BeanBR

So, I'm starting to consider what my next purchase will be. It will only happen at the end of the year but I have already started the research. I'm thinking 2021 GLS450 or GLE450 just because I might want to have an SUV for while.

Anyways, my 2018 S450 has the 48V battery which has never given me any trouble. I've put in 21k miles on my car in one year (49k to 70k) and it's perfect. While reading through the GLS and GLE forums I notice several horror stories regarding the 48V system on 2021-2022 cars. Those same stories are, as far as I can tell, absent from the W222 forum. So my question is, are the 450 engines the same or are the newer ones significantly different?

I assumed they were the same engine but maybe the new ones have the 48V battery system but it's function within the engine is vastly different from the ones on the W222.

What gives?

E55Greasemonkey

More 167's sold than 222's. 167 assembled in Alabama, 222 in Germany. 222 owners are older and wealthier and typically don't participate in online forums, compared to typical 167 owner, younger, less disposable income. Some things to consider.

W205C43PFL

As mentioned and another possibility is that I guess the 48V system used in your vehicle was when MB still had the reliable suppliers, before Tesla bought them (that is what I heard) plus the chip shortage and stuff affected the numerous batches of 48V mild-hybrid systems in the 2019 model year vehicles onwards which as you know affected the V167 GLE. Otherwise the systems are very similar or exactly the same, I think they (the engines) are both M256? You could consider the GLE 350 but probably not since you might not like the four cylinder.

will_atl

We had a 2020 GLE350, and felt that it was a little underpowered, I would say look at the 450 or above if you go for a GLE. Now we have a GLS450, which we have had for a year, and we have had absolutely no issues with it, 48V system or otherwise. But the wife is now looking at a GLS580, coz she wants a little bit more power!

My own opinion is that the the GLS450 is head and shoulders above the GLE350, it just feels like an all together nicer vehicle.

cfmistry

I believe the 48V system is limited to the S560e. That is a very rare car and we have very few (read: maybe zero) active members of the forum with that vehicle.

Diesel Benz

No, the S560e is a true plug-in hybrid with a high voltage battery (don't know how "high", I think earlier plug-in hybrids were about 200, later ones about 400).

My W222 was a diesel, not familiar with all the gasoline variants. Wiki states a small electric engine equally on h-models (hybrid, not plug-in hybrid) but also for an S500e. Odd if the 500e is a true plug-in hybrid as the e should stand for but has a 48V like electric engine.

Wikipedia says the 48 V technology coming with the facelift but is it referring to the "h-models"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_S-Class_(W222)

W205C43PFL

not sure but the 450 facelift in some markets might also have the mild hybrid system (I mean, unless I am missing something doesn't OP have one?) , similar to how the W213 E 300 (or was it E 350) in some markets had the EQ Boost 48V mild-hybrid system while North America didn't.
I wonder if this article is talking about the W222, I think it is since it is dated 2017 while the W223 was released or announced in 2019 I think but not sure:
https://group-media.mercedes-benz.co...ficiency.xhtml
There is also this too: https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...48-volt-system

Sactownmb

I drive a my 2018 S 450 4dr sedan. I see no info in the car or in the owners manual about a 48V system. What am I missing information wise ?? Maybe a later delivery date ?

W205C43PFL

North America (if you are from that) I know with high confidence didn't get 48V mild hybrid tech in the facelift W222, just not sure about other markets.

BeanBR

Well, I might be wrong here. I assumed mine had because there is a little indicator of battery charge and use while using certain display modes that show engine data and constantly shows a battery bar either charging or providing energy to the system. Also, w222's in some markets did get the system when the facelift came along. I'm aware that EQ Boost is definitely something that came later and is not in my car.

Maybe all that the display is showing me is perhaps the charge on the auxiliary battery?

My car is US spec and pretty early 2018 delivery.

W205C43PFL

My bad, then I stand corrected since I didn't pay attention that OP you were in Florida so it is highly unlikely you had the 48V hybrid system. As for the battery thing I think I understand what you are talking about, correct me if I am wrong but is it this: https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...f8d87d844f.jpg
and/or this:
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...9744a474d.jpeg (not W222 but you get the idea)
The charge (right after the blue fuel consumption bar, and it is green) you are talking about is when you are coasting or braking, it shows the vehicle's alternator charging the 12V starter battery.
The voltage on the engine data screen is the voltage of the 12V starter battery,. that gauge is replaced by the transmission fluid temperature on amg cars.

BeanBR

Yep, that one right there in the first picture

So I guess this whole post was pointless 😂 sorry guys

W205C43PFL

All good, not really pointless since you were actively looking at a new vehicle and it might be an MB with a 48V hybrid system. It seems like most manufacturers have either 24V or 48V going forward for all new models or facelift models, it is a transition towards full electric, hopefully your experience is better.

Let us know your needs, wants, etc. and we forum members could hopefully help you decide what vehicle to get next.

fimpowde

Just happened to me 3 weeks ago, car still at dealer waiting for MB to respond. I have a 2021 GLS450 with 29k miles, no issues to date. Was driving with kids about 45 min from the house, in a bit of traffic on 2 lane highway, came to a stop and the warning of 48v system failure SHUT DOWN ENGINE IMMEDIATELY and then the car shutoff - with me in the left lane of traffic. After calling 911 cause i was blocking traffic and thought i needed a tow, but after ~15min it started again and luckely was only a mile to a MB dealer. They have not told me any details on why/what happened. Have no idea how long this is going to take, or what MB will do - but is there a point in time where I can push MB to fix it, or buy it back? After reading now through these threads i am really concerned over driving this car, especially with kids in it with me, what happens if it happens on a major highway at 65mph???

wildta

Please post their fix.

fimpowde

Just got the car back after 3 weeks in the shop, the mechanics went to MB for direction, basically they checked for software update, not needed, and replaced the 48v battery.
Here is some info from the service order:
- Performed roadtest and unable to reproduce issue
- Connect charger and perform quick test code B183316, 48v system restricted, check for software update per LI54.10-P-069698
- software up to date, no newer
- Opened PTSS case as per results of the LI
- initial analysis for transport was not ok
- locked vehicle and let sit for 70 min before checking again, battery now ok for transport
- Replace 48v battery, did road test all ok

NbyNW

This is the type of BS I can’t deal with for any MB with the 48v system. It’s why I found and bought a 2020 S560 W222 (US version, no hybrid stuff). There might be other issues but it’s highly unlikely it will just stop in the middle of the road somewhere needing a tow then to sit at a dealer for weeks.

wildta

Thank you for the report. Hopefully this fixes it. If you're in the US, please do report your issue to the NHTSA here:

https://www.nhtsa.gov/report-a-safet...le-information
​​​​​​

chassis

MB’s 48V system is 100% garbage and should be avoided entirely.

SW20S

I would avoid early cars with the 48V system, but I would not hesitate to buy a 2023 MB with the system. I'm 85% going to buy a GLS450 this fall/winter

S_W222

Why not consider the GLS 580? I assume you are factoring the engine reliability of the inline 6 being better? I recently had the opportunity to test drive the GLS 580 a couple of weeks ago, as you're aware. I really enjoyed how the engine performed, even though it's the same one in the W222. but.. . the GLS 580 had a more robust fun engine/drive sound, although it wasn't as dynamic as the W222. I understand the appeal of a smaller engine but am not sure it can still offer the same level of options/equipment as the 580. If you're considering the GLS 450, I'd also recommend taking a look at the X7 40i. but keep in mind that the newer X7 40i doesn't offer the option for the DHP "Dynamic Handling Package," and RWS which in view is a must for these SUVs, unless you're open to considering a Certified Pre-Owned 2022 model before the LCI update. The pre-LCI X7 with ID7 still offers better navigation and software than the MBUX system. The only reasons I would lean towards the GLS over the X7 are if I needed more space or if I really required the EABC system, even though DHP is claimed to be equivalent.

Update: I just took a look at the 23 GLS 450 build on the MBUSA website.. looks like you can choose all options/packages "~105K MSRP" except for (rear seat massage/executive package and E-ABC). And of course, rear seat entertainment isn't available, but it's not available in the X7 anyway too since 2020 MY.

BenzNinja

iTrader: (4)

agree

SW20S

If I were getting it for me to drive every day I would get the 580, but this will be a family vehicle and my wife will be the primary driver, not worth the extra money for the 580. I love the X7, but the access to the third row isn't acceptable to my wife, she insists kids be able to go between the second row captains chairs and they are too close together.

S_W222

Similar reason I chose the 40i for the X5, which she drives and enjoys the most. All options included but the smaller engine (wish it had DHP but it’s still perfect for its use).

fimpowde

well - had the car back for ~3weeks and yesterday morning go to start the car and it pops up with '48v system error' - at least this time i was not stopped in traffic somewhere. Called the dealer closest to my home to ask when i can bring it in - apparently they have 2 in the shop right now with SAME issue, and another on its way in this week - he said its becoming a common problem with the new voltage system. Arggg.... Now i have to figure out if they will give me a loaner - i bought the car at a dealership in another state, CPO, which i thought/was told it included loaner anywhere, but dealer here saying ONLY for cars bought at their dealerhsip.... here we go again....