DaveW68

Has anybody tried these tires on their S-class? I know Toyo has a reputation for good quality and these have a 45k mile warranty on them and are W rated all-seasons in XL's, have low rolling resistance, and are supposed to be quiet. So they should be a good replacement for the crappy Goodyear run-flats. Also, I can pick up all 4 in staggered format (275/35R20 & 245/40R20) for my stock 20" wheels for a hair over $600 + tax & installation. These would be for 3 season use as I already have a winter wheel/tire package. Looking to avoid the over-hyped, over-priced Michelins, Pirelli's, Conti's, and the sort.

Looking for opinions from folks who've put these tires on their S-class or other high-end cars.

emilner

It may be a needle in a haystack thing. Few people put lower end tires on these cars, but now that the older models are getting to be really inexpensive you may get some. And no, Michelins (and Conti/Pirelli) are not overhyped overpriced tires. I noticed a meaningful difference going from DWS to Michelin Pilots, especially at higher handling speeds. At the end of the day every single action of movement your car makes will directly rely on those 4 patches that touch the ground. Spending less there to save money is beyond my comprehension.

SW20S

I have had a few sets of Toyo tires over the years, they're fine.

Toyo is not a discount off brand tire company, they're a very legit reputable tire manufacturer.

kafklatsch

all of us have been soaked by replacement cost of the AMG super tall steamroller width tires. For me its always been $$Michelins$$.
It is Toyo, not some untrustworthy brand
Why not give them a shot for the team and let us know.

DaveW68

Actually, they are over-hyped and over-priced. I'm not saying that they aren't good quality tires. But paying $300+ per tire for all-season radials on an S-class is literally throwing money down the drain when there are tires in the same class that are just as good or better for a lot less money. Apparently their marketing has worked well on you and many others as you are willing to fork out the money on a $1500 tire swap on a soft cruising car when you could have been spending half that on a product every bit as good.

And your "few people put lower end tires on these cars" comment brings me back to that other hoity toity snob-fest thread from last week. Toyos are not "lower end" tires. In fact, their development comes from a long history of extremes in competitive racing. You seem to be getting Toyo (Japanese/American) confused with cheap Chinese tires, which I would agree might be garbage and potentially dangerous at high speeds since the quality control in that country is questionable at best.

SW20S

I just dont think nowadays there is much about Michelin that makes them worth the big premium over other tires. At one time they were clearly the best, but manufacturing quality has improved a lot and I dont think the gap is there anymore.

Sort of like Sony or Bose. People swear "nothing is as high quality as a Sony TV" but I have just found that is not the case any longer.

Wolfman

To say that Michelins are overhyped and over-prized is just as wrong or unqualified of a statement as saying that Toyo's are low end garbage. Both companies are producing excellent tires but there are differences. Toyo R888r are great tires for a drag strip and track but they are extremely noisy. Also not much cheaper than Michelins.
Michelin makes some of the best tires in the world (typically on the performance-side) and are worth every penny. I am not sure if every Michelin model is a standout but for some cars there are no better tires, no matter the cost.

In Germany you learn that tires and brakes are the most important part of the car and this is something you don't save on. So cost should always be the last question, not the first one.
The S-Class is a quick but comfy cruiser and the priorities and driving styles should dictate the tire choices. All-season vs performance tires (this relates to driving sale and temperature), noise and performance in the rain and then durability.

DaveW68

When I see something that is comparable in every way (tread life, stiffness, build quality, speed rating, dry & wet performance, traction, quietness, etc) to a Michelin tire for half the price, I'll call the Michelin over-priced and over-hyped all day long. IMO, no all-season radial tire is worth over $300, period. And I'm not putting drag radials on my car, although I'd bet the Toyos are better than the Michelins since racing is their specialty.

I just want a decent performing tire that will reliably last me at least 3 years. I'll find a better way to spend the savings than paying double what the tires are worth, like new pads and rotors in a couple of years.

emilner

Just to be clear I didn't say they were garbage, but a $150 tire is a lower end tire. I just don't think you should cheap out in an S class with regular gas, nor with cheaper tires. They are in no way, shape or form on par with the best of Michelin.

2012 merc amg

I was really surprised with the Uniroyal Tiger Paw GTZ tires I put on my 2017. I really gave those tires the torture test as I do drive hard. When I got rid of the car they had about 12K miles on them of hard driving and still look practically new. They had a very smooth ride, much better than any run flats I've tried including even the Michelin Primacy tires. They were only around $160 a tire so around half the price of a lot of tires. As soon as the Continental Run Flat tires are gone on my 2018 S560 I'll be going with these tires again. I really had no problems with them and Uniroyal is owned by Michelin so as far as know these tires are not much different than a Michelin.

Wolfman

Understood and agree. The OP created controversy by making statements that had nothing to do with the question. Ideally people should ask which is the best tire for a car and why (to match priorities).
We had the Conti DWS on our S and they were fine but in hindsight I realize how average they were compared to the PS4s (different car). The S-Class just happens to have a very forgiving suspension.

Again, money should be the last criteria and this has nothing to do with being a snob.

Wolfman

I would say that depends on the quality of the reviews and experiences. Never heard of the tire, couldn't find fantastic reviews about it. Didn't see Tirerack carrying them (which has a good set of comparison reviews) so I can't make a judgement. Toyo R888r's are great tires but again hard to compare a $400 performance tire to the one you mentioned.
I described why I think it's wrong to use price as a key criteria unless all other things are equal. Something I haven't seen yet. Care to share a good comparison review?

DaveW68

You are again making assumptions based on your bias for the Michelin brand. You know absolutely nothing about Toyo tires, their history, and their reputation for making quality tires. The Toyo Extensa is not a "lower end" tire. It competes directly against the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ and is likely more stable in the turns due to the design of the tire. It also appears to be comparable to the Pirelli P Zero Nero tire.

DaveW68

No controversy here. Was just looking to see if anybody here had any experience yet with the Toyos. And when it comes to the Conti DWS and the Michelin PS4s, that is an apples and oranges comparison. The Conti is an all-season tire with a long tread life that does decent in the snow, especially while it has 6/32 or higher of tread and the PS4 is a high performance summer tire that likely wouldn't last past 20k miles on a heavy S-class it would be downright scary to drive on when temps dip below 40 and they turn into hockey pucks.

Lots of reviews of the Toyos online and through YouBoob.

SW20S

I think its totally fair to call Michelin tires over-hyped. Whenever you have a brand that many people say are the ONLY thing they would ever buy, and the far and away best thing and nothing else should be considered...that brand is over-hyped. Michelins pricing clearly is the highest in the industry, cashing in on this brand reputation.

That doesn't mean they are bad, they are very good. They are just not the only excellent tires out there, far far from it. Michelin makes some crappy tires too.

Spoken as someone who has plenty of money lol

Money is a very important criteria for most people. Even people who have S Classes. There is always something more expensive you can buy, the question is...is it better? For a lot of people a set of tires is a HUGE expense.

emilner

You came onto a Mercedes forum saying Michelin’s, Pirellis etc are over hyped and over priced which educated people know isn’t true. It is exactly the same when someone says their Avalon is just as good as an S class and nothing you say can convince them otherwise. The reason you would buy those Toyos is because of their price. If they were the same price as an M/P or C you would (should) go with one of them. It’s not brand bias, it is just based on actual experience from millions of people and professionals.

SW20S

Thats not a fair comparison at all, an Avalon is clearly inferior. Lets put it this way, its like someone saying a 7 Series is just as good as an S Class, but is a little cheaper. That's a debatable point which has merit. How about a Genesis G90 or a Lexus LS is as good as an S Class just a lot cheaper? Those are also debatable points that have merit. I think its hard to say that the S Class is objectively quantifiably $50,000 a better car than a Genesis G90, so for someone who is price conscious a G90 is a very good choice.

Michelin makes very good tires, but so do lots of other people. Someone is not necessarily sacrificing performance and certainly not safety by not buying Michelins, as is often implied.

This is coming from someone who just bought a set of Michelins, not because they are Michelins but because they were the best tires available. Had the best tires been Toyos, i would have bought them.

emilner

Ah, but you did compare a $150 tire to a $300 tire so comparing an Avalon to the S is somewhat appropriate. A 7 series is roughly on par price wise with an S just like Michelin’s are close in price to Pirellis. And at this point we can only go on price because those tires are almost unheard of. I mean even tire rack doesn’t sell them. If they were on par with the 3 other brands you listed they would be there and shooting up the chart.

DaveW68

There's that snooty, superior, entitled attitude of yours again. Have you come across a lot of people saying that their Avalon is just as good as an S-class?

And the reason I was even considering the Toyo is that I intend on putting all-season tires on my car to replace the crappy GY RF's and want a solid tire that will perform very well in 3 seasons, even when temps get below 40. I'm not the guy burning $100 bills just for the hell of it. I'm a smart consumer and do a ton of research before making a decision on anything I buy. You're the guy who thinks that because something is more expensive it is definitely better. Well....you happen to be wrong in this instance.

emilner

Actually yes, I often hear and see people who say their Toyo/Honda etc are just as good as the German luxury marks. It’s impossible to miss. “I have all the same features as the XXX, what a waste of money that car is”. There is nothing snooty, superior or entitled about my comment. You are on a forum dedicated solely to $100k+ vehicles. Expecting people on here to be more focused on price vs performance, safety, luxury etc is absurd....

DaveW68

You are a funny man! I wish you could hear yourself right now.

SW20S

You have to detach the price from the quality of the product. The Avalon is not comparable to the S Class not because it’s much cheaper but because it is an entirely different caliber of product. The Genesis G90 is a better comparison. It’s much cheaper but is comparable in a lot of ways, the S is still better obviously but is it $50,000 better? I would find it hard to quantifiably say it is.

You're basically saying something is better because it costs more, and something that’s cheaper can’t be as good because it’s cheaper. That’s just not the case lol.

DaveW68

I'm looking for a solid all-season tire. That's why I've been considering the Toyo Extensa's. On Tire Rack, the only Michelin all-season that I see in the same sizes are the Pilot Sport A/S 3+ that sell for $254 for the fronts and $243 for the rears. Those Michelins and the Toyos match up almost exactly with tire wear, temp, etc. But it appears that the Toyo's have a better pattern for disbursing water to avoid hydro-plaining. The Toyo's obviously have a great and long reputation for quality. The Toyo's in my size sell for about $150 for the fronts and $185 for the rears. For dedicated high performance summer tires, the Toyo Proxes Sports match up to the Micheline Pilot Sport 4S for less money. And their tread patterns are almost identical.

With these facts in mind, please explain to me how the Michelin is a superior tire to the Toyo because it is more expensive?

Wolfman

I think this thread has run its course.
You have asked your question, got no answers and argue with everyone that disagrees with your opinion on other brands. At this point, why don't you buy the tires and in time provide feedback to other members. That would provide us with good information and be very helpful.