When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
Originally Posted by Wolfman
If I am reading this correctly, the S-Class while being rated excellent on most or very good on all important aspects of the car is rated poor overall due to audio system issues?
The individual model year ratings are "absolute" while the overall reliability ratings are "relative". If a particular car for instance is rated "very good" in all categories for 2016, that result might still be "poor" reliability "relative to" the average 2016 car. If another car is rated "very good" in all categories for 2014 that result might be "fair" rather than poor reliability "relative to" the average 2014 car...because cars will normally develop more problems over time.
Below is an example of sorts...the Ford Focus for 2016 isn't rated "poor" in any individual category, but overall it IS rated "poor" in overall 2016 reliability, because its performance across categories is poor relative to other 2016s.
So presumably the S-Class' overall expected reliability is rated poor because the average 2015 car would have more "excellent" category ratings than does the S-Class:
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
I think someone had asked how CR weights the categories in determining overall predicted reliability, and I don't know the answer. But JD Power doesn't make the S-Class' predicted reliability look so good either. It gets 2 circles, which is in JDP's scheme the lowest possible rating:
CR used to be easier to read, but in an attempt to attract younger subscribers, they are doing a lot of things differently. Also their printed magazine reviews of cars are much less detailed than in the past.
There is a difference between predicted reliability and model year reliablity. Predicted is based on survey results from most recent three years. Model year is based on actual survey results for each year. Results often reported in two different issues.
There is also a substantial difference between ratings based on road tests and reliability ratings. The S Class rated number one before the Tesla did on road tests. The Lexus LS rated number one before the S Class did and this is for ALL cars, not just luxury.
CR now tries to combine road test score and reliability into one score.
As for recommended, that is even more confusing. The lack of some safety features as standard will automatically exclude some cars from being recommended.
Not sure, but I think Audio may refer to all in-car electronics or at least used to. They have had a hard time determining where to place all the electronic systems that are now in most cars. Audio, nav, phone, ad infinitum.
Miss the good old days when electronics was an AM radio with 5 push buttons.
Also. Interesting article by Associated Press on "Tesla to sell customizable solar roof panels." It refers to Tesla merging with Solar City, Elon Musk is chairman of that as well and his cousins run it.
Tesla shares have been downgraded from buy to neutral by Goldman-Sachs saying the potential Tesla Motors & Solar City merger might delay release of the Model 3.
While Tesla Motors did make a profit ($22 million) this past quarter for first time in three years, Solar City lost $250 million. Neither Tesla nor Solar City has had sustained profitability.
Less than 1% of vehicle sales in US are for ALL plug in electric vehicles.
In all fairness Elon Musk has made a business out of doing things that are deemed impossible by others. The entire space industry, mostly comprising of nation-states with essentially unlimited budgets said that it was essentially impossible for a rocket to launch a spaceship into orbit and then land vertically. Musk's' SpaceX not only landed a rocket vertically but did so on an autonomous drone ship floating in the middle of the Atlantic.
I too didn't initially see why he wanted to merge with SolarCity but now it is clear. What he's essentially selling now is a completely off grid solution to power your house and your car. With the Power Wall battery pack you can now go off grid. The energy generated by the solar panels is essentially tax free income as you'd be paying for electricity with after tax income. The newly unveiled Power Wall is cheaper and now stores twice as much energy.
We looked into getting a whole house generator a while back but decided not to. Now we can buy 2 or 3 Power Walls and it will power our entire house for extended period of time as well as store solar energy generated by our roof. We can now do this for half the cost of the whole house generator we were looking to buy.
Also Tesla will now end up owning the massive solar panel factory in NY that was recently completed for pennies on the dollar. For those who don't see where Tesla is going with all this it will be very clear in a year or two.
Also the new Tesla solar product is revolutionary. They've made solar panels essentially look like slate tiles and it is beautiful and covers the whole roof.
In all fairness Elon Musk has made a business out of doing things that are deemed impossible by others. The entire space industry, mostly comprising of nation-states with essentially unlimited budgets said that it was essentially impossible for a rocket to launch a spaceship into orbit and then land vertically. Musk's' SpaceX not only landed a rocket vertically but did so on an autonomous drone ship floating in the middle of the Atlantic.
I too didn't initially see why he wanted to merge with SolarCity but now it is clear. What he's essentially selling now is a completely off grid solution to power your house and your car. With the Power Wall battery pack you can now go off grid. The energy generated by the solar panels is essentially tax free income as you'd be paying for electricity with after tax income. The newly unveiled Power Wall is cheaper and now stores twice as much energy.
We looked into getting a whole house generator a while back but decided not to. Now we can buy 2 or 3 Power Walls and it will power our entire house for extended period of time as well as store solar energy generated by our roof. We can now do this for half the cost of the whole house generator we were looking to buy.
Also Tesla will now end up owning the massive solar panel factory in NY that was recently completed for pennies on the dollar. For those who don't see where Tesla is going with all this it will be very clear in a year or two.
Also the new Tesla solar product is revolutionary. They've made solar panels essentially look like slate tiles and it is beautiful and covers the whole roof.
Still trying to figure out this has to do with the S-Class...
I think someone had asked how CR weights the categories in determining overall predicted reliability, and I don't know the answer. But JD Power doesn't make the S-Class' predicted reliability look so good either. It gets 2 circles, which is in JDP's scheme the lowest possible rating:
If it appears to be too difficult to explain of how the W222 S-Class earned a Poor rating while all relevant features are the opposite, then it just shows how inadequate the publication is for these types of reviews.
Their sample size is also too small to gain any statistically relevant info.
At least car magazines have more defined criteria and it shows better which ones are subjective.
As for JD Powers, the only time I have ever bothered to fill out their survey was when I was really annoyed by MB's lack of quality in the early 2000's.
Still trying to figure out this has to do with the S-Class...
Just responding to a comment someone else made about the tie in with solar. Just showing how the pieces connect with Tesla's strategy since the question was asked. Tesla's ultimate goal goes way beyond building a car company the scale of Mercedes.
Returning back to Mercedes here is a 360 degree immersive video of the new interior Mercedes is building for their next generation of cars.
Just responding to a comment someone else made about the tie in with solar. Just showing how the pieces connect with Tesla's strategy since the question was asked.
If you look again you realize that nobody asked anything.
Also everyone is aware of what Elon is involved in. It would be nice to keep the forum on topic...
I was this close to getting a Tesla Model S. I even put a 240V 50A outlet in one of my garages when I built my house, to prepare for charging the Tesla.
Long story short, I just got a Mercedes S550e and I couldn't be happier.
Tesla announced that it will begin charging for use of its charging stations for all cars sold after Jan. 1.
You still get about 1,000 miles of free long distance driving every year and after that you pay a lot less than the cost of gasoline to fuel up the car. Don't see this being a big deal. Destination chargers still remain free and for those who already have a Tesla or buy one this year they still get free supercharging for life.
You still get about 1,000 miles of free long distance driving every year and after that you pay a lot less than the cost of gasoline to fuel up the car. Don't see this being a big deal. Destination chargers still remain free and for those who already have a Tesla or buy one this year they still get free supercharging for life.
I'd be willing to give it another try if only they started to differentiate their models a little bit more then now (none at this time) and started finally making decent interiors(that big screen tv really rubs me the wrong way).
I guess will have to wait for Porsche Mission.
I'd be willing to give it another try if only they started to differentiate their models a little bit more then now (none at this time) and started finally making decent interiors(that big screen tv really rubs me the wrong way).
I guess will have to wait for Porsche Mission.
I agree with you about them needing to pay more attention to the interior. I have a feeling as the Mission E comes closer to market they will do something special with the interior. Tesla makes improvements to their cars pretty much weekly and they have already rolled out an even better seat design a few months ago with more interior refinements on the way.
As it is they have the market to themselves and have their hands full scaling up production to 500,000 vehicles they are not doing much with the interior at the moment. The current interior is not denting Tesla sales though as the Model S now represents 35% of the market segment based on 2016 Q3 sales in the US. Tesla is now selling more Model S vehicles in the US than the S Class, the new 7 Series, and the CLS combined.
As for the center screen, it represents the best designed most intuitive car interface ever designed. Use it for a few days and you will see how antediluvian the Mercedes interface is with the myriad of all the buttons slathered all over the place is.
The interface below is how I select media to listen to and it integrates my high resolution lossless USB audio, satellite and even Internet radioall in one clean interface. By contrast Command feels like a broken toy when I have to select media.
While I would prefer a more luxurious interior I like how understated the higher end Model S trims are and I would want them to remain that way. I am considering trading in my P85 for a P100D before the year is over so I receive the benefit of lifetime supercharging but I absolutely would not want any silly trinkets tacked on to the car. The fact that with a software update expected in December the P100D will become the fastest production car ever produced is enough for me. 0-60 will become 2.4. If I buy the P100D I might just remove the P100D badge and replace it with a 60D badge
I agree with you about them needing to pay more attention to the interior. I have a feeling as the Mission E comes closer to market they will do something special with the interior. Tesla makes improvements to their cars pretty much weekly and they have already rolled out an even better seat design a few months ago with more interior refinements on the way.
As it is they have the market to themselves and have their hands full scaling up production to 500,000 vehicles they are not doing much with the interior at the moment. The current interior is not denting Tesla sales though as the Model S now represents 35% of the market segment based on 2016 Q3 sales in the US. Tesla is now selling more Model S vehicles in the US than the S Class, the new 7 Series, and the CLS combined.
As for the center screen, it represents the best designed most intuitive car interface ever designed. Use it for a few days and you will see how antediluvian the Mercedes interface is with the myriad of all the buttons slathered all over the place is.
The interface below is how I select media to listen to and it integrates my high resolution lossless USB audio, satellite and even Internet radioall in one clean interface. By contrast Command feels like a broken toy when I have to select media.
While I would prefer a more luxurious interior I like how understated the higher end Model S trims are and I would want them to remain that way. I am considering trading in my P85 for a P100D before the year is over so I receive the benefit of lifetime supercharging but I absolutely would not want any silly trinkets tacked on to the car. The fact that with a software update expected in December the P100D will become the fastest production car ever produced is enough for me. 0-60 will become 2.4. If I buy the P100D I might just remove the P100D badge and replace it with a 60D badge
I'm old school and like to have real buttons and switches, the new wave of using the Command or MMI or all these other central localized systems drive me nuts.
Just had a S550 Cab rental the past few days in LA and even when wanted to turn on a seat massage had to go through the options on the screen and look for it (not a safe way to drive a car at the same time and play with the stupid menus).
That's what I like about my outdated Audi, just press the dedicated button on the seat without taking my eyes of the road and my back is getting a workout pronto.
Not for long though, hear the replacement A8/S8 will have the new system too.....
The screen in Tesla scares the hell out of me, I barely can handle my iphone as it is....
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
Originally Posted by absent
I'm old school and like to have real buttons and switches, the new wave of using the Command or MMI or all these other central localized systems drive me nuts.
I agree that both MB and Tesla have taken "button elimination" too far. It galls me that I have to use the screen to open the trunk or sunroof in the Tesla; obviously, dedicated buttons are in order.
In the S550, I think that what buttons there are should be redesigned to be easy to find by touch rather than by sight. For instance, if I see a guy with a leaf blower or pavement saw at the side of the road, I'd like to be able to find the air recirc button quickly by touch. As it is, the button is identical to the ones to either side.
Overall now that I have experience with both cars, imo I prefer the control ergonomics on the Tesla somewhat over those on the S550. Although the Tesla has fewer buttons (a negative), the touch screen interface is much better than MB's Command. It is easier, quicker, and generally more intuitive to get things done.
Where the Tesla does have buttons, things are generally easier than on the MB. For instance, the Tesla has steering wheel mounted temperature control. Where it doesn't have buttons, sometimes things are easier too; for example, on the MB one needs to use Command to turn the AC completely off...on the Tesla, that is automatic...so if it is 50F outside, MB's AC will still be on and dehumidifying unless turned off through Command, while Tesla's will be off.
Originally Posted by absent
Just had a S550 Cab rental the past few days in LA and even when wanted to turn on a seat massage had to go through the options on the screen and look for it (not a safe way to drive a car at the same time and play with the stupid menus).
A good argument for improving Distronic Plus! One of my uses of Tesla's Autopilot is for when I need to use the touchscreen for something.
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
EVs actually CAN do the Nurburgring well...
From Chinese startup NextEV, the NIO EP9 "around the famed Nurburgring in Germany....The 195mph NIO EP9 has lapped the track, NextEV claims, in just 7m 05.12sec, or around 17 seconds faster than the previous electric car record. Indeed, to put it in context, the EP9's time is only beaten in the all-time list by four road-legal cars, two of them thinly disguised racers, and the other two supercars from Porsche and Lamborghini."...from this CNN article
While I have no doubt that EVs will lead lap times on the Nurburgring track before long as someone in Top Gear once said many perfectly fine cars have been ruined after being tuned for the Nurburgring. The fact of the matter is few of us looking to buy a large premium car in the same size and weight class as the S Class are looking for a track racer.
I'd say that for day to day driving (and occasionally leaving a Porsche Turbo Fart in the dust) the Performance version of a Model S fits the bill very nicely for many people. After all when after 3-4 seconds of acceleration you are flying over the speed limits in many parts of the US at that point it is no longer a matter of whose car is faster but who is a bigger idiot to risk being pulled over.
There are some pretty incredible EVs coming out in the next couple of years. Anyone waiting for the Porsche Mission E and not thrilled with the understated design of the Tesla Model S should definitely look into the Rimac Concept one.
10-30-2016, 06:13 AM
