Official 2015 Mercedes S-class Coupe
#151
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
And it works the same way across a lot of other brands. Do you think the 1-series makes an m5 guy any less likely to buy the m5? Or a 7 guy to buy a 7? Hell no. But what do you think initially attracted the 1-series guy to BMW? Certainly not the 1 series! It's because the m5's and B7's etc are such bad-asses! You don't sell a guy one car, you sell him several over his lifetime.
I personally don't think M-B as as aspirational as they were 10 years ago, because of how accessible they are. And the closer and more elements the lower models have shared with the upper ones, IMO the less likely people will be to spend big bucks for high priced M-B's, as to them, M-B is too accessible a brand and they "already get that at a lower price". For the record, at the Auto Show here, I heard a lot of people looking at the GLA and CLA (namely the GLA) saying things along the lines of "WTH is that, since when did Mercedes start making cars that compete with Hyundai?"
It's the same reason I wouldn't aspire to get a 7 Series if I wanted to spend more money but stay with BMW. Aside from the fact that I don't need it, it looks too much like the 5er, in fact, the 5 looks more dynamic, drives more dynamic, has an almost identical interior (nicer designed IMO but with less leather surfaces), and is on the exact same chassis. To me, if the 7 sales have truly declined (which sounds odd as I've heard it's the best selling 7 of all time?) it'd have at least something to do with the fact that the 5 completely cannibalizes it, and gives you no reason to really "want" the 7 unless you require the size.
#152
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2014 Mercedes S550
The problem with this argument is that it's gonna take years to see who's right. But right now Germancar1 is in the lead, because the S is selling like a new Apple phone release. And it is the best S I've ever seen or owned.
#153
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
However, my argument has nothing to do with initial sales. Firstly, any new S no matter how it looks will sell out, it's a new S Class, which is a monumental event in the automotive world. I'm not downplaying the W222 in any way as it's truly worthy of its initial sales as it's a marvel in multitudes of ways, but that's just how it is when a new S launches. It has no bearing to my point whatsoever. M-B sales overall also don't because I'm criticizing the downgrading of the brands "perceived prestige" to chase mass sales, which was never what M-B stood for.
The CLA of course will sell like crazy, which is what bothers me right there. Slapping a Star and a mini CLS styling language on a Front Wheel Drive sub-compact car that starts at $30K is a cheap shot in an attempt to exploit the M-B cachet to grab buyers. To me that car isn't representative of M-B in any way. It lacks in sophistication, the interior is really no better than any other car from any other brand in that price range (in fact worse than many if not most cars in that price range, IMO, I found it very unbecoming for M-B), and it doesn't drive great at all. It drives "fine", but doesn't offer anything to really brag about. It isn't super quiet, isn't super smooth, and isn't all that dynamic nor sporty, if at all.
However, yes, you take all that cachet M-B has built up since the beginning of the car, and launch it at the lowest entry price ever in the U.S, it will sell out.... it BETTER sell out! And a new S as well better sell out. Both need to be massive sales hits for at least their first couple of years or else something will look wrong.
#154
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2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
If the car sells then you have no point. People reacting to the GLA and CLA at an autoshow are you kidding me? That doesn't mean jack ****. They most likely aren't buyers.
You simply don't get how brands like Mercedes, BMW and Audi have to adapt in order to survive. This whole thing about the top end selling less is the very reason why they're going downmarket. The high-end market shrunk post 2008. Common sense. If the top end was like it used to be Audi, BMW, Lexus and Mercedes wouldn't be reaching downward. BMW just launched a FWD Minivan that I see no mention of here. What does that do to their brand?
M
You simply don't get how brands like Mercedes, BMW and Audi have to adapt in order to survive. This whole thing about the top end selling less is the very reason why they're going downmarket. The high-end market shrunk post 2008. Common sense. If the top end was like it used to be Audi, BMW, Lexus and Mercedes wouldn't be reaching downward. BMW just launched a FWD Minivan that I see no mention of here. What does that do to their brand?
M
#156
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Damn....
What was once an enjoyable thread on the S Class Coupe has now turned into a b!tch fest between two or three people for the last three pages...
What a joke...
What was once an enjoyable thread on the S Class Coupe has now turned into a b!tch fest between two or three people for the last three pages...
What a joke...
#157
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Amen Sir
#159
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AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
#160
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Its tough to decide which one is more annoying, the troll or the one feeding the troll?
#161
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2012 C300 Sport 4MATIC (current) 2006 C280 Elegance 4MATIC (sold)
TBH I don't really like where MB is going with their styling with their newest cars. The refreshed W212 E63 AMG looks too boy racer to me and the rear end of this S Class like many said looks like a VW CC. Of course one has to see it in person to make a final decision but dang.
#162
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2012 C300 Sport 4MATIC (current) 2006 C280 Elegance 4MATIC (sold)
Dang the old warrior K-A finds himself embroiled in another battle. Not taking sides here but why do people come down on K-A? He's owned MB products before and I remember him criticizing the ride quality of the sport model E350 which was actually well argued. The E60 BMW 545i M Sport is definitely one of the best cars I've ever driven.
The cheapest MB that should be available should be the B Class which as of the newest generation looks and performs great. The A, CLA and GLA should not exist and they seem like a lame attempt at "adapting" to the new market trends. Sure they'll be more solid than Japanese offerings but they're not all that cheap and affordable to begin with once optioned out and will just end up looking tacky in the long run like the early 2000s C Class coupe.
The cheapest MB that should be available should be the B Class which as of the newest generation looks and performs great. The A, CLA and GLA should not exist and they seem like a lame attempt at "adapting" to the new market trends. Sure they'll be more solid than Japanese offerings but they're not all that cheap and affordable to begin with once optioned out and will just end up looking tacky in the long run like the early 2000s C Class coupe.
#163
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Can we please get on topic here and post some more pics of Kate Upton, forget the S-class Coupe
Last edited by cookstar; 02-20-2014 at 11:11 PM.
#164
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Dang the old warrior K-A finds himself embroiled in another battle. Not taking sides here but why do people come down on K-A? He's owned MB products before and I remember him criticizing the ride quality of the sport model E350 which was actually well argued. The E60 BMW 545i M Sport is definitely one of the best cars I've ever driven.
The cheapest MB that should be available should be the B Class which as of the newest generation looks and performs great. The A, CLA and GLA should not exist and they seem like a lame attempt at "adapting" to the new market trends. Sure they'll be more solid than Japanese offerings but they're not all that cheap and affordable to begin with once optioned out and will just end up looking tacky in the long run like the early 2000s C Class coupe.
The cheapest MB that should be available should be the B Class which as of the newest generation looks and performs great. The A, CLA and GLA should not exist and they seem like a lame attempt at "adapting" to the new market trends. Sure they'll be more solid than Japanese offerings but they're not all that cheap and affordable to begin with once optioned out and will just end up looking tacky in the long run like the early 2000s C Class coupe.
But what the hell does all of this have to do with the S class or the S coupe?
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LMAO!!!
#168
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1) Standard sport packages which makes it very hard to locate luxury model variants of cars and they ride a bit too firm for a MB. I know that's odd for a 22 year old like myself to say but I prefer how old Mercs ride and my 06 is the last of the "traditional" MB. If I really wanted sport I would have went for BMW as they always hit the spot on ride and handling.
2) Adding the CLA and GLA. Now people can buy what they want but I don't see how MB can attract new and younger buyers with those specific models. It's not like they're so cheap that more people can access an MB product. A base CLA 250 has nothing going for it and once you check off a few option boxes the price will exceed $40k and they will go the way the original early 00s C Class coupe went.
3) The styling cues are butt ugly. I think the S Class sedan and C Class look great. I saw the C400 at the AutoShow here in Toronto last week and thought it was beautiful inside and out. As for the refreshed E Class W212, it looks too boy racer to me and looks too much even in the AMG models. This new coupe is also the victim of whacky styling.
I'll buy me a C300 or C400 in around 2017 when the prices start to fall on the W205 C Class. MB better never screw that up as it's their bread and butter. I see at least 10 C Classes per day.
#169
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Some make it sound like two clowns sit around MB designing cars that are about to doom the company. Because they make decisions you don't like they must be inept.
While I'd agree big companies can and do make errors, with all the market research they do and as clear as they understand buyer demographics, I'm inclined to believe that just because I may not personally like something, it doesn't mean it won't be successful in the global market space. I'd bet the marketing dept of MB exposed hundreds of people to this design concept. They were probably carefully selected for their love and interest in cars as well as how closely they represented the demographic MB learned was the one to target. Of course, as the concept car of last year is so strikingly close to the production model, they also had an opportunity to gather a broader market consensus.
Those of you that have frequented car boards for years will recall the moans about the M cars. BMW has "trashed the M car line" etc. "No one wants the weight that comes with luxury features on an M car" was the common refrain. Well, they're still selling lots of them.
Soon after that, what we referred to as manuals before than term became nebulous, started to disappear as they weren't selling in the real world market. Of course, that was going to doom them in terms of sales. Not !! Now you have the new 911 Turbo, (just one example), a preeminent sports car, with PDK as the only option. I doubt more than a 5% of the potential buyers will even care and the tiny portion of Porsche owners that lament it on their user boards just drink their own bathwater with inconsequential impact on the global market's reaction.
In many respects this board is like the Rolex boards. Less to 1% of the buyers even know the boards exist, never mind care enough to visit one.
While I'd agree big companies can and do make errors, with all the market research they do and as clear as they understand buyer demographics, I'm inclined to believe that just because I may not personally like something, it doesn't mean it won't be successful in the global market space. I'd bet the marketing dept of MB exposed hundreds of people to this design concept. They were probably carefully selected for their love and interest in cars as well as how closely they represented the demographic MB learned was the one to target. Of course, as the concept car of last year is so strikingly close to the production model, they also had an opportunity to gather a broader market consensus.
Those of you that have frequented car boards for years will recall the moans about the M cars. BMW has "trashed the M car line" etc. "No one wants the weight that comes with luxury features on an M car" was the common refrain. Well, they're still selling lots of them.
Soon after that, what we referred to as manuals before than term became nebulous, started to disappear as they weren't selling in the real world market. Of course, that was going to doom them in terms of sales. Not !! Now you have the new 911 Turbo, (just one example), a preeminent sports car, with PDK as the only option. I doubt more than a 5% of the potential buyers will even care and the tiny portion of Porsche owners that lament it on their user boards just drink their own bathwater with inconsequential impact on the global market's reaction.
In many respects this board is like the Rolex boards. Less to 1% of the buyers even know the boards exist, never mind care enough to visit one.
Last edited by BigHat; 02-21-2014 at 06:39 PM.
#170
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
TBH I don't really like where MB is going with their styling with their newest cars. The refreshed W212 E63 AMG looks too boy racer to me and the rear end of this S Class like many said looks like a VW CC. Of course one has to see it in person to make a final decision but dang.
Dang the old warrior K-A finds himself embroiled in another battle. Not taking sides here but why do people come down on K-A? He's owned MB products before and I remember him criticizing the ride quality of the sport model E350 which was actually well argued. The E60 BMW 545i M Sport is definitely one of the best cars I've ever driven.
The cheapest MB that should be available should be the B Class which as of the newest generation looks and performs great. The A, CLA and GLA should not exist and they seem like a lame attempt at "adapting" to the new market trends. Sure they'll be more solid than Japanese offerings but they're not all that cheap and affordable to begin with once optioned out and will just end up looking tacky in the long run like the early 2000s C Class coupe.
The cheapest MB that should be available should be the B Class which as of the newest generation looks and performs great. The A, CLA and GLA should not exist and they seem like a lame attempt at "adapting" to the new market trends. Sure they'll be more solid than Japanese offerings but they're not all that cheap and affordable to begin with once optioned out and will just end up looking tacky in the long run like the early 2000s C Class coupe.
I should have elaborated. All I meant was that I don't like the direction MB is going in with the addition of pointless vehicles and the styling cues of their newest cars. 3 things irk me about new MBs and that would be
1) Standard sport packages which makes it very hard to locate luxury model variants of cars and they ride a bit too firm for a MB. I know that's odd for a 22 year old like myself to say but I prefer how old Mercs ride and my 06 is the last of the "traditional" MB. If I really wanted sport I would have went for BMW as they always hit the spot on ride and handling.
2) Adding the CLA and GLA. Now people can buy what they want but I don't see how MB can attract new and younger buyers with those specific models. It's not like they're so cheap that more people can access an MB product. A base CLA 250 has nothing going for it and once you check off a few option boxes the price will exceed $40k and they will go the way the original early 00s C Class coupe went.
3) The styling cues are butt ugly. I think the S Class sedan and C Class look great. I saw the C400 at the AutoShow here in Toronto last week and thought it was beautiful inside and out. As for the refreshed E Class W212, it looks too boy racer to me and looks too much even in the AMG models. This new coupe is also the victim of whacky styling.
I'll buy me a C300 or C400 in around 2017 when the prices start to fall on the W205 C Class. MB better never screw that up as it's their bread and butter. I see at least 10 C Classes per day.
1) Standard sport packages which makes it very hard to locate luxury model variants of cars and they ride a bit too firm for a MB. I know that's odd for a 22 year old like myself to say but I prefer how old Mercs ride and my 06 is the last of the "traditional" MB. If I really wanted sport I would have went for BMW as they always hit the spot on ride and handling.
2) Adding the CLA and GLA. Now people can buy what they want but I don't see how MB can attract new and younger buyers with those specific models. It's not like they're so cheap that more people can access an MB product. A base CLA 250 has nothing going for it and once you check off a few option boxes the price will exceed $40k and they will go the way the original early 00s C Class coupe went.
3) The styling cues are butt ugly. I think the S Class sedan and C Class look great. I saw the C400 at the AutoShow here in Toronto last week and thought it was beautiful inside and out. As for the refreshed E Class W212, it looks too boy racer to me and looks too much even in the AMG models. This new coupe is also the victim of whacky styling.
I'll buy me a C300 or C400 in around 2017 when the prices start to fall on the W205 C Class. MB better never screw that up as it's their bread and butter. I see at least 10 C Classes per day.
Note: I'm not implying that everyone here is the latter, so everyone don't get all snark and flame on me here.
#171
Some make it sound like two clowns sit around MB designing cars that are about to doom the company. Because they make decisions you don't like they must be inept.
While I'd agree big companies can and do make errors, with all the market research they do and as clear as they understand buyer demographics, I'm inclined to believe that just because I may not personally like something, it doesn't mean it won't be successful in the global market space. I'd bet the marketing dept of MB exposed hundreds of people to this design concept. They were probably carefully selected for their love and interest in cars as well as how closely they represented the demographic MB learned was the one to target. Of course, as the concept car of last year is so strikingly close to the production model, they also had an opportunity to gather a broader market consensus.
Those of you that have frequented car boards for years will recall the moans about the M cars. BMW has "trashed the M car line" etc. "No one wants the weight that comes with luxury features on an M car" was the common refrain. Well, they're still selling lots of them.
Soon after that, what we referred to as manuals before than term became nebulous, started to disappear as they weren't selling in the real world market. Of course, that was going to doom them in terms of sales. Not !! Now you have the new 911 Turbo, (just one example), a preeminent sports car, with PDK as the only option. I doubt more than a 5% of the potential buyers will even care and the tiny portion of Porsche owners that lament it on their user boards just drink their own bathwater with inconsequential impact on the global market's reaction.
In many respects this board is like the Rolex boards. Less to 1% of the buyers even know the boards exist, never mind care enough to visit one.
While I'd agree big companies can and do make errors, with all the market research they do and as clear as they understand buyer demographics, I'm inclined to believe that just because I may not personally like something, it doesn't mean it won't be successful in the global market space. I'd bet the marketing dept of MB exposed hundreds of people to this design concept. They were probably carefully selected for their love and interest in cars as well as how closely they represented the demographic MB learned was the one to target. Of course, as the concept car of last year is so strikingly close to the production model, they also had an opportunity to gather a broader market consensus.
Those of you that have frequented car boards for years will recall the moans about the M cars. BMW has "trashed the M car line" etc. "No one wants the weight that comes with luxury features on an M car" was the common refrain. Well, they're still selling lots of them.
Soon after that, what we referred to as manuals before than term became nebulous, started to disappear as they weren't selling in the real world market. Of course, that was going to doom them in terms of sales. Not !! Now you have the new 911 Turbo, (just one example), a preeminent sports car, with PDK as the only option. I doubt more than a 5% of the potential buyers will even care and the tiny portion of Porsche owners that lament it on their user boards just drink their own bathwater with inconsequential impact on the global market's reaction.
In many respects this board is like the Rolex boards. Less to 1% of the buyers even know the boards exist, never mind care enough to visit one.
i agree with this, what's good for business is what goes out the door. these boards are opinion pieces, and i agree with the critiques of the designs, but the producer knows what he is doing from a spreadsheet & chart perspective.
porsche is a good example. it's become more of a trophy wife in a fur coat with a little dog clientele than a purist shop. they have ride-softening mechanisms and little SUV's and china-specific bubble-butt cars now. they've wandered so far from the core... but business is good!
#172
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Porsche has produced new models, but they still remain the sportiest options in their respective segments so I wouldn't say they've strayed at all. Their cars usually destroy the competition. They have not made a non-Porsche, dud vehicle yet.
M
M
#173
^ the cute-ute and china-fugly segments are not sporty (and don't need to be to get to starbucks & back). being the smartest kid on the short bus doesn't make one a genius. i don't blame porsche though - it's the buyers that suck.
#174
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AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
This has noting to do with China or the Porsche brand. The reality is that most cars in the world, even the most exotic, are used day by day in slow traffic for simple transportation needs and errands, going nowhere fast.
People just like to do this in the nicest ride they can afford
Sorry for staying off-topic...