absent

Last thing, I swear.
Always follow the money to find the real reason for anything.
In this case, politicians who love taxation (as part of their philosophy), read leftist, found a new wonderful way of raising revenue and convincing gullible public to support it to “save the planet”.
Time is alway on the side of truth and soon GS will be laughed at.

absent

Bernie sponsored “research”?

WEBSRFR

For Tesla vehicles, it is around 400,000 miles and even then you still have about 70-80% capacity of the battery so it still has tremendous value as it can still be used for stationary energy storage.

What is the projected lifespan of a combustion engine? What about all the components that go with a combustion engine where any component can fail and more importantly, what about all the oil changes and maintenance required to keep a combustion engine functioning for hundreds of thousands of miles?

Something I find very compelling about our Tesla is how it requires no service other than standard things like checking the brake fluid for condensation, tire wear, wiper blades etc.,

Incidentally the physicist Jeff Dahn, who invented the modern lithium Ion battery works for Tesla. His team recently made a battery breakthrough and the next generation of Tesla batteries will be rated for a million miles. Tesla drivetrains are already developed for a million miles of use. Even at the current 400,000 miles, EV drivetrains will essentially last the lifetime of the car without all the maintenance/service costs associated with combustion cars.

https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-ma...million-miles/

WEBSRFR

"Now that?" EV performance and range has been beyond reasonable for quite a while. Why else do you think the Tesla Model S outsells the S Class more then 2 to 1 and the Tesla Model 3 now accounts for more sales than the BMW 3 Series, Lexus ES, BMW 5 Series, and Mercedes C Class COMBINED. Most people buying a premium car in 2019 expect the car's drivetrain to be more refined than an antiquated drivetrain powered by setting fire to dead dinosaur excrement. Obviously Mercedes get this to stop wasting resources developing combusting cars when better technology is available.

Oh, please. Save us your sob story about how you were going to buy an EV until you read the false propaganda and false dichotomy perpetuated by oil companies and their shills. What next? "Oh I really wanted to adopt a poor destitute orphan but then I read about all the food they eat and poop and how harmful that is?"

I won't respond to all the nonsense but suffice to say even electricity generated by coal in large scale is cleaner than the highly inefficient tiny combustion engines in cars. Even then just about 23% of our energy is from coal and this antiquated source of energy use is plummeting because it makes little economic or environmental sense. You know the coal industry is done when even coal companies are getting out of the business. Yeah look at what is happening to big beautiful clean coal on the graph below.

Keep advocating to continue to mine and burn oil and send money to the middle east, as if that ever caused us any problems.




Source: https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=38053

Even if you charge an electric car from coal power (when coal is about 23% of the grid and is going down every year), charging an electric vehicle is far cleaner than driving on gasoline, everywhere in America.

And if you want to talk about the mining of metals used in batteries, realize that is mined once when the car is made but oil has to be mined, refined, and transported every single time you fill up the tank, not even considering how it enriches the middle east. Just like the electricity grid, battery chemistries are also getting cleaner while oil extraction only becomes more destructive and expensive as we deplete easily accessible oil reserves.

Jesus Christ. How did a part of our population become so proud to be so ill informed and shills for oil companies and petro-states?!

Article source for excerpt below: https://www.forbes.com/sites/energyi.../#4555835371f8

C280 Sport

Funny a EV thread comes up and who shows up? WEBSRSR.

Wolfman

No kidding. Like we need more Tesla sales stats. Which nobody cares about...

Bankroll

Hey WEBSRFR, how do you plan to undo, and give back to all the damage you have done to the planet, with your previous giant footprint? Now that you are such a virtuous soul, and don't own a terrible environmental monster like a Mercedes, why are you still here?
Aren't you afraid that the green community will find out about you, and shame you out of their club?

WEBSRFR

I think I understand you better now. You seem to think that people who buy EVs or Teslas are some part of a "Green Community" or political movement. This is what those who wish to divide the population for the political gain would want you to believe.

My previous Mercedes was an E550 that delivered 14mpg on a good day. After I test drove a Tesla quite a while back the smoothness of the drivetrain along with the silent and instant acceleration won me over. The ability to experience 100% maximum torque in an instant with no gearbox getting in your way just can't be replicated with a combusting engine.

We didn't buy an EV to be some part of a green club, but because it really was the best car we could buy for our money. We are now on our second Tesla and each time we looked around, there was nothing comparable we could consider buying.

I am happy that Mercedes is pouring resources to building compelling EVs, as quite honestly, their future depends on it.

Look at the beautiful Porsche Taycan EV and how well it is doing. First year production is already sold out and I'm certain it will be Porsche's best selling model. Imagine if Mercedes built the Porsche Taycan as an S Class Coupe?!

It's after we bought an EV that we realized the environmental benefits and more importantly how efficient electric vehicles are. While our Model S is like a personal rollercoaster in terms of acceleration, what is remarkable is how it delivers that level of acceleration while offering over 100 MPGe in efficiency for daily driving. The fuel for our EV costs just 1/3 that of gas, the car requires no regular maintenance, we charge the car at home so never have to go to a stinky gasoline station and these are all benefits we realized after we bought our first EV.

So while you might try to rationalize EVs thinking it is part of some political movement or green club, for many people who buy EVs, it is just the best car they can find for their money. It just happens to be better for the environment and offers other benefits, such as being made in the United States with American labor in the case of Tesla, but that's just icing on the cake.

If you have not done so yet, take a Porsche Taycan or a Model S Performance for a test drive and see how you like. You may hate it but at least you'd know what performance EVs are about and why so many people opt for them in the premium car segment.

WEBSRFR

Happy to be here again. It's been a while

Yeah I agree, the Tesla stats just state the obvious reasons for Mercedes' decision to stop developing ICE technology.

MBNUT1

Here are some institutions with real money:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/27/c...mate-risk.html

Wolfman

I wouldn't flatter Tesla that much. Tesla is definitely not the reason although the company has shown that it can sell EV's on a large scale. Primary reasons for MB and others are the Chinese and European markets. China is the largest car market in the world and the have created and end path toward ICE cars imports. For the right reasons; they are suffocating on their own air.
Europe is dealing with having to reduce particle emissions which force driving restrictions for older ICE cars in a growing list of cities. Germany can't meet its quota unless they are changing tech. And to be sure, much of this will be PEHV's rather than EV's. The consumer demand for EV's continues to be low but a large range of reasonable EV's will improve that...

Utopia Texas

Posted by websrfr.....”If you have not done so yet, take a Porsche Taycan or a Model S Performance for a test drive and see how you like.”

You do realize that there are no Taycan’s in the U.S. to test drive? My dealership said they will not have one in their showroom until Jan-Feb 2020.
I had a deposit on a Taycan for over a year but have already had it returned. The range for distances here in Texas are are laughable at this point.
Tesla? I have a neighbor who has not been able to get a appointment for over a month for a electrical problem and a aunt who has had a Model 3 at a body shop for three weeks. No one at Tesla will return the shop’s phone calls for parts.
No thank you! Maybe in a few years.

PS702

EV is far superior than the average ICE. I'm not a fan of these turbo engines either.
The instant torque and lack of gear shifting is a win with these large, heavy luxury cars.
I've had EVs for years and I'm looking at the Ipace, but after sitting in an S Coupe, it's hard to be in an EV, especially a low quality Tesla.

I can't wait for the EQS!

MBNUT1

Well said. Even though a Tesla is better for climate change I get why people would prefer an S Class over the Model S. As you suggest the EQS will be the best of both worlds.

Mitch Alsup

I have gotten as much as 30 MPG in my W222 V12 !

hyperion667

I heard Elon is working on a million mile battery....anyone else hear that? I'd buy a Tesla then if I never had to recharge it or worry about distance.

PS702

Hes a liar and they spend nothing on Capex or R&D bc they don't have the cash

syswei

He means the useful life of the battery, not how long it can run on a single charge. And he is hyper-prone to exaggeration anyway.

hyperion667

Thanx guys, did seem I misunderstood him.

Utopia Texas

I would imagine a million mile battery would be charged with a baseball sized thermonuclear reactor right under the driver’s seat.....

exhaustgases

I mostly worry about lithium ion battery fires. Oh and how all company's could handle all the strict regulations, all of them just shut down and close the doors. If they did that for a few months they could write what ever regs they wanted. Oh and remember electric battery's need to be recharged, where does the energy come from to do that? Study the areas that are using a lot of wind farms, and look at how engine powered generators have to keep making up for the lack of consistency of the supplied power. Green new deal, yeah can you see hospitals having to tell you sorry no surgery's today the wind is not blowing and our back up battery's are low. You know no more diesel back up gen sets allowed any more.

JohnDoeMB

I think we need a gas turbine - hybrid electric Maybach. 0-60 in 3.2 seconds...

syswei

PHEV AMG GT 73 is supposed to be introduced next year, I imagine we'll see a W223 in 73 guise at some point.

amir1

I too love the large IC engines. I drive a 2017 S550 (about to lease a 2020 S560) and just purchased one of the last S-65 Coupes. Amazing and ultra luxurious in every way is an understatement. I have never owned an EV (I've driven them before though) for two primary reasons. The first is range. The second recharge time. Both go hand in hand are are getting better. As range increases, charging times will for all practical purposes become irrelevant. Eventually, we will charge the car at night and have enough range for all the driving one can do in one day. Some EVs are coming close but are not quite there yet. And, the number of charging stations is growing and charge times are getting less and less, so if you had to charge during the day, plug in, go grab something to eat, hit the bathroom, and Bingo, you're ready to go. In other words, The range and charge times are going to be resolved in 10 years or less (my opinion). The other issue holding back sales of EVs are value and comfort. We see some pretty amazing EV's on the high end Market. Tesla, Porche, Jaguar I=Pace, etc. But using a Tesla as an example, its no where nearly as comfortable or refined as an S-Class, BMW 7 Series, etc. On the low end side of the market, a Tesla model 3 is the size of a Toyota Corolla and costs almost twice as much. At that level, (lower price range) people aren't looking for luxury and require value and function. So until lower end EVs go down significantly in price, they won't be very successful. That should occur as volumes pick up though.
In the long run, EVs do offer several advantages. Lower maintenance (they don't have to replace oil, have no starter, or radiator or transmission). The EVs environmental impact is a positive trade off. IC engines require gasoline, oil, grease all of which are derived from oil and they pollute the air, (create many health issues) etc. EV's run much cleaner but do have some environmental impacts when they are built (they require many excotic metals in the batteries, etc) and when they are disposed. They do require electricity to charge which has some environmental impacts as well, but more and more cities in the U.S. and around the world are expanding solar and wind, so the impact of generating electricity should go down over time. Specifically to the high end cars (S-Class for example), I trust Mercedes and others will engineer the car to ride and drive as luxurious (or close to) the current IC powered versions. To me, I care less about what's under the hood as long as it provides ample and smooth power delivery and is reliable. Nor do I mind big daddy watching over me. But I do not like the user interface of Tesla (the big screen) and hope the new Mercedes S Class with its big screen works well and is not a turn off. While I can get used to almost anything, I think some functions should remain tactile (done by touch) such as having an actual radio volume button, actual A/C buttons, etc. Too many functions are now buried under menus which is inefficient and distracting.

MBNUT1

Nice comprehensive summary.