Hi All,

I have a CL63AMG from 2009. I bought the car with 70K from the first owner. The car was shaking so I decided to get wheels and new Michelin PS4S. They got road force balanced and alligned and they rules out the wheels and tyres. I am experiencing a vibration in the steering wheel that comes and goes. I cant pinpoint when it occurs. It runs smooth as hell and than it starts shaking the wheel slightly .

Here's the explanation of the issue:

The vibration in the steering wheel is not constant. Sometimes it’s perfect, and then it comes back again. Sometimes it's more intense, sometimes less.

It’s not present when I’m holding the steering wheel firmly.

It starts from 85 km/h to 120 km/h, and then it’s no longer noticeable.

Sometimes you don’t feel anything, and sometimes the vibration is there.

There's a whining noise at 105 km/h when letting off the gas — not under load. The whining occurs from 105 to 99 km/h.

RPM doesn’t matter — even when I downshift, it stays speed-dependent.

There's a vibration in the car, also seems to be in the chassis under the seat.

It’s a vibration in the steering wheel that causes it to move side to side.

I feel the vibration gets worse when I let off the gas. So between 120 and 88 km/h it’s more noticeable when decelerating.

After 130 km/h, the vibration disappears.

In gentle curves, it’s very noticeable — steering feels jerky.

I haven’t checked for play when the wheels are off.

On the highway, the steering wheel behaves jerkily when steering and returning to center. So when turning slightly left or right, it jerks back to the 12 o'clock position.

I downloaded a vibration meter and measured it. You can see the vibration in that range is just as strong as when I drive 160 km/h.


Does anyone have some tips?

 

May I suggest to check some things in this order:

* Engine mounts
* Transmission mounts
* all driveshaft "guibos"
* have the wheels checked again by someone else get a 2nd opinion

When the engine mounts & transmission mounts start to sag on the 221/216 the weight of the motor (espc yours) causes the driveline angle to change ever so slightly. I had this exact case at the exact speeds on my 221 and I went through this list as above, it was all of them.

In my case as it was *finally* solved in the end by removing & re-balancing the driveshaft. This happened to mine at just 103,000KM. I'm at 200+ now with zero vibration. Took me 1 year to reach the culprit.

You can say that you're at an advantage in having the 216 which is shorter, hence shorter driveshaft. The longer the driveshaft the more perfect it all has to be in order not to have harmonics..

I had also paid 400 $ for that AppStore program with the vibration analysis tool kit. I forgot what it was called, if you've reached the point of getting apps to measure you've probably seen that tool as well. Imagine how desperate I became. Let me know how it goes, as sad as the situation may feel it *can* and will be solved it's just a process of elimination.

Best of luck & drive safe. beautiful car that CL63!

 

Thanks for sharing much much appreciated! Did you also have the strange shaking of the steering wheel? Sometimes it's really bad and sometimes it's completely gone. It really drives me crazy . I could sometimes drive for 30 minutes all good and than it comes. I experienced it being worse when engine is cold when I drive away directly.

I saw you are in NL and I am also. Where did you get the job done?

 

At that mileage its the transmission mount

 

Hello, thank you!

I did not have a mega-shaking of the steering wheel, but it was there for sure. I would also like to add that when this was at it's worse I had the 19" AMG wheels on the car, and 2 of them were not perfect. It is my opinion that if the wheels are not absolutely perfect, you will have shaking in the wheel. The standard run of the mill tire shops will say "yes they're fine" but you really need to find someone that is 100.00% A++++ high end that will spend time to verify that the tire is mounted properly on the wheel, without any hopping, etc. There is a very specific way to mount tires properly keep this in mind, everyone can mount a tire and balance it, but *few* can do it A++++ grade.

>> Sometimes it's really bad and sometimes it's completely gone.

This, I did not have. My problems were consistent, however as you describe it I would probably put some bias on the engine or transmission mounts. I don't know, but I would suspect that they are fluid filled and likely after the temperature load from the 6.3L .. .. best to check .. These are cheap, suggest to buy original MB parts always btw.

>> w you are in NL and I am also. Where did you get the job done?[

I'm sorry this profile is so old that it was still having the old locale, thanks for bringing that to my attention. I'm in Greece and I use only an official MB dealer/service https://www.merser.gr/ to service all of my cars. All other MB dealers I ever used were horrible and solely interested in getting money for nothing - these guys however are true car aficionados. They love what they do.

In the family we have 5 x MB's, including a CLS350, S350, S350L, SL280, GL450, all are managed by Merser. *Nobody* has ever treated me better than these guys.

(I would suggest to use MB parts always, for everything.)

 

Could the transmission mount cause the steering wheel shake really?

 

Thanks for your reply! I have road force balanced the wheels by a specialist and they indeed refitted the front tyres as they were completely off. This has done an tremendous job already and the car is completely good apart from the mystery of sometimes the shaking. I would assume that if it were the wheels that you need to have a constant vibration and in my case its the opposite. I will most probably get the car checked for the transmission mounts and engine mounts to see if that helps. I really do appreciate your help because it drives me crazy not being able to allocate what the problem is. I am fine with spending money to get it right but than you need to know what to change....

 

Steering wheel is connected to rack & pinion steering rack, which is mounted to front subframe, ontop of which mounts the motor & transmission. Tolerances are tight on these cars. The driveline, if vibrating, creates a harmonic imbalance which could easily be exported to the steering wheel.

Now, if we're talking about shaking of the type akin to warped brake rotors, that *won't* happen from driveline. In such a case we start talking about lower control arms, upper control arms, etc etc.

>> assume that if it were the wheels that you need to have a constant vibration and in my case its the opposite.

I have also bought brand new (Michelin Primacy 4) tires once and found that one was out of round on day 3.
This is also possible. Just because the PS4S's are new doesn't mean they are all 100%.

An improperly mounted tire that's not perfectly round on the wheel as it turns is a major problem on this chassis.

What size wheels/tyres are you using on your vehicle?

 

The shake can be described as wheels out of round. So it would come up with a light shake left to right and the vibration will come and go. It nothing like a vibration that the steering wheel is going crazy back and forward but a slight vibration and you do see it going but not like warped rotors. It can be best described as it begins to shake if you put your finger on the steering wheel it is not shaking anymore. I got road force balancing , they refitted the two front tyres and balanced it again. I was actually standing next to the guy doing this and he told me that its 100% not in the tyres and rims. They seem well in shape and they specialized in tyres and wheels ( really a specialist). The car had a massive shake when the tyres were balanced two times in "normal" way and this guy actually got rid of it. A small vibration still persist in the steering wheel that would come and go. The crazy thing is that it occurs only between 88 and 120 kmh when it occurs. I also tested with putting a few gears down when it would occur to see if it would intensify but it doesnt. Its really just at those speeds that it does it . I am running OEM measures tyres and wheels so no crazy after market sizes.

 

I had this problem a few years back. I did everything discussed above in this thread. The steering wheel shake was 99% corrected. For the last one percent, I think I've found the culprit...the center support mount/bearing. Look at the attached photo...the rubber has collapsed to the bottom, and the driveshaft is sitting low. I will be putting the vehicle back together this weekend, and looking forward to driving it and seeing the results. And my CL only has 68,000 miles and looks like this.

 

no - but it does cause a host of weird nasty vibrations at the back - that you might sometimes confuse for front wheel bearings

 

Wow this doesnt look good at all. Thanks for sharing your experience. Did your CL make also the strange vibration that would come and go ? Do you recall if it was always or sometimes? The more i know the easier it is to explain this to the workshop. Much appreciated

 

yeah if you got a blown out mount it causes other problems downstream real quick. The fact that you're quick to notice means youre probably gonna save yourself some damage later. Some people drive their cars like this for years. The transmission mounts for these cars are easy to replace, the mount is a $20 part and it's kind of crappy quality for how much it does. They do go out at 60-80 well before the engine mounts/flex discs do.

 

At first when I got the CL, it was always when I got above about 60mph. As I started to troubleshot, doing one thing after another like others have talked about in this thread, it gradually got better, and eventually almost 100% but not quite. I think multiple things were contributing to the steering wheel shaking. I would categorize the shaking as coming and going as I got slowly closer to fixing the problem. My advice is always the same--do everything, because your parts are old and worn out anyway, they aren't that expensive, and you'll know where you stand.

I took the driveshaft to the dealer to have them press on the bearing, since I don't have the MB special tool. I stopped by yesterday, and surprisingly they don't have the special tool. They were going to try to improvise something. If they can't do it, I'll have to improvise something--if anyone has advice who has done this, let me know.

 

The car is planned in the workshop for next week so I will update once they have looked at it. I tried to idle the car and put my fingers on the steering wheel. I feel a slight vibration in the steering wheel when I put my fingers on it. Is this normal for such a big engine or is it due to the motor mounts? Funny thing is that the car had an inspection prior to buying and the specialist appointed that the motor mounts looked worn and the guibo had cracks.... i looked it up yesterday. How hard is it to change the motor mounts and guibo?

 

Flex discs, very doable, but like my photo of the driveshaft support showed, yours is likely toast. And I bought the last one available in the US. However, yesterday I found out a few important clues about parts specific to the 2007-2008 CL--can't recall what year yours is. You can DM me if you want. Motor mounts aren't that bad in a regular CL, but can't say for sure about an AMG. While you are at it, replace all the exhaust hangers with new rubber so as to help absorb vibration. IMHO, it's all those little things that are worn that add up to a car not feeling like it did when new.

 

PM send!

 

I drive a 2009 W221 S600 V-12, and experienced symptoms like yours.

When I first purchased the car with 78k miles, it vibrated throughout the throttle up like a car with a racing camshaft in it. My friend, who builds propeller planes, thought it sounded macho.
The fix was to replace the two liquid filled motor and one transmission mount.
Ran quiet and vibration free.

The next vibration issue was at 65mph up to 85mph I had a low frequency rumble in the lower body. My deaf buddy couldn’t hear it, but I sure could.
It seemed to come and go depending on conditions.

I bought new tires ‘cus the original tires were 6-7 years old, kept the factory rims and had them balanced (I’m ashamed to say how many numerous times) and road forced by a reputable place. No change in symptoms.

Found a front wheel bearing with excessive play, adjusted by shop, no change in symptoms.

Front brakes were warped. Replaced pads and rotors with MB OEM. No change in symptoms.

I followed a technical bulletin to replace the torque strut arms and bushings. No change in symptoms.
A smart old boy chimed in on the forums like my first Sargent: “Fixed struts do not cause vibrations, things that rotate do!”

I was starting to believe.

I took the car to a MB Dealership, tech drove it:
When accelerating thru 65mph, no vibration.
When decelerating >65, vibration.
When holding speed >65, vibration.

Before finishing the test drive, the tech announced: “According to my careful prosthesis, it’s the drive shaft!” He used to be a doctor, but now makes more working for MB.

I had the driveline, carrier bearing and housing (guys reported to do both), and both flex disks replaced and my car drives, well you know, sort of, perfect!

ps- I have the best balanced tires in North America.

JR

 

I did all of what you said, went through all of what you experienced, and the solution was in fact the driveshaft & drive line. This by the way, on an S350L which has a fraction of the torque the 600 has.
I'm glad I went through that list as I renewed many other widgets that needed replacement anyway but - the 65-85 => will be driveshaft always.

Honestly I think that the reason this happened is that a lot of people just don't understand anything at all about cars, or are too ignorant to realize that something that's vibrating will create run out and thereby generate significantly more problems.
When I bought my S350 used on the test drive I knew I had to deal with the driveshaft (experience from my BMW years)

Running a car with a sub-standard carrier bearing, or worn out flex joints for a prolonged period of time creates so much vibration that it will negatively affect (in my opinion) the driveshaft's balance vis a vie U-joints etc.

It is *INCREDIBLY* difficult to keep one of these at 100.00% however it is much easier to keep it at 100%, than to let it degrade to 80% and then try to get back to 100% after. When one component degrades, it takes many others along with it.

 

So true. 100% is my goal, but so hard to do. You can have/drive one of these for cheap if your goal is just to have a running and functional vehicle to get you from point A to B most of the time. But entirely another thing to have it all working like it is the year 2008. It is always a work in progress, but that's why it is my hobby. If I had a Lexus I'd have nothing to do.

 

Unfortunately a problem like that you’ll be throwing parts at it. Start cheap
if aftermarket wheels: hub centric rings
then motor and trans mounts
anything with driveshaft I’d assume it wouldn’t come and go

 

The tire folks knew about the hub centric rings for aftermarket rims. It can be a major contributor to vibration especially in the steering wheel. I didn’t need to worry about it as my rims are factory and self center.

The subtle vibration of the driveshaft came and went, depending on road conditions and if I was not rested up too tired to feel it.

That subtle nature and having never seen that before, tricked me into replacing parts which were not related, like strut bushings and balancing my tires 27 times. Exaggerating, maybe 13 times.

Sitting shotgun withe MB tech, the diagnostic of the vibration seemed to be repeatable and accurate.

The driveshaft assembly was $1200, the newest part number (latest redesign and probably better materials for reliability or cheaper to make more profit?)

The two shafts arrived assembled to the carrier bearing, balanced, and brand new flex disks mounted on both ends with nuts and bolts included to mount to car.

Had it done by shop to save time.

That last repair item in the proverbial list of vibration causers hit it out of the park.

I learned by experience and from my forum pals, for this S600, V-12, mileage >50k, vibration causers on the “most likely” list are:

Number 1: Tire balancing, road force, and rim centering on hub.

Number 2: Motor/transmission mounts.

Drum roll please;

Number 3: Driveshaft assembly including both flex disks.

Ignore this list if your car is used for any type of racing or 4th of July demolition derbies.

JR

 

I do find some of the language differences anything from interesting, intriguing, weird, or plain stupid - but most of them can be worked around and if one tries you can get over it - but when its just wrong for no sensible reason it becomes frustrating, and I need to shout up

others use the exact terminology, so it must be a USA thing but (so long as I'm not mistaken and you don't mean them) you have two drive shafts they are either side of the differential and put power to the wheels - leaving us in no doubt the bit down the middle of the car is the prop shaft and that way no one need to get a muddle on

drive shafts drive the wheels the prop shaft turns the diff

https://www.autozone.com/diy/drivetr...vs-drive-shaft

A propeller shaft, or prop shaft, is a long, rotating tube that transfers power from the vehicle’s engine or transmission to the wheels, typically in rear-wheel-drive or four-wheel-drive vehicles. Its primary purpose is to bridge the gap between the transmission and the rear differential, transmitting the rotational force necessary to turn the rear wheels. In some vehicles, particularly those with front and rear drive axles, a prop shaft distributes power to different parts of the vehicle

drive shafts are not hollow

 

Should I send my replies into the administrator to have the humor scrubbed.

No soup for you!

Almost as wacky humor as a lot of other people in this forum along with some politics interjected along the way.

I really appreciate your sophisticated level of knowledge on all things Mercedes, but please don’t attempt to regulate my hometown humor from across the pond.

I get my sense of humor from my father, 1943-1945, 86 Fighter Bomber Group A36 and P47 pilot, Rome Arno Campaign all the way to VE Day. 30% loss rate.

The lessons shared in my stories are accurate and provide factual real life solutions. S600 with two drive shafts and carrier bearing in between. Bad carrier bearing.

The forum is informative and mostly fun.

Just another dog face American.

JR

 

not sure I understand the attack on your hometown - but I still need to know if the issue is the "prop shaft" or one of the two drive shafts
Senecat calls it the same way you do... its just wrong