Wolfman

A pretty dramatic step that doesn't seem to have received a lot of attention.

The latest generation of ICE engines in the GLS and upcoming S-Class will be the last ICE engines that Mercedes is developing.
The company will focus solely on developing new electric (and hybrid based on current ICE engines). Nothing will come unless they will be lifting the development hold.

So, this is ending a 100+ years of designing ICE engines from the oldest automaker in the world...

My thoughts are that this is not terrible; Mercedes now has a whole generation of what are considered the best ICE engine designs on the market. I expect them to lead the electric sector as well once they finally get moving

superangrypenguin

My take on this may be wrong but P0 hybridization doesn't add much outside of a lithium ion battery, a 48V system, a DCDC converter and a ISG.

By this definition ICE engines will be around for a while.

Wolfman

Of course ICE engines will be around for a while; after all they don't stop building them but any future development will cease.
Plug-in Hybrids will be an essential bridge as there is no way EV's can replace them soon. There is simply no enough charging infrastructure which will require Trillions, not Billions to build-out.

That said, plus-in hybrids will become more capable with more higher capacity batteries and add-on motors. The upcoming 800hp V8 Hybrid (73) engine for AMG model is a good example of that.

1bad540

Thats sad. what sadder is all the talk of things that are being developed for Millenials. Millenials arent buying benz's btw, or bmws in fact they dont buy cars at all. They also dont buy homes for the most part, its the biggest generation of renters. So up your rental portfolio and hold onto your gas engines. Lol

Wolfman

This has nothing to do with millennials. Zero. German car manufacturers have to cut emissions/particle output to meet legal requirements in Germany and other countries. This isn't some future problem, this is happening now that some older cars with higher emissions (as in 10 year old cars) are not allowed to drive in some cities anymore. Guess what that does to resale values...
Plus China is the worlds largest car market and manufacturers have to move to electric to continue selling there. For manufacturers these are existential changes.

C280 Sport

Legal requirements from enough millennials demanding action about climate change because they honestly think someone V8 S Class driving a car 15,000 mile a year is destroying the earth

But yes you are correct about China as they tend to set the trend for the MB Market. Hence why there is a huge lack of interest in the MB Convertibles as well. Also, is there a article about this out?

Wolfman

Millennials don't run Germany nor are there enough V8 S-Class models to count on two hands there They are a rarity in Germany. Issue is they are following the same stupid trend of having more SUV's instead of anything else, including SL's.
So the US is a trendsetter for SUV's and pickup trucks and China for EV's. Go figure...

I read it in the AMS and other German mags but there are plenty of articles in English. Here is one: https://www.financialexpress.com/aut...n-evs/1711989/

absent

The new environmental requirements are now dictated by a 16 year old mentally retarded girl from Sweden.

JohnDoeMB

Too bad Mercedes main market is the EU.


The Trump Administration revoked the California People's Republic ability to enforce special emissions regulations on cars. Previously, auto manufacturers were only producing a single car to meet the criteria for CA's ridiculous standards; now auto manufacturers can build more powerful cheaper cars... https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/18/u...emissions.html

I'm hoping to buy a MB V12 in the next couple of years, really too bad that they stopped the development, but hopefully not production until the very end... Or perhaps the extended continuance for the US market.

I know I won't be buying a car without at least V8.



"EcoBoost In-Line 4CY Quadruple Super-Turbo Gas Turbine Charged 88 Valve, with Cylinder Shut Off, Meets 8 Y/O Climate Protection Activist Standards, Runs on Bagged Cow Farts, All Emissions collected and Stored in Tow Behind Trailer"

ygmn

Now when I was in China for business trips (2013-2016) I never ever saw and electric car other then golf carts at large manufacturing plants.

Cars and trucks were all Clunkers or Diesel - Rare few fancy cars owned by the elite but they are rare on streets since they all drive so bad as every car has a dent.
Taxes are based on engine size so peeps buy small engine cars and manufacturers would have smaller engines then we have here for sure.

They love Buicks and Volkswagons.

Now I was in small city of only 9 million... and yeah stuff changes in 3 years ,,, but from talkign to my friends over there not much has changed.

Only day they have clear sky is when the wind blows hard..

places

They've pretty much hijacked the party. Taking all fun out.

Mitch Alsup

Perhaps if there economic situations were better, they would buy houses and cars.

Mitch Alsup

In 20 years, you will not.

Wolfman

Some of these comments crack me up. If the car sounds right and moves like I want to I couldn't care less if there is a hamster wheel under the hood, let alone aV8 or V12. At this point few people seem to have driven any EV's? There clearly is a need to satisfy the auditory senses (well, maybe not on the S-Class), but electric motors drive better than any ICE engines. There are literally only upsides. 100% torque from 0 rpm. Absolutely linear output. Porsche, Mercedes and other have recognized that there is a driving improvement over what we have today. The Taycan and other European EV's are trying to wrap a quality car around that tech unlike Tesla which excites as an EV and disappoints as a car.

In terms of sound, silence would be what is desired in a luxury car. Porsche is offering a sound generator for the Taycan. My assumption is that over time you can pick whatever interior and exterior sound scape for your car.

syswei

Wolfman is spot on, guys. Those of you worried about engine sounds should note that AMG head Tobias Moers has indicated that AMG may actually offer drivers the ability to customize their AMG EV (fake) drivetrain sounds, as mentioned in this article that I had posted in the EV thread. Obviously, AMG understands that buyers care about this issue.

MTrauman

Your hope for a a new MB V12 will be very difficult to find in a couple of years unless you want a Maybach S650. S600 will not be available and S65 final edition with limited production is either in the process or completed by now. You may have to get a new BMW M760 since they will have the V12 through the anticipated 2023 year.

MTrauman

Some additional info for JohnDoeMB on the V12.

places

Oh Boy, how exciting. Perhaps some fake exhaust tips to go with it!

syswei

Maybe it wouldn't be "exciting" but to some drivers it might be an "interesting" feature if they were able to select from normal EV quiet, or quieter noise-cancelled, or V8, or V12, or W16, or F1, or top fuel dragster, etc. type sounds...and on top of that, have control over the volume of such sounds.

Wolfman

I was thinking Tie Fighter

Wolfman

Many people couldn’t tell if its fake. BMW M5 pumps fake engine sounds into the cabin already, making the car sound better on the inside than out...

And M5 drivers are more enthusiastic than most.

places

I think there is a noticeable difference between an M5 pumping in a fake note and an EV doing it. Poor comparison either way. neither is fine in my opinion. Faking an exhaust note is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard of. Either the car has it or it doesn't.

Wolfman

I like engine sounds and high performance models, no question. We have two of the quickest, fastest and loudest cars Mercedes makes. That said, I like tech and like what cars will be able to do in the future. Definitely am not nostalgic about older models which were simply not as good as cars today and I expect that trend to continue.
If I get get a 1000hp+ EV that takes me to 60 in less than 2 seconds or a luxury car that glides in silence, I am cool with either. I have no fascination with exhaust tips, V8's or otherwise. Whatever delivers the goods. I do like a sound scape but wether you like it or not, artificial sounds can beat real sounds.

Bankroll

The world is ending in 12 years, according to the Dems, and their leader AOC. What difference does it make at this point.

C280 Sport

Mine as well play my nephews Forza game on XBox lol. Fake sounds? Common! Just make EV's and make big engines. They will be great together! Problem solved. Paying $100,000 for a car to make fake sounds? That is the biggest scam ever I feel like! Even if they did V8 engines with a plug in hybrid I would be more than happy. EV mode for daily driving and V8 Sound for fun.