I guess we should sell off our Patek's and Rolex since Apple watches are better and more accurate. Not sure how in the world artificial sounds (talking exhausts here) beat real sounds. What does that mean? Makes no sense.

As for artificially piping that sound in, I think that is an asinine concept. Roll the windows down and take in that sound, that's what counts for most. Maybe they can add some speakers to the outside? That too would be interesting. How cool.

 

I have leased 8 Mercedes since 1997.

I recently test drove a Tesla. I was thinking about getting one, but was worried about service and quality control issues. But the torque, and smoothness of the engine are remarkable.

I'm glad that Mercedes will have some EV choices when my lease comes up in 2022. My next car will certainly be an EV if Mercedes has one that fits my needs. (I really like the EQA, which should be released by then.)

 

I like the EQC400 Mercedes. Seems like a nice ML Replacement.

 

You won't have to wait for long.

 

If you don't like the fake sounds, you still get performance advantages in an EV vs a similarly-priced ICE car.

 

I can't recall anyone questioning the performance advantages EV's bring. This point is made ad nauseam. I get that, along with all the great tech that will track our every move and compile data to enhance our user experience and make our lives so much better. That being said, I do not have a problem with EV's, and am open to owning one at some point - maybe - but not at the expense of it being the only option and thus a mandate. Tech that makes cars safer is of course always welcome and imperative but not sure about all the other tech overkill. I don't want my car to think for me.

 

I suppose I am not as emotional about the sound as you. Not sure how watches could serve as a metaphor here; not really a relevant comparison unless you pick a similarly priced mechanical or quartz watch.

I posted this coincidently in the S-Class forum, not an AMG forum. I don't recall the exhaust playing a relevant factor on a S-Class.
As to sounds, quite frankly I doubt that there will be a fake sound coming from these cars unless an owner chooses that sound. By default, a Mercedes EV would have it's own type of sound rather than mimicking an ICE engine.

But in all this discussion there appears to be some kind of venting of things that are already a matter of fact. There are few few cars with real exhaust tips. Because they are considered messy. No Mercedes has one and neither does Ferrari, McLaren or Lamborghini.
Fake sounds? Most average MB models have a sound generator and all current SL's have a speaker in the trunk that pipes directly into the exhaust to make the car sound more throaty on startup.

 

Coincidently I don't want my car to think for me either as I might disagree with the decision-making algorithms. That aspect is a conversation about autonomous driving which to me is very different that ICE engines. EV's are not mandated; there are a tiny percentage of sales at the moment but manufacturers are making strategic decisions about where the market is going.
There is no mandate coming form the US either, they are a by-stander at best on this topic.

 

I remember reading that announcement, and it's unfortunate. I own an S600 TT, and the way it delivers its power is what makes it so nice. It's incredibly smooth, and it has the added advantage of not requiring things like balance shafts, since it's in perfect 1st- and 2nd-order balance. There are very good reasons why V12's were so common on warplanes during World War II, and since we haven't yet replaced reciprocating engines with turbines in automobiles, those reasons do remain valid. Don't worry, we'll get to the EV's in a moment. :-)

To address two of the cases for abandoning the V12 format:

1.) V12's do cost more to manufacture than V8's or V6's. However, are they really more expensive to manufacture than V6-hybrid or V8-hybrid systems? Given the latter's complexity, I kinda doubt it.
2.) There are additional frictional losses with a V12 format vs. that of a V6 or even a V8, due to increased surface area. The question is, how much additional friction? I don't know the answer to that, since I haven't measured the total cylinder surface area of the M275 vs., say, the M113K of similar displacement.

Agreed, it's doggone stupid. Let the car sound like it actually does, for better or for worse, but car manufacturers shouldn't be trying to fake it like this.

I see no problem with electric vehicles. Matter of fact, I rather like the idea a whole lot. Consider that they develop maximum torque at 0 RPM, so you take off like a bat out of Hell. Where they lack is top-end, at which internal-combustion engines with properly-matched transmissions excel.

Here's why the relative lack of top-end may not matter much. We don't have an Autobahn like they do in Germany (I wish we did!). Therefore, we're not able to travel at sustained speeds on long trips at, say, 145 to 150 mph. That's where cars like my W220's really excel, from the S430 on up. The only car I have with "in your seat" acceleration is the S600 TT, and as impressive as it is that way, it's greatest strength is sustained Autobahn speeds above 160 mph, due to the drivetrain's "long legs". It's geared that way on purpose. In Deutschland, that's a real asset due to the travel-time savings. It is not in North America. The fastest speed limit in, for example, the United States is currently 80 MPH (130 KPH). My 1994 Honda Civic with 102 HP and 98 lb-ft can do that without much trouble. So, a modern EV would really be a good idea in this continent. That doesn't mean we should stop enjoying V8's and V12's; rather, we should continue to make them yet more fuel-efficient. They're fun! :-) But there's definitely a case for the EV. We should continue to advance them, and we should continue to advance battery technology that would make them yet more practical.

Now, let's address the "decision-making algorithms".

The problem with modern *MOTOR VEHICLES* of any propulsion type, not just EV's, is that there's all sorts of technology that A.) spies on you and reports back to the "mothership", B.) often enforces decisions on you that you wouldn't make, without your being able to turn it off, and worst of all, C.) very, very likely has "back doors" in it. GM's OnStar is an excellent example of this. With OnStar, GM could shut down your vehicle remotely, at any time. That means anyone who has access to your car's computer can do the same thing. We've already had various "hacking" attempts into cars like Jeeps, Teslas, and others in recent years. Now, say the authoritahs feel like they want to shut down your vehicle. Oh, but it's for "lawful purposes", you say? Yeah, so were slavery and Jim Crow, so "lawful" doesn't necessarily make something right. Cops have done no-knock break-in entries into people's homes before with guns pointed and firing. Think they won't make a mistake or abuse such access? Suuuuurrrre they won't. Riiiiiiight.

So, I have no objection to EV's. I welcome them. My objection is to the aforementioned dangers now baked into recent-model vehicles.

 

 

MB's V12 engine have run their course and are antiquated from a design perspective. Given their low sales potential it is literally not worth the R&D to create a successor. That was decided even before anyone thought of EV's.
We had the same engine in our SL600TT, nicely mated with a 5 speed tranny. Car felt smooth with oodles of torque but in the scheme of things, MB's modern V8 outperform them, and a performance hybrid even more so. They lack the smoothness though.

In regards to fake sounds no need to wait for EV's, it is already common practice on many MB's you buy today. Not agreeing with it personally on ICE's but it is reality.

Regarding my comment off "decision-making algorithms" you may have misunderstood. I am referring to autonomous driving and likely at level 5. This is completely hands-off under all situations. Sounds like SciFi but isn't that far in the future. At that point, accident awareness/outcomes would be performed by the computer. One of the common examples is an unavoidable collision in which the "human" value of all parties is assessed. Car full of kids vs some old guy...If only one could survive, who should it be?

 

No emotion, I just don't see the correlation between luxury goods and make believe. What's next no more real leather, will they take that away too at some point? We won't be able to tell the difference there as well I suppose, new product is better blah blah. You pay top dollar for the best. Make believe belongs on entry level cars, not Daimler products. Just because other cars have it doesn't mean it's the right thing. Pretty telling when MB has to resort to "other cars are doing it also."

Unfortunately, the exhaust note on my 2015 SL is pretty faint. I can barely hear it when I'm outside of the car. Maybe my car has that feature or not, can't tell.

 

I thought your apple watch comparison was spot on. I drive a 10 cyl w side pipes. I like sound on a car thats suposed to make sound.

 

Viper?

 

I guess you are in for more bad news

This is another move that I don't agree with but this is happening as we speak. Leather will go away in many cars. Clearly not in the US besides Tesla who has removed all leather from their cars, calling them Vegan interiors. Last one to go is the leather steering wheel from the Model 3. Most German car manufacturers are doing the same as more and more customers are demanding animal free and sustainable environment materials. Coincidently not driven by the manufacturer. The new EQS Vision has no more leather either and this is a S-Class level car...

Porsche Taycan is leather-free by default and but offers leather for the same price. That car is a step up from the S63, price-wise...

 

Well you're full of good news.

Cant say I'm surprised, leather is just another item in the way of the ultimate goal. Curiously, what will distinguish cars in the future? If everything is EV, which at some point it will be, won't all cars have hyper acceleration with all the tech wizardry anyone would want? Will we need as many manufacturers as we have? What will define luxury?

 

Think it's a coincidence that a couple days after announcing the ICE development ceasing that MB agreed to an almost $1B fine for diesel sins.? (And the government is not finished with them)
Her 's a clip[ of VW's misery
"Total, the VW Group has spent more than $30 billion in fines, buybacks, and fixes globally, but its diesel scandal isn't over yet. On Tuesday, CEO Herbert Diess together with Chairman Hans Dieter Poetsch and former CEO Martin Winterkorn were charged by German authoritieswith market manipulation. The executives are alleged to have deliberately delayed informing markets of the financial fallout related to the scandal." from Motor Authority.

 

Probably not. Just moves the needle quicker I guess.

 

I am informing other members here of some of the changes which doesn't mean I actually like them all. I love tech and power so EV's are cool but also love well executed leather interiors. All our cars have upgraded interiors. On the sound I am ambiguous but can see great potential. I think most are just surprised that the sound of many ICE cars are already part-fake (or as it's called "enhanced").

But luxury is being redefined every day. Who would have guessed that you can spend thousands for sneakers?

 

Thanks for the info Wolfman, but a sad day, IMHO. I personally will never buy an EV and probably won't be on this earth long enough for the full death of the ICE, so off to manufacturers that offer what I want in the meantime.

 

I think you're right that EV makes it "easier" for a company, even a startup with no experience in cars, to make a fast car. We definitely have a greater number of companies in the car business for the near term, partly as a result. You know that when Dyson, which made your vacuum, pours money into EV development (their car is due in 2021). Or when a startup like Rivian gets an order for 100,000 units of a delivery van from Amazon.

But there is still plenty of differentiation between a Taycan and a Model S, for instance, starting with interiors, even if you get the Taycan without leather.

 

Back in the 1970, when Ferrari was running their flat V12 in F1 and Niki Lauda was driving and went on to write a book,
the V12 F1 engine of that era was 520-odd HP at 11,500 RPMs {This was before Renault figured out pneumatic valve springs}
The engine was reported to be 15-20 pounds heavier than the V8s
The engine needed about 5 more gallons of fuel (200 pounds)
And the added power basically cancelled out the fuel and weight.
It's all in Lauda's book--"The art and science of Grand Prix Racing".

<snip>
The V12's greatest strength is its buttery smoothness, quietness at cruising speed, and mountains of torque anywhere in the RPM range.

 

Pretty pathetic comment really.

 

yup.

 

It's not just Mercedes. Porsche is just a few years from only selling EVs.

Their Taycan EV will likely become their best selling model with the first year production already sold out.