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Purchasing Advice - New 2022 E450 vs CPO 2019 S 560
Dear All,
I am new to this forum. I have been a long time fan of the three pointed star. I currently drive a 2005 E320 CDI with 200K miles. I am in the market for a newer vehicle. My budget is $50k-70k, I drive quite a bit on the freeway around 20k per year. Adaptive cruise control and drive assistance package is of great value for me. I plan to keep the car for at least 7-10 years.
Over the last few weeks, I have been trying to decide between a new E class vs a lease return CPO S class. Having a hard time. A well equipped e class seems to running at 75k. Is it a good decision to buy a used S class with under 30k miles.I test drove a W213 E Class with V6 engine and found It was ok. The s class V6 was simply better interns of the ride comfort.
Here are my question
1. is it a good decision to consider a used S over E class.
2. In S class which is a better choice S450 or S560.
2019 W222 S560 4Matic /2019 Chevy Suburban Premier
Mercedes V8 is rock solid.
get a proper das setup for this car so you can properly fix issues.
So far the 2 s classes I've owned have been amazing cars.
You can't drive another car once you've driven one of these.
All Cars Lost To Hurricane Isaac (W124 E420 revived - added 88 Allante 14 S550, 17 S63
I agree
I moved from E to S in about 2000... the E's were very very good cars, particularly the W124 chassis
but
after owning the S, there has been at least one S in the garage every day since... and two S's now
Be careful.... you could become ensnarled in goodness
Originally Posted by vinflouen
Mercedes V8 is rock solid.
get a proper das setup for this car so you can properly fix issues.
So far the 2 s classes I've owned have been amazing cars.
You can't drive another car once you've driven one of these.
The S class has been described as 'majestic', which sounds a little silly at first, but fits pretty well once you're used to the car. I had a C class in the past and I love the space inside the S. My wife and I no longer fight over the center armrest, it's wide enough for both of us ;-)
Only real drawback is it's a tight fit in my garage and can be hard to park and maneuver due to it's size, but that's not much of an issue if your driving is mostly on the highway.
I drive a 2019 S560 with the V8 and absolutely love that car. It's mainly driven as a highway cruiser and it's perfectly suited for that. However, after my recent retirement, we spend most of our time at our house in a wooded rural area. I've been thinking about trading the S for something better suited to our post-retirement lifestyle like an E 450 wagon. I've driven the wagon and really like it. But I have to say - nothing beats that S - at least nothing this side of a Bentley or a Rolls. I've been thoroughly spoiled and it will be difficult to give up the S, even for a car as sweet at the E wagon. Definitely a first world problem. For now, I'm keeping the S and I'm happy to do it.
Last edited by MichaelinChicag; 12-04-2022 at 08:20 AM.
S-Class as mentioned is in a league of its own. Comfort and quietness with larger vehicles is noticeably better compared with smaller vehicles, across all brands.
The S560 with M177 V8 does not have the 48V system, which is good. This V8, however, may be developing a reputation rear main crankshaft oil seal failure due to failed (plugged) vapor separator. It's not clear yet whether this applies only to AMG63 variants, or more widely across M177 applications.
Below is a vapor separator from Mahle, the OEM supplier for MB. It is effectively a catch can. Remember the breather caps on the small block Chevy?
The 2022 E450 has the 48V system which is to be avoided. Read this site extensively, caveat emptor.
If you plan to keep it for 10 years, the S will likely cost you more during that period. S class parts are simply more expensive. But do not let that dissuade you.
As others have mentioned, the S is clearly the superior car. The only 2 exceptions I’ve found being (1) if you like to drive aggressively and (2) if you live in an urban area. I do love my S but it is an entirely different vehicle from the w211 E63 I had before.
@chassis is that vapor separator something that is easy to swap. I have a 2019 S63 with the M177 and 18K miles. I had not heard of this issue but wondering if this is something I should routinely replace.
There is just no comparison, the E Class feels nothing like an S Class. I would go for the 560, the car is made for the V8 and you also get the nappa leather inside which is a huge upgrade from the base leather which 99% of S450s will have.
The E Class is a fine car, but its not a special car like an S Class or other flagship car is.
@chassis is that vapor separator something that is easy to swap. I have a 2019 S63 with the M177 and 18K miles. I had not heard of this issue but wondering if this is something I should routinely replace.
@superpop Pre-emptive replacement of separators is a good idea. If I owned an M177-engined vehicle I would likely change them.
In principal it looks easy to me. However the parts that need to be removed before arriving at the vapor separator could be challenging (time consuming). I think in the W213 AMG section of this site there have been some reports of time and cost to do this. From memory it's expensive, which means time consuming at the dealer.
If you are DIY-ing it, probably not hard because the separators are at the front/top of the engine, best possible location. Parts cost is not exorbitant IMO considering the value of the vehicle and the potential consequences of a failed separator.
As usual with MB engines there are many small fiddly plastic components (connectors, tubes, etc.) which could break when disassembled. Because the M177 is not too old, hopefully heat aging has not affected these parts too much.
Porsche/Audi did it the right way and installed the separators on the top of the cam covers on the EA839 V6 and EA825 V8. Seems the industry has recognized that direct injection engines have problems with intake valve fouling, which enthusiasts have known about for years.
Separators are the black plastic devices front top of cylinder heads. They are catch cans.
There are some components (intercoolers?) between the separators and fan assembly that need to be removed to access the separators. Besides the intercoolers, I am not familiar with each installation of the M177 engine. There will be platform-to-platform detail differences.
S-Class as mentioned is in a league of its own. Comfort and quietness with larger vehicles is noticeably better compared with smaller vehicles, across all brands.
The S560 with M177 V8 does not have the 48V system, which is good. This V8, however, may be developing a reputation rear main crankshaft oil seal failure due to failed (plugged) vapor separator. It's not clear yet whether this applies only to AMG63 variants, or more widely across M177 applications.
Below is a vapor separator from Mahle, the OEM supplier for MB. It is effectively a catch can. Remember the breather caps on the small block Chevy?
The 2022 E450 has the 48V system which is to be avoided. Read this site extensively, caveat emptor.
wow.. thank you very much sir .. appreciate sharing the knowledge. I was not aware of the 48v system. Seems like the tech is too new .I do not want to walk into a new experimental tech on a new car ..
After reading the feedback from other folks, I am seeing that V8 is the best choice.
. The factory cPo warranty covers the first two years , the dealer is quoting around $3k for additional 2 year warranty.
is it worth it to purchase the dealer warranty or should I invest in purchasing some special tools and wait for things change . Especially if it’s known issue I would like to do it preemptively
I also bought a 2019 s 560 CPO earlier this year year and at the time had 26k miles. Now about 9 months later I just passed 35k. I mainly use the car as for highway drives and maybe occasionally put on a couple of local miles. The car is pure bliss! My dad has a gle 350, my mom has a e 350, I got my wife a glb 35 amg and my brother has a gls 450. They are all 2021 except my wife’s Amg glb 35 is 2022. Even tho my s class is a few years older and has more miles, it simply cant be compared to any other Benz. I just scheduled my first service A and can’t wait to get it back. Go with the s class you won’t be disappointed!
The S class has been described as 'majestic', which sounds a little silly at first, but fits pretty well once you're used to the car. I had a C class in the past and I love the space inside the S. My wife and I no longer fight over the center armrest, it's wide enough for both of us ;-)
Only real drawback is it's a tight fit in my garage and can be hard to park and maneuver due to it's size, but that's not much of an issue if your driving is mostly on the highway.
OP the twin turbo 4.7 is an excellent motor that delivers 26mpg on the road without thinking about it and goes just fine when prodded.
Having had the V8 and V12; my choice is the S65. It comes with everything and is just sooooo nice. That and she absolutely hauls @ss when you ask for it. Get one with carbon ceramic brakes. No dust and they last a long time. You are spending a lot of time in your car and life is short. Treat yourself. AMG Crack.... First hit is free....
I’ve been driving big cars for many years, I don’t have any problem maneuvering the big S around, even in an urban setting. I park in a lot of parking garages etc and it really is easy it get used to.
Make sure you have a decent dealer that can work on the car. I have both a E450 (2019 with the twin turbo V6) and a 2018 S560 with the 4.0 V8 twin turbo. Its strange the E450 feels faster and is more nimble and fun to drive but of course the S560 is more comfortable and a better highway cruiser. The S560 rides great especially on bad roads like I see up north where I live summers. The E450 is very stiff and drives more like a sports car even though it's the "Luxury" instead of the "AMG line" It really doesn't ride much better over rough roads than my 2018 E63 AMG that I sold a couple years back which really surprises me, on smooth roads like here in Florida the car is fine though and handles very well. You might want to think about a used 2020 to 2019 E450 if you want to have some money left over and great car. Or if its super highway comfort your after the S560 may be your ticket. I do find driving my E450 more inspiring and look forward to it every time I get behind the wheel, especially in Sport Plus mode. I wish my S560 had Sport plus mode that was not really the design intention of this car to be sporty.
Hi aforarun,
ABSOLUTELY no question. Buy an S-Class.
We started with two e-classes, with 6 cylinder engines, first a straight 6, second a v-6. Nice, but not off the charts.
Started with S Class in a 2001 V8, used, loaded with ABC (by accident) and most other options at the time
Then a 2010 V8, used, again with ABC. Lovely car, better than the 2001. Snappy performer.
Then, a 2015 V8, used, again with ABC, this time Magic Body Control was included. Found one in Florida, with almost every option, except back seat buckets, back seat entertainment and refrigerator. My personal analysis for a loaded car is whether the buttons to the lower left of the steering wheel all have a function, or are dummies. All of mine are functional. After more than a year, I am still learning about them.
This car is MAGIC. Every time that I get into it (I call him Pelkey) I look forward to the drive, even for a quart of milk at the local store.
So, I have been in E's and 3 V8 S's. Go with the V8, as someone said earlier. Twin turbo V-8 acceleration, enough to loosed your fillings.
Granted, the S63 or S65 will cause a brain hemorrhage, due to their acceleration, but if you take a standard S550 for a spin, you will see that this thing really moves. And moves smoothly. Noise, vibration, bouncing -- all minimized.
I sound like I'm selling these cars.
Plan to keep Pelkey until the new electrics have aged, come way down in price, and have infrastructure to support them and Elon is President (oh wait, has to be born here. Maybe an amendment is necessary).
Then, Maybe.
In summary (God He's verbose), I'd go for the S550, as loaded as you can find, and hopefully with Magic Body Control, unless you are in Snow Country. Then consider the 4Matic, 4 WD version. Here in Southern California, unless we go up skiing with it, it's not necessary.
Hope that all helps.
The E would have newer software and capabilities. I liked the new MBUX UI way way more than the one in my 2018 S560 and it's nice not to have to lug a huge landyacht around, but... that's it. Given the choice, I would go (again) for a facelifted (2018+) S class and least the 560L trim so I can get the V8 as well as some extras that come as standard at this level.
The M176 engine in the facelifted cars is reliable enough and if you take care of it, it won't break down on you unexpectedly. However, being a used Mercedes, make sure that you have exclusionary coverage warranty, irrespective of how well inspected the car was beforehand. And of course, make sure to arrange for a a pre-purchase inspection; it's money very well spent.
The E would have newer software and capabilities. I liked the new MBUX UI way way more than the one in my 2018 S560 and it's nice not to have to lug a huge landyacht around, but... that's it. Given the choice, I would go (again) for a facelifted (2018+) S class and least the 560L trim so I can get the V8 as well as some extras that come as standard at this level.
There is one HUGE caveat to this, the old COMAND system is much better if you use carplay. The new MBUX system wont allow CarPlay to use the whole widescreen, the implementation is horrible. That issue alone will keep me from buying a GLS to replace my Pacifica since we use CarPlay every day. Likely we will get an X7 on the high end or something less expensive.
12-03-2022, 11:22 PM
