know this platform in and out. I know what MB ownership entails. What I want to know is if the 221 is appreciably better than the 220.

 

But who wants to drive a Lexus?! Slow and boring compared to the Germans.

If you go by numbers everyone would drive a Honda civic and nobody would buy Italian sports cars.

 

not sure where you live - but you struggle to get over 20mph these days -

a lexus...

makes a honda look unreliable
with the M Levison upgrade has the best std fit stereo of anything out there
is better made than anything out there
is way more reliable than anything out there
has more performance than anyone needs
it just has a slightly naff brittle suspension - but then so do all the latest cars - none flow down the road like old cars used to...

ever heard of an IS F ...after 2010 has std fit LSD https://www.evo.co.uk/lexus/is/6815/...ad-test-review

 

Sometimes I wonder why I do this to myself. I have three MB in the garage, when I could have three Lexus. I think I need therapy.

 

Although I haven't owned a W220 I have known owners and have ridden in them many times. I own a 2011 S550 and it's a great car, and from my own observations is a much better vehicle than the W220.As some on this forum have pointed out it's important to find a used one with a good service history. One of the reasons that I purchased a 2011 S550 is because it was the last year of the naturally aspirated V8. Any vehicle that's been abused for years will be a constant source of problems.
As I have pointed out in the past this is a forum for people that have a problem with their vehicles and is not a true cross section of MB owners, so take some of the comments with a grain of salt.
Certain members of this forum seem to have a serious bias against MB vehicles and are on a personal crusade to bring them down, despite their knowledge of the brand. Why would anyone be on an MB forum who is so in love with the Lexus brand? Doesn't make sense to me.

 

You're not wrong. Lexus doesn't have the m275 V12 though Or Hydraulic suspension. Or other awesome.

Maybe I should look into Lexus, b/c it's gotten a bit ridiculous.

 

That's a good ****ing point. I was tending towards looking only at later models of the w221 b/c the pOWeR... totally forgetting the truth that forced induction screws everything up.
I heard the M273 have a known problem with camshaft bolts? There was something they all needed doing. But wow, thank you. Now I can look at the much cheaper M273 versions.

 

I haven't had a problem with camshaft bolts on my car and haven't heard of that being a problem.

 

It must be boring working as a Lexus service technician with no cars to ever fix and just doing oil changes! I wonder why they even have service departments if their vehicles are so problem free but - unbelievably they do have service departments that are full and weeks out on appointments!! It must be that the Japanese feel sorry for people and give them jobs with nothing to do!

 

Alleged reliability is what they’re good for, at least the older ones. The Bang and Olufsen I have in my BMW is better than any Mark Levinson I’ve heard.

The build quality is great, however the design in general is too simple for me. Of course I’ve heard of an ISF, I’ve also heard how all owners went to M3 and C63 AMG after owning one.

Nobody is saying that a naturally aspirated 5.0 V8 with over 450hp is not enough, but why get that when I can have 600hp. Transmissions, do I need my DCT that shifts almost instantly? No, but it sure is a lot more fun!

It’s not even just about numbers, it’s the feel you get when driving a high end German car that cannot be replicated imo.

 

because the world changed, Merc made solid, dependable, stylish cars. That if honest were a little agricultural behind the scenes. But the endearing qualities (in a time where little was reliable) attracted such loyalty many owners didn't now there were just rough taxis

the country that made good cars, has the prestige in the RR, or the fun, refinement and handling we all needed in a Jaguar. Either brand a far cry from the NVH and wild engineering issues you get in a Panzer made in stuttgart - but the two Britsh brands didn't keep pace with reliability the way they should have.

Then in comes a new brand (from a country that learned how to make cars copying English ones), who took all they had learnt from British cars and applied it to the style and design of a german car. But made them properly - so we get swiss watch craftsmanship in a better more affordable product than German's could ever hope to understand... Had they worked with Lotus it would have gone round corners too

car forums should be about cars and helping others - not fanatic brand fans lying