Germancar1

Wrong, but enough is enough. What is this the S63 AMG thread or the how Mercedes is doomed because they don't make an EV thread?

M

WEBSRFR

Yeah I agree with you completely on that. The P85D is going to affect the sales of the entire AMG lineup to a greater extent than the S550 as it is even faster than the 3.5s E63 at around the same price. I'm not generally a super sports car buyer but I got sucked in so the appeal is wider.

I wish there was more than one car manufacturer delivering this level of EV performance but as you said in 5 years it will be interesting to see how things develop as the Germans are all working on their own high performance EVs but their release dates are years away:

http://stocks.org/automobile/porsche...s-money/27012/

WEBSRFR

Not at all... I totally get why someone would buy a S550 and I respect and to a certain extent even agree with some of that thought process. Over the Model S, the S550 offers:

• Superior Comfort
• More Luxury
• Better interior
• Status/Presence
• Familiarity with a known, respected, and reputed brand.
• and likely a bunch of other things

We had an in depth discussion a while ago and I just wanted to report back that the AWD I was waiting on had arrived and that I pulled the trigger on a Tesla P85D because it offered a whole different combination of technology, performance and features.

Whether we drive a Tesla or Mercedes we are all car enthusiasts and I think we can engage in a polite discussion understanding, appreciating, and respecting different points of view.

C280 Sport

While I agree with this comment and respect it I just wish the thread jacking on forums would stop and moved to over to off topic section. My point is being for your love of the Tesla or another non MB Car on a MB Forum it should be taken to the Off topic section or the specific forum of the car as it is professional and respectful to the OP and the other members.

LovinMercedes

Thank you.

WEBSRFR

Well this topic came up during the discussion when someone else brought up Tesla and others chimed in. And FWIW I consider this whole discussion to be about the "bad ***" nature of the S63 but if you are talking about a bad *** S63, a discussion about a competing offering by Tesla that we just placed an order for is not entirely outside the scope of relevant topics of discussion when that vehicle offers a 3.2s 0-60 and nearly 700hp.

Or would you prefer the thread to be about how bad *** the S63 is and how nothing could possibly compare to or be more bad ***?

It's interesting that you consider any discussion of a competing offering to be off topic. Based on the contributions to this topic by other long time forum members, some would disagree with your assessment.

I thought the discussion has been respectful and the OP's premise that the S63 is badass was established a long time ago and I agree that the s63 is indeed bad ***. I think the P85D is even more bad *** though.

hyperion667

how can a 17 page thread be JACKED anyway???
LOL!!!!

C280 Sport

Yea it came up. While you only continued to take it more into a rant turning it into your voice of opinion 100X over like you have in most of your other post on here including this one quoted. It gets to the point of just being annoying and a broken record. Also, known as a troll...

WEBSRFR

Like most of my other posts? I bet less than 5% of my over 1,500 posts have anything to do with Tesla.

Yes, it is rich to be called a troll by the guy who joined the forum 3 years after I did. Everyone who has an opinion contrary to you is a troll in your tiny little world apparently.

There are many who respectfully contributed to this discussion excluding a very small few who apparently concluded some form of heresy was being committed against the church of Mercedes.

If you can't handle discussions and opinions of others in a public form that might be contrary to yours, you may want to stick to talking to yourself in the shower

I just reported back that with the availability of AWD I pulled the trigger on a P85D and apparently sharing that news, which some other forum members were able to discuss about in a respectful and intelligent manner, was just a little bit too much for you to handle. In any case, thanks for sharing your opinion and I hope you get over it

C280 Sport

Yawn.... Sorry it doesn't bother me that someone on the internet thread jacks. Believe I sleep well at night. I have nothing against your choice in cars but your redundant comments become annoying. Now please go and enjoy your new car. Run along now.

C5DRVR

From the Wall Street Journal today: Tesla reported a wider loss of $74.6 million versus $38.5 million a year earlier. It also lowered it's forecast for full year Model S sedans by 2,000 vehicles. The market has spoken!!!

Germancar1

I still think they're going to end up in the hands of GM, Toyota or Daimler. They're onto something big and it deserves to live, but I don't think they can make it on their own.


M

K-A

You didn't get the memo? Anyone who doesn't enthusiastically preach thy word of Mercedes is a "troll".

And you guys need to read the earnings releases better. Tesla is investing in their business. They can turn a massive profit if they want to, but are CHOOSING to invest in continuing to disrupt the auto market.

Model S demand is outstripping supply and that is the ONLY reason any sales forecast cuts would be made. They anticipate an INCREASE of 50 percent in Model S sales next year, which will likely largely outpace the S Class yoy increase even though the Model S is years older.

GM or the like won't be buying them. Tesla is already valued nearly as high as the biggest auto manufacturers in the world, and many expect to be the most valuable in the future.

DATURK

soon tesla owners will be posting on "S63 AMG Bad A...." thread for "TESLA for SALE"....

Germancar1

So wait a min, they cut the sales forecast because demand is outstripping supply and the expect more sales next year? Makes sense to me.

No a troll is someone who keeps repeating the same thing over and over and over and in this case thinks that the S-Class is the sole competitor and the only car in the whole wide world that will be harmed by Tesla, yet the S rules the sales charts.

M

DATURK

:...lol

K-A

They're a startup who's gearing up to launch their second volume model next year. They're just not able to keep up with demand yet and have a couple or more thousand models that they will have to push to delivering next year. Musk has clearly stated that they have no interest in turning a profit right now, they'll spend every penny and more into future sustainability drivers.

They forecast 50% Model S growth next year, and that'll probably be lowballing it. The S Class IS the market because it HAS BEEN the market. Tesla is about looking to the future because they're still in such infantile stages that it's hard to get a grasp on where they'll go. If the Model S gains over 50% growth next year, maybe it'll surpass S sales (again?). The W222 is new so its sales are inflated by the initial phase, once it gets into its 3rd model year (Model S is already a couple of years older so naturally at a sales disadvantage) it can be a clearer picture.

Also the Model S isn't developed in nearly as many countries or even counties as the S Class, yet sales are still competitive. They just released them in China. Imagine what popularity garnered there and in EU, etc. can do.

K-A

Btw, "cut sales forecasts" is hogwash. There's a much more intelligent dynamic to that. The stock wouldn't pop 5% on an earnings release if they simply "cut sales forecasts". C'mon people.

Germancar1

So again, sales are up and demand is outstripping supply (per you), but they're forecasting to sell less? NONE of that makes sense, no matter how much double talk you come up with. They aren't just arbitrarily doing this, there has to be a problem of some sort.

Outselling the S-Class seems to be an obsession of yours yet aren't you the one that sales don't mean anything nor should they matter? What does the Tesla outselling the S-Class prove? Of course it might at some point since it is still being rolled out across the world and the S has already been on sale for a year now. Doesn't matter how old the Tesla is, it is NEW to the Chinese and other markets.



M

K-A

Actually I'm not obsessed with Model S sales, I'm just correcting a lot of hyperbole and misinformation on the subject. I will admit that I'm more interested on Tesla business than I am the car. I like the car but it doesn't 100% speak to me. I'm more fascinated with what it's doing within the business and Elon Musk as an innovator. I, like many, treat Tesla as somewhat more of a technology company than a car company, which is why I'm not too emotionally connected to the product yet (but close) but am a big supporter of the business. Tesla is also a true barometer of where the world is trending.

Read this thoroughly. It answers all your questions. Musk is very clear that demand isn't close to an issue. They literally can't make them fast enough. Delays are also contributed to ramping up their second ever volume car, with limited production capacity.

www.forbes.com/sites/markrogowsky/2014/11/05/tesla-q3-earnings-live-blog/?optimizely=a

The stock would never rise as much as 7 percent on any notable issues. 2015 guidance is very strong.

K-A

Btw, anyone have a direct quote where they're "forecasting to sell less?" other than one guy who said that above who's probability short and loopy from that?

The only thing resembling that is them having to move a couple thousand cars into next year's forecast because they are running into issues in keeping up with demand along with ramping up for Gen 3. Again, their '15 FY guidance was ABOVE the Street. As in RAISED forecasts.

Germancar1

What misinformation has been given here, other than someone saying the Model S was outselling the S-Class? That is the misinformation I have seen here regarding Tesla.

That said, thanks for the link. Good reading. They're having production problems, that I get. You made it sound like they were just holding back production for next year, which didn't make sense.


That said, 50K Tesla Model S' a year worldwide is not even close to the 90-100K the S sells worldwide. The S has already done a 100K in its first year.

M

K-A

Yeah, the Model S probably won't nor should sell to S Class levels, at least yet. But how close it has gotten, so quickly, is what's really the story. The brand new W222 will obviously pull ahead more as the last year of the W221 had some months where the Tesla outsold it (?). It can be likely that the first year of the W222 will be its highest selling year, unless there's some production teething issues holding it back.

Tesla's next growth driver for the Model S will have to be internationally, and if it catches on elsewhere like it has here (especially China) then it'll be a huge boost.

WEBSRFR

Oh just get over yourself. You have nothing to offer in terms of a substantive discussion or a rebuttal to anything I've said other than the fact that apparently you can't handle someone comparing one car to another. Get over it.

And yes, I will certainly enjoy the P85D when it is delivered to us in December (already received the VIN!) and I will report back on what I think of it as another forum members requested. Since you are not able to handle any discussion or comparison to a Non Mercedes product try not to throw a fit when that happens

WEBSRFR

While you reported on a few selected facts it represents in my opinion an ignorant and selective analysis of their 3Q financials. After retooling their entire assembly line, they just ramped up production to 1,000 vehicles a week and on track to deliver 33,000 vehicles as opposed to 35,000 this year. They are ~2,000 units shy because their production line was shut down for nearly 3 weeks while it was configured to build the Model X.

And of course they are loosing money as they are a startup company investing to ramp up to 100,000 units within the next 2 years and about 500,000 in about 4-5 years.

Have you ever owned a company or a startup? Expenses at the beginning are necessary investments as you build out your product line. Their key measure of success or failure is their per unit profit which is around 28% right now and that ranks up quite high as far as profit margins in the automotive industry.

I wish my company was about to double our sales next year with a 3 month backlog of orders to fill as is the case with Tesla.

And yes, the market has spoken and after the 3Q financials were reported the stock is now around 240. Apparently the market disagrees with your analysis.