Does a s63 feel "special" compared to the s500/s550 (assuming identical equipment where possible, like abc)?
Is the step as big as going from a BMW 330i to an M3?
I'm not (at all) into prestige and such, i'm just curious about the actual steering feel or engine revving feel or sound.

 

You'll know the second you turn the key. There is more exhaust bark. There is a lot more road noise and feel. The transmission is it's own special beast. The brakes bite much harder. Etc...

AMG is a tuner car like a BMW M. It's very different from a non-AMG S Class.

 

Yes, absolutely. It's a huge difference.
The S500 is a silent, effortless limo. The S63 feels like a different beast. The V8 roar when you start it, the brutal shove in your back when you accelerate, and the sharper steering make it feel like a sports car in a tuxedo.

The step from a 330i to an M3 is a good comparison. It's that kind of jump from a very fast car to a proper performance machine.

 

AMG interiors feel more special to me , their gauge cluster is different too . However , performance wise a tuned M278 could beat a standard S 63 . I know that's a cheat lol

 

I can't find any real differences besides a different color woodtrim and a little oval AMG logo on the seats.
Is there more (that's unavailable as an option on a s500)?

 

I've not driven an S63 but I'm sure others are right about it being a beast. With that said though, what do you want out of it? I accidentally got a lowly 550, but am glad I did due to it's (relative) simplicity--even the M273 engine. Working on an M278 or S63 engine would be a bigger challenge for DIY. Imho, these cars are too old to hammer on them on a regular basis, and therefore I'm cruising, not slamming on the gas. Plus, my ev's are so much faster that practically all gas powered cars now feel slow to me.

 

I can't speak for the S class, but the difference between an E class, the regular version, and the AMG e63 is dramatic.

Like everyone said the minute you turn the key and hear the rev of that engine and the tighter suspension and the grip of the AMG brakes, the more accurate steering, everything about it is special - for me.

"special" is in the eye of the beholder. I know people that can get into my AMG and drive it and just not get the appeal or the special quality of the vehicle. That's a thing too.


so the best advice up there is for you to go drive on yourself and make that determination for yourself; there's this scene in the movie the Polar express, I watch it with my kids every Christmas....

and so the scene goes as we get older as adults we stop hearing the ring of the little Christmas bell. We lose our childhood fascination and magical thinking. The question is will you hear the bell ringing once you're inside AMG or will the car be silent?

@MB2timer has a wonderful thread on "what you love about your Benz" I recommend you all visit at least once

 

More than one Tesla has learned the hard way not to troll my S63 on the highway. I can more than keep up with them ('cept for the crazy Ludicrous models) once the speed is over 80.

Ask any E63/S63 driver about highway roll on power. These things were made for the Autobahn and they do not disappoint at speed.

 

S-63 is nice and goes good. S-65 got the very special interior. Diamond stitched hides. Leather headliner. 604HP/740lb/ft. Drive one if just for the sake of comparison.

 

EVs don't tend to go much over 100, so it doesn't take long to catch-up/pass. And if they try to keep up, they run out of juice long before either V8. It's usually the range being annihilated that slows them down and I suspect that those eco tyres aren't especially grippy at speed.

Even in a 'lowly' S500/550, the mid range shove is pretty decent. Visually there's not much to distinguish an S63 from an S350L CDI with the AMG styling pack, so it boils down to the way it drives and goes compared to the standard V8. It's a totally different lump to the stock M273 so it should be at least a little bit more spicy.

 

Absolutely. It is night and day. There is no way you can turn a "550" to an AMG. You can tune it all you like, but the AMG is an upgrade from everything: better brakes, ABC suspension, torquier engine, throatier engine, exhaust rumble, a sportier transmission, bolstered seating, etc. There is no such thing as "AMG-lite" or "M-lite." The experience will never come close to the real deal. It's "cheaper" on the long run trying to get into an actual AMG car rather than trying to upgrade your way to it. Of course operating and replacement costs are much more, but you have to pay to play. The best part is that its tame in comfort mode when you don't feel like being a rockstar. AMG's are truly special!

 

It probably depends on the specific year and car.

I haven't owned any S63 vehicles, but I I've owned two W221 S65s and they were quite different. It terms of being a daily driver the 2010 S65 is closer in many ways to the S550 than it is to the 2007 S65.

The 2007 S65 was a *****-to-the-wall hot rod. The only thing I have ever driven that felt like that car were actual souped up hot rods back in the 1980s. That car always "wanted" to go fast. I could melt the tires at 30mph with a flick of the throttle. My wife refused to drive it.

My current 2010 S65 is MUCH more sedate and my wife loves driving it. The exhaust note and ride are similar to the 2007 but the tuning on the 2010 is not as aggressive. It is still blazing fast when you step on it, but you need to tell the 2010 you want to go fast and there is a "1 potato" between when you floor it and it launches which was not there in the 2007.

 

The 2007 has an aggressive aftermarket tune. Good for you! Don’t get caught.

 

Well it was totaled 5 years ago when I was rearended by a Tahoe, but it was a completely stock tune.

 

That is very hard to believe, @auburn2. The s65 was always meant as the most luxurious, it is very unlikely that MB would make it a hotrod.
Did you buy the car new from an official MB dealer?

 

AMG is now a cheap body kit / trim option for std shopping cars - the real AMG bit has pretty much gone forever. The last bastion of a real AMG was the hand built engine's that were a bit special - but lets not discuss chocolate con rods that bend in the breeze and head bolts that have the tensile strength of a stick of rock you dropped on the floor - its all history now - and more like a chip tune of std unreliable Merc engines

the world has basically ended
-
AMG as was, died in 2005 - with real Merc fans getting a mortgage on a Brabus - but I believe even that's now in-house watered down Merc junk too

Alpina is now dead with the founder dying last year a bit early and his lazy halfwit son selling the business into an AMG style body-kit for BMWs

M cars were really dead 20 years back too - they basically gave up as Alpina always made a better car than an M car - Try as the 3 years olds at BMW did, adding 500kg of lard, fatter tyres, nasty suspension that was seldom able to keep the wheels moving in the right direction and a ride handling balance a F1 driver would complain about on a freshly ironed race circuit - somehow meant they never matched a usable power curve, a gearbox that operated with the engine rather than against it, and suspension that actually moved you as you find on an Alpina...

Under german TUV regs any suspension mod basically means they must register as a complete vehicle manufacture - Hence Alpina who improve BMW suspension, put a sensible change map on the gearbox, and put odd pinstripes down the sides, AMG that used to put bigger engines in a Merc, and Brabus that make basically makes Mercs really ugly, were once all officially independent vehicle manufacturers


AMG was established in 1967
1 January 1999, DaimlerChrysler AG (as it was called between 1998 and 2007) acquired 51 percent of AMG shares, and the company was renamed Mercedes-AMG GmbH
1 January 2005, Aufrecht sold his remaining shares to DaimlerChrysler, and since then, Mercedes-AMG GmbH has been a wholly owned subsidiary of the Mercedes-Benz Group.
there were some AMG models in the 1980s with manual transmissions, almost all recent models have used std merc automatic boxes from 5G 7G 9G ranges
the last real engine I thought was a 278 bored back out to 5.5 ltr - in 2011, AMG released the M157 5.5L bi-turbo V8, which has supplanted the M156 in its full-sized cars such as the S-Class and CL-Class
About 2014 they went with turbo'ed to death 4 pots in shopping cars for your mum
The AMG F1 engines from 1994 to date are reworked British engines from Mario Illien and Paul Morgan (of ilmor - who also made most of the Indycart engines for the USA). Merc just paid for some new cam-covers

Alpina's roots can be traced back to 1962, when Burkard Bovensiepen developed a Weber dual carburetor for the BMW 1500
Since 1983, Alpina has been recognized by the German Federal Ministry of Transport as an automobile manufacturer thus Alpina-built cars are branded and registered as Alpina instead of BMW, although an Alpina can be serviced at all BMW dealerships, and is fully covered if a warranty issue arises. Alpina automobiles are also sold at some BMW dealerships Till the 2025 take over were its all just junk from now on

 

Well it is what it is. I did not buy it new, but I did have MB replace factory the flash on it with no difference before or after.

The S65 is an AMG car, so it is theoretically meant to be a tuner car regardless. Both of my S65s ride/rode a lot harder than an S600 or S550, you feel every bump and pebble on the road in them and both of them are similar in this respect. Both of them are/were significantly faster than an S550 or S600 too, it is the throttle response and demeanor when driving where they really differ.

The S600 and Maybach are the ones meant to be the V12 luxury flagships, and the S600s I have been in have the same sort of interior appointments as my S65s did, with a much more luxurious ride.

 

I would say the V12 engines in my S65s were pretty special and were "hand built" with a signature. TBH though I never understood while people think being hand built in the 21st century is a good thing. Automated machines can do a much better job when it comes to consistency and reliability.

It was several years ago since I lost my 2007 so I don't remember the guys name who was on the engine, but I had a few minor problems with that engine. While fixing it my friends and I would curse him by name "[first name] [last name] you mother fxxxxx" as we worked on it whenever a bolt was difficult to get off or we broke a piece of plastic or if we ran into another problem. It became a running gag.

I don't really give a crap about the AMG label, and you know a lot more than me about the history, but both my cars are/were fast, extremely fast for a full size car and I did not get the same in the S600s or S550s I've driven.

 

hand built is meant to mean a slower more thorough inspection and matching up of parts and clearances to give a smoother far better engine, more able to deliver the goods...

every part of any engine has inferior machining of some parts somewhere, and clearances that are sub optimal - and whether a robot (to some extent), or an assembly line worker on almost min wage is throwing a bunch of random bits that passed the "it'll do dimension checks" it should never be able to match what an expert who cares and has vastly more understanding of what the bits in his hands are meant to do

somehow certain 6.3 ltr head bolts would snap like a carrot in use and then decent quality studs or bolts where exchanged after the owner had the car - doing this well was highly important - how AMG did that all wrong is rather alarming - maybe it was a slight of Merc hand to drop the take over price?

as for the bending rods - I suspect its hoodies with little mechanical empathy running a bodge tune - and ripping it off the line on a stone cold engine - no production engine, no matter what brand or what build std likes that... 10 miles to get a min 80C oil temp, then a few gentle rips to wake things up - before launching it on max attack is the correct way - making 550 / 600 BPH on a stone cold piston and bore, will often cause it to nip up momentarily as you get violent temp increase unevenly across the component and suddenly the rod is now history (and the whole engine should go in the skip)

I have no idea if drag racing nerds running no cooling system and pumping methanol in at 100kg a second trying to get 1200 bhp care and or understand its not the way forward on something meant to get a rebuild at 120k miles vs their rebuild every 25 seconds - or whether they realise they tend to be running slightly different materials and clearances to us normal humans

 

Auburn.... If the newer car was noticeably slower than the 2007 it had an issue. Same engine, transmission, final drive ratio, software. It should RIP! My 2008 went like heck. the 222 S-65 goes even better with more ratios in the box.

Botus... Bent rods are about detonation. Broken head bolts were inferior materials. The updated bolts are fine. That was only on the naturally aspirated 6.2. The Twin Turbo 5.5 liter bent eight goes like hell.

 

My 2010 does rip. Don't think for a second it isn't fast, it is extremely fast. It is not so much the speed as the character, specifically the throttle response.

The 2010 and 2007 do not have the same software, they don't even have the same ECU and I think this is the difference.

Also the fully dressed engines are not 100% identical either because they do not cross reference on the used auto parts market, the 2007 actually crosses with engines from earlier vehicles. So if you are talking oil pan to engine covers and flexplate to balancer, with all the sensors and everything else they bolt on to the engine, those are not the same either. Mercedes has at least 5 different part numbers for the M275 6.0L AMG engine.

 

I get what it is supposed to mean, but in 2025 or even in 2000 it is not going to work well in terms of producing a higher quality product. The days of hand built = quality are long gone and no human is going to do this type of thing as reliably as a machine. Heck with modern machines they even automate the inspection and calibration steps and do it to an accuracy that exceeds human ability.

Automakers mostly figured that out back in the 70s and 80s. They stopped inspecting and instead invested in processes and automation, quality improved and the failure rate for components improved dramatically.

I'll throw myself out there. I have rebuilt multiple engines (mostly Buick engines, and one Chevy). All of those were a hand-done job and took hours and hours to do and I think I did a pretty darn good job as far as rebuilders go. I am not foolish enough to think that any of those engines are more reliable than they were coming out of the factory with comparable parts.

 

no decent engine is done any other way - the ONLY way to have a good engine is in the hands of an engine building expert

a robot we could afford will have no idea what is going on and likely never will - yes for some joke models, where as I already said a bunch of random bits where nine out of ten components are about right and the neighbour you hate might end up owning it - that tends to be OK

 

I think that is feel good nostalgic BS and I don't think any data actually supports it. A good hand built engine from a reputable engine builder will typically be warrantied for 1 year and will generally last about 100k miles. A modern factory built engine with similar components is typically warrantied for 100k miles and will generally last 300,000 or more if the car lasts that long.

Ironically hand builders actually benefit from automation too. When I started building engines 40 years ago you would order your pistons and then size your cylinders to match because of the variation in the hand machining (when forged pistons were machined by hand). Now you order your pistons a specific size and the CNC cuts them exactly that size. That same precision in machining translates to many of the processes associated with engine building.

 

I got to drive a CL63 (c216) today.
I have mixed feelings: the engine sounds and feels great, the gearbox is also more alert and snappy.
But i don't want one for every day use: too loud and too thirsty.