My 2020 S560 gets a new transmission and torque converter........
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I know you asked streamliner, but in my case, my 15 W222 lasted about 10,000 miles before I started to notice it. It may have started sooner than that, but it was around 10K miles when I started to feel that there is an issue, started to monitor it very carefully, and realized how bad it is. Before that, I always thought I have maybe hit the brakes hard while slowing down... maybe a puddle hall .... i just never realized it until it passes 10K miles (maybe it started around that time, but maybe also sooner). It took me then 4 years of back and forth, and 60K more miles of fighting with MB before I finally got it fixed 100%!...
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When it hits in an aggressive way, yes, it did, but it used to be that hard only 1 out of 10 times (9 soft, 1 hard). When the hard downshift hits, I always used to look in the mirror and always felt like 99% someone must have hit me from the back!
Because I can get sooooo picky with car and noises, and because I dealt with it for about 4 years before it was finally fixed, i have become so good in terms if forcing my car to repeat this rough downshifting over and over, I was almost able to predict every time based on speed, conditions, RPM and momentum when/how/if it will occur.
Because I can get sooooo picky with car and noises, and because I dealt with it for about 4 years before it was finally fixed, i have become so good in terms if forcing my car to repeat this rough downshifting over and over, I was almost able to predict every time based on speed, conditions, RPM and momentum when/how/if it will occur.
Last edited by S_W222; Apr 30, 2021 at 05:45 PM.
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2010 E350 4Matic
When it hits in an aggressive way, yes, it did, but it used to be that hard only 1 out of 10 times (9 soft, 1 hard). When the hard downshift hits, I always used to look in the mirror and always felt like 99% someone must have hit me from the back!
Because I can get sooooo picky with car and noises, and because I dealt with it for about 4 years before it was finally fixed, i have become so good in terms if forcing my car to repeat this rough downshifting over and over, I was almost able to predict every time based on speed, conditions, RPM and momentum when/how/if it will occur.
Because I can get sooooo picky with car and noises, and because I dealt with it for about 4 years before it was finally fixed, i have become so good in terms if forcing my car to repeat this rough downshifting over and over, I was almost able to predict every time based on speed, conditions, RPM and momentum when/how/if it will occur.
Help me understand how a hard downshift feels like you are being hit from the back? In Streamliner's case he described it like somebody else stepped on the brakes which I understand.
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2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
My experience with this new car has been different than most others, due to the virus. I have driven it much less since taking delivery. I noticed the problem within the first few hundred miles, but held off bringing it to the dealer, figuring that I’d just wait until I had other reasons to make the visit.
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From: Corona Del Mar, CA
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
@Streamliner
Oh man... i tell you, I really had 99% confidence that this would happen.... that's the reason I suggested you call them and ask them to not mess with the car... they worked on the car and re-assembled everything together, and at that point, I would rather have the original factory assembly structure because I know that replacing the transmission won't help at all (it is a DESIGN + SOFTWARE) issue.
The fact they told you (MB says it is a “software issue,” that they are “working on an update,” and would have one soon) means that whoever is doing service there, has no idea how to fix this issue!.. I told u i had to ask they take it to 3 other dealership locations until i found a mechanic who knows how to fix it.... THERE IS A SOLUTION ... i guarantee you, there is already a solution, but it only needs someone knowledgeable enough to do the service.... I will try to find the name of the mechanic who did the service on my car, but he works at MB in the east coast. remember, it is NOT a software issue, it is a design+software issue, and for that, there would need to be lots of manual adjustments for the gear ratios while car is being driven... almost like re-doing the engineering work from scratch and overwrite the car original values... in my case, my car drives like buttery smooth since service was done (1 year now, prefect shifting on all gears at all temperatures including cold start).
To be honest, if enough people would support (and are aware of this issue) you could easily sue MB for such an issue. (it is in ALL models from 2014-2021).... also, knowing that the W223 has same transmission design, I guarantee you it would do the same!.
Oh man... i tell you, I really had 99% confidence that this would happen.... that's the reason I suggested you call them and ask them to not mess with the car... they worked on the car and re-assembled everything together, and at that point, I would rather have the original factory assembly structure because I know that replacing the transmission won't help at all (it is a DESIGN + SOFTWARE) issue.
The fact they told you (MB says it is a “software issue,” that they are “working on an update,” and would have one soon) means that whoever is doing service there, has no idea how to fix this issue!.. I told u i had to ask they take it to 3 other dealership locations until i found a mechanic who knows how to fix it.... THERE IS A SOLUTION ... i guarantee you, there is already a solution, but it only needs someone knowledgeable enough to do the service.... I will try to find the name of the mechanic who did the service on my car, but he works at MB in the east coast. remember, it is NOT a software issue, it is a design+software issue, and for that, there would need to be lots of manual adjustments for the gear ratios while car is being driven... almost like re-doing the engineering work from scratch and overwrite the car original values... in my case, my car drives like buttery smooth since service was done (1 year now, prefect shifting on all gears at all temperatures including cold start).
To be honest, if enough people would support (and are aware of this issue) you could easily sue MB for such an issue. (it is in ALL models from 2014-2021).... also, knowing that the W223 has same transmission design, I guarantee you it would do the same!.
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From: Corona Del Mar, CA
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
Within an hour of picking up my car, after the transmission & torque converter replacement, I phoned MBUSA to open a case. Yesterday, I received a phone call from an MBUSA “Executive Referral Manager,” and we spoke for 25 minutes. I kept my cool, but I REALLY gave this person an earful. I asked if MB had forgotten how to build transmissions. I suggested that if my 2020 had this problem, wouldn’t the new W223’s have it as well, if they didn’t know how to fix it. I was told, once again, that “a software patch was being developed to fix the problem.” When I asked just WHEN I could expect to see this remedy, they told me “we have no ETA on it,” to which I replied “that is unacceptable.”
Based on my conversation, it would appear that MBUSA will be looking to buy back my car. I know of at least one other member here who had his 2020 bought back over this issue. I guess MB must figure that most people just live with the problem and that very few actually push it, so if they have to buy a car back every now and then, no big deal. If that is the case, it is VERY depressing. To be continued..............
Based on my conversation, it would appear that MBUSA will be looking to buy back my car. I know of at least one other member here who had his 2020 bought back over this issue. I guess MB must figure that most people just live with the problem and that very few actually push it, so if they have to buy a car back every now and then, no big deal. If that is the case, it is VERY depressing. To be continued..............
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Within an hour of picking up my car, after the transmission & torque converter replacement, I phoned MBUSA to open a case. Yesterday, I received a phone call from an MBUSA “Executive Referral Manager,” and we spoke for 25 minutes. I kept my cool, but I REALLY gave this person an earful. I asked if MB had forgotten how to build transmissions. I suggested that if my 2020 had this problem, wouldn’t the new W223’s have it as well, if they didn’t know how to fix it. I was told, once again, that “a software patch was being developed to fix the problem.” When I asked just WHEN I could expect to see this remedy, they told me “we have no ETA on it,” to which I replied “that is unacceptable.”
Based on my conversation, it would appear that MBUSA will be looking to buy back my car. I know of at least one other member here who had his 2020 bought back over this issue. I guess MB must figure that most people just live with the problem and that very few actually push it, so if they have to buy a car back every now and then, no big deal. If that is the case, it is VERY depressing. To be continued..............
Based on my conversation, it would appear that MBUSA will be looking to buy back my car. I know of at least one other member here who had his 2020 bought back over this issue. I guess MB must figure that most people just live with the problem and that very few actually push it, so if they have to buy a car back every now and then, no big deal. If that is the case, it is VERY depressing. To be continued..............
I got a little aggressive by end of 2019 and got my car sent to 3 different dealerships for some senior/experienced mechanics. Finally, the 3rd dealer was able to fix the issue.
My story and recommendation remains the same: yes there is a solution today but your current dealership or mechanics over there don’t know how to fix it. I went through this for 4 years (2016-2019) and kept hearing the software development issue until I never believed it. Finally only because of one knowledge mechanic/engineer in the 3rd dealership that my car was sent to, issue is resolved forever and perfectly.
the guy who fixed my car told me that the reason they could never issue a new software that fixes this issue is because a (one fits all) software code isn’t going to work. Each and every car will have to be personally and manually adjusted and calibrated (just like he did for) and MB don’t want and can’t afford that for every production car. They guy was extremely knowledgeable and I believe him cause he was able to fix my car.
the reason that this extended to the new 9G transmission and maybe W223 is because it is the same team and therefore same knowledge+mistakes (and also same control module) and will continue to fail addressing this issue until someone admits his mistake and get fired, or a new control module is designed, or at least go ahead and calibrate manually every single production car for now! The problem is that it may take few hundreds to thousands of miles before this issue appears ( more like a major recall if they want to be honest with all of us )
Last edited by S_W222; May 1, 2021 at 10:46 AM.
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2018 S560
Makes you wonder if they really even did replace the trans and torque converter? At least my experience has been a lot the time they just park the car around the back and do nothing. I’ve even caught them not changing the oil when it was said to be changed on my 2019 wagon. The car has a dipstick thank god and the oil was still dirty after the oil change. They said they would do it again then it was clean. I would try driving the car really hard for a while and maybe that will adapt the trans programming in a good way. Seemed to work somewhat for me. I do sometimes notice slightly rough downshifts in succession with my 2018 560. Nothing like as bad as with my 2015 550 did. That car ya I think it was the 5 to 4 downshift about once a week getting off a highway ramp the car would just shutter real bad. Yes it was the feeling of the car being rear ended that bad and kinda scary. The 2017 550 I got rid of last fall did not seem to have this issue at all. I drove that car real hard though. For some reason that car felt really fast. I almost wondered if maybe the person who had the car before me had done a tune on that car. It was faster than my current 2018. Try driving it real hard for a while and see if that helps well maybe give it a little more time easy for the trans to run in. An Italian trans tune up lol.
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The real problem, at least for me, is WHERE do you go from MB? Audi & BMW, to me, are “also rans,” offering nothing that interests me. Bentley? Maybe, but The New Flying Spur doesn’t light my fire, which it should for what it costs. Rolls-Royce? My upbringing really won’t allow me to spend that kind of money on a depreciating asset. So, perhaps I’ll take a step or two backwards to Genesis.
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I have commented on this before and my feeling is that MB is trying to be everything to everybody. They are doing too much at one time and unforgivable design defects are making it into production. I understand wanting to grow a company and expand market share, but at what price? Did we really need the A & B Class vehicles? Personally, I don’t think they even needed the C Class. If they felt the need for entry level passenger cars, they should have created another division and designed, engineered, produced and marketed those vehicles under a different name. Or, they could buy Chrysler—which, of course, they did—and we all know how that fiasco worked out.
The real problem, at least for me, is WHERE do you go from MB? Audi & BMW, to me, are “also rans,” offering nothing that interests me. Bentley? Maybe, but The New Flying Spur doesn’t light my fire, which it should for what it costs. Rolls-Royce? My upbringing really won’t allow me to spend that kind of money on a depreciating asset. So, perhaps I’ll take a step or two backwards to Genesis.
The real problem, at least for me, is WHERE do you go from MB? Audi & BMW, to me, are “also rans,” offering nothing that interests me. Bentley? Maybe, but The New Flying Spur doesn’t light my fire, which it should for what it costs. Rolls-Royce? My upbringing really won’t allow me to spend that kind of money on a depreciating asset. So, perhaps I’ll take a step or two backwards to Genesis.
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I have commented on this before and my feeling is that MB is trying to be everything to everybody. They are doing too much at one time and unforgivable design defects are making it into production. I understand wanting to grow a company and expand market share, but at what price? Did we really need the A & B Class vehicles? Personally, I don’t think they even needed the C Class. If they felt the need for entry level passenger cars, they should have created another division and designed, engineered, produced and marketed those vehicles under a different name. Or, they could buy Chrysler—which, of course, they did—and we all know how that fiasco worked out.
The real problem, at least for me, is WHERE do you go from MB? Audi & BMW, to me, are “also rans,” offering nothing that interests me. Bentley? Maybe, but The New Flying Spur doesn’t light my fire, which it should for what it costs. Rolls-Royce? My upbringing really won’t allow me to spend that kind of money on a depreciating asset. So, perhaps I’ll take a step or two backwards to Genesis.
The real problem, at least for me, is WHERE do you go from MB? Audi & BMW, to me, are “also rans,” offering nothing that interests me. Bentley? Maybe, but The New Flying Spur doesn’t light my fire, which it should for what it costs. Rolls-Royce? My upbringing really won’t allow me to spend that kind of money on a depreciating asset. So, perhaps I’ll take a step or two backwards to Genesis.
Last edited by MBNUT1; May 1, 2021 at 02:45 PM.
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From: Venice Florida
2018 S560
Maybe you could find a mint condition 2011 or 2012 W221, lol. I saw one in Florida recently a diamond white one and it looked brand new. I actually think those W221 are better looking than the W222's and as far as I know they didn't have this shift problem plus no turbos to go bad lol. With all the money you will pick up in the transaction you can have a California custom place retrofit a 222 dash and LCD screens into the car
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From: Half Moon Bay, CA
2016 S550e, 2005 Nissan Xterra 4x4, 1984 300ZX
100% this felt like I was rear ended. The super hard downshift has happened to me 2x's only, other times it is a litlte jerky, but the first time this happened there was a car behind me probably 15-20 feet back and I was ready to jump out when I felt it, but realized he was way too far behind me to have hit me. The second time I was coming off the freeway and I was very sure I was hit but there was nobody behind me at all. I have a 2016 with some miles and years left on the extended warranty, I plan to stop and talk to the service writer about this issue and then have them evaulate it when I drop off to fix my other bug which is the wheel and seat not moving when I shut down.
This still the best car I have ever owned but I feel vindicated that I was not crazy when this happened.
This still the best car I have ever owned but I feel vindicated that I was not crazy when this happened.
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100% this felt like I was rear ended. The super hard downshift has happened to me 2x's only, other times it is a litlte jerky, but the first time this happened there was a car behind me probably 15-20 feet back and I was ready to jump out when I felt it, but realized he was way too far behind me to have hit me. The second time I was coming off the freeway and I was very sure I was hit but there was nobody behind me at all. I have a 2016 with some miles and years left on the extended warranty, I plan to stop and talk to the service writer about this issue and then have them evaulate it when I drop off to fix my other bug which is the wheel and seat not moving when I shut down.
This still the best car I have ever owned but I feel vindicated that I was not crazy when this happened.
This still the best car I have ever owned but I feel vindicated that I was not crazy when this happened.
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From: Corona Del Mar, CA
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
As most of you must know, MB has offered to “buy back” my car. With maybe 150 miles on the new transmission and torque converter, the car shifts rougher than it did before the surgery. So, WHY? Why can they not SIMPLY trace the problem down to the component or computer responsible for the rough shifting, replace it and have the car good to go? WHY? Why do the vast majority of 9G-Tronic transmissions work just fine, but some don’t and MB throws in the towel on a $131,000.00 S560 so quickly? I am having a very difficult time trying to understand this. I don’t want them to buy back the car, I want them to FIX it. Hey, Wolfman, might you comment on this please?
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Current/Last 5-years:GLS;G70;Alpina B8;X7;Accord. Sold:X7,TeslaS;S560;S550,X5;530e;L.Navigator;LS460
As most of you must know, MB has offered to “buy back” my car. With maybe 150 miles on the new transmission and torque converter, the car shifts rougher than it did before the surgery. So, WHY? Why can they not SIMPLY trace the problem down to the component or computer responsible for the rough shifting, replace it and have the car good to go? WHY? Why do the vast majority of 9G-Tronic transmissions work just fine, but some don’t and MB throws in the towel on a $131,000.00 S560 so quickly? I am having a very difficult time trying to understand this. I don’t want them to buy back the car, I want them to FIX it. Hey, Wolfman, might you comment on this please?
Last edited by S_W222; May 21, 2021 at 10:27 AM.
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From: Chicago burbs
2015 S550
Hey Stream....email a copy of the thread where S_W addresses how the issue was fixed in his car to your local dealership and see if they have any mechanics there that know how to do the procedure. If not, talk to other dealerships in your area until you find one who does. It sounds exactly like it's the fix that you need to make your car shift smoothly. Mine is somewhat clunky too, but I'm not quite as sensitive to these types of things as you are. No offense intended BTW.
https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...ting-w222.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...ting-w222.html
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From: Corona Del Mar, CA
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
While I am not the most experiences member here in these issues concerning MB engineering, but I can assure you, MB corporate engineers already know VERY WELL about this issue , and have known it since 2015!. They have been claiming that a new software will be released to address this combination of Desingn/software/communication issue, YET THEY FAILED TO FIX IT! and they know it.... Fixing the issue would require a whole new design of the component that is causing this issue (which they are yet to identify. I also guarantee you that more than half of the vehicles are having this issue, but most car owners aren't reporting it or noticing it (people have different sensitivity to these issues, which is why some mechanics won't even notice or hear what you are referring to sometimes. MB corporate engineers are just hiding it and not announcing, cause simply they have no idea how to fix it yet!. BUT, like I said, there is a way to fix it manually (not at the design level), but on a manual step-by-step method that needs to be customized for every single car after is it assembled. I am super surprised that you and most others aren't following what I shared in my original post about this issue (just take it or ask them to take it to another dealer who knows how to repeat the steps that finally fixed my car after 3.5 years of tracking the issue!!).
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From: Chicago burbs
2015 S550
Seeing this thread actually brought me some relief. After I purchased my car, I contacted the dealers where the previous owner took the car for service so I could get a better understanding of exactly what was done to my car over its 30k mile lifespan. I had noticed that the CarFax report said the trans was replaced around 23k miles. The dealership that did the work told me that they had replaced the torque converter, not the trans because the customer was complaining about rough shifts. Apparently that didn't fix the issue, so they did a software update to the TCU, but that didn't fix it either. There was another appointment scheduled for further diagnosis, but the guy traded in the car before that was done. Needless to say, this was a bit disconcerting to me as I figured the guy dumped the car because he couldn't get the trans issue sorted. But after experiencing the clunky shifts (which really don't bother me) and reading these threads, I now know it's either a software or hardware flaw that likely applies to all 7G and 9G MB transmissions and most folks just live with it.
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From: Chicago burbs
2015 S550
No offense, but if what you say is factual, then why do the vast majority of 9G-Tronic equipped vehicles perform flawlessly, while some don’t? My 2018 S560 was perfect, as are my 2019 SL450 and my 2019 E450 Wagon. My issue with the S560 is being handled by Fletcher Jones in Newport Beach, the largest MB dealer in the country. They have exceptional access to the MB factory. My car was even driven by an MB engineer who happened to be there at the time. I refuse to take my car to multiple dealers, as you did, hoping that I might find someone who can fix it. Modern day vehicles are almost always repaired by changing out components. My question is, how can MB not know just which component(s) to change out, which will cure this problem?
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From: Corona Del Mar, CA
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
At this point would it really hurt to show them the thread and how it was fixed for S_W? From what I understand, others have had this issue fixed too because of him posting what was done. Perhaps it's exactly what is needed to fix your car and maybe no part will fix it on its own.
