Problem free ownership
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#27
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2015 S550
The W221 outsold the W222.
#28
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Current/Last 5-years: GLS,X5,Tesla,Accord; Sold:S560;S550,2x X7; X5;BMW 530e;Lincoln Navigator;LS460
Have you been on any BMW or Tesla forums yet? There you would find the true meaning of fanboi-istic users. Dare you you criticize any car even if you are making a comment about your own vehicle, lol. I think most Mbenz forums in general are still way more reasonable and non-biased than BMW and Tesla forums. Tesla forums are the worse, followed by BMW. If you want to be banned, write a thread about one Mbenz vehicle indicating it is better vehicle… : ).
#29
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Casual observations:-
1. Ave units sold per year for 221 (17,200) and 222 (16,700) are about the same. No significant difference.
2. 221 had big first year sales, much better than 222 and 223. Big buyer interest of the new model?
3. 221 had a surge in sales when it was facelifted for 2010.
4. 221 had a second surge at the final model year. People were quite satisfied with the 221?
5. 222 had no surge during its life cycle (particularly interesting and perplexing is even when it was facelifted for MY2018)
6. 222 had big sales drop at final model year. (This is interesting because the first year sales for W223 was not that big and so the reason for the drop was not that people were waiting for the then new W223)
7. 223 had relatively poor sales for the first (and 2nd) year. Probably because traditional S-Class buyers are less receptive to the 'new' tech?
1. Ave units sold per year for 221 (17,200) and 222 (16,700) are about the same. No significant difference.
2. 221 had big first year sales, much better than 222 and 223. Big buyer interest of the new model?
3. 221 had a surge in sales when it was facelifted for 2010.
4. 221 had a second surge at the final model year. People were quite satisfied with the 221?
5. 222 had no surge during its life cycle (particularly interesting and perplexing is even when it was facelifted for MY2018)
6. 222 had big sales drop at final model year. (This is interesting because the first year sales for W223 was not that big and so the reason for the drop was not that people were waiting for the then new W223)
7. 223 had relatively poor sales for the first (and 2nd) year. Probably because traditional S-Class buyers are less receptive to the 'new' tech?
Also bear in mind that today sales of big sedans are way down, the W223 solidly outsells anything else in its segment.
#30
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2010 E350 4Matic
Is it really fare to make any conclusions for the 2019-2021 years? First, Mbenz was cutting really hard on options due to COVID supply chain and part shortages and most people due to COVID decided to keep their money in their pockets and invest somewhere else other than buying cars... perhaps years 2019-2021 should be considered an outliers for that reason (specially 2020!! I mean there are times where we have not been even allowed to walk to a dealer in a lock-down!!!). Not to mention that waiting time has become much longer and many people decided to hold on their vehicles before upgrading. Under normal conditions, one would assume the W222 then would have far exceeded it's current sales numbers if things were just as normal as other years.
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SW20S (03-25-2023)
#31
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my fav look of all time is the w126, what a beautiful car.
I have a w220 and it has been a super solid car and it incorporated some design elements of the w126.
Mine is pretty much trouble free and im at 140k miles.
i also have a w222 and its a dream to own as the 4.0tt with a tune on it is amazing.
i am at 53k and changed many things myself, but nothing broke so far.
The look of the w222 reminds me a bit of cars from the 30’s with the way the sides are high and long.
the w221 i didnt like the design, too spartan for me.
the w190 as amazing as it may have been, it looked like it was made for the dystopian future, it looked bleak to me.
just my 2 cents
I have a w220 and it has been a super solid car and it incorporated some design elements of the w126.
Mine is pretty much trouble free and im at 140k miles.
i also have a w222 and its a dream to own as the 4.0tt with a tune on it is amazing.
i am at 53k and changed many things myself, but nothing broke so far.
The look of the w222 reminds me a bit of cars from the 30’s with the way the sides are high and long.
the w221 i didnt like the design, too spartan for me.
the w190 as amazing as it may have been, it looked like it was made for the dystopian future, it looked bleak to me.
just my 2 cents
#32
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PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
#33
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Yes, my point was not only people did not have money or were not willing to invest in 2020, but also factories did not produce enough cars too. Not sure how that compares to the great recession though, but I agree, fair comparison.
#34
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You're wrong again. That chart was sales by calendar year, not model year. And over 90% of calendar year sales in 2006 were 2007 model year W221's. Production of the final year (2006) model W220 ended at the end of 2005.
#35
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If we allocate 90% of 2006 sales to the W221 and 90% of 2013 sales to the W222 (deliveries began in March 2013), all of 2020 sales to the W222 (W223 did not see deliveries until 2021), then the W222 still outsold the W221 by 7,874 units. So....sorry...still not wrong.
#36
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If thats the case you still have the same issue on the back end when the W222 came out in 2013. You can't count 2006 sales as being W221s and also count 2013 sales as being W221s.
If we allocate 90% of 2006 sales to the W221 and 90% of 2013 sales to the W222 (deliveries began in March 2013), all of 2020 sales to the W222 (W223 did not see deliveries until 2021), then the W222 still outsold the W221 by 7,874 units. So....sorry...still not wrong.
If we allocate 90% of 2006 sales to the W221 and 90% of 2013 sales to the W222 (deliveries began in March 2013), all of 2020 sales to the W222 (W223 did not see deliveries until 2021), then the W222 still outsold the W221 by 7,874 units. So....sorry...still not wrong.
#37
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The W222 outsold the W221, like it or not. Can't wait to hear in what way you think you're right next!
Last edited by SW20S; 03-26-2023 at 07:22 PM.
#38
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Current/Last 5-years: GLS,X5,Tesla,Accord; Sold:S560;S550,2x X7; X5;BMW 530e;Lincoln Navigator;LS460
In all cases the sales numbers seem to be too close for either of them to overly outweigh the other one with a statistically valid difference that reflects buyers willingness to get one vs the other.
#39
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2020 S450 4Matic, 2022 GLS450 4Matic, 2015 C300
Back to reliability, I am at 55k, 15k of which I have put on. Based on what I have seen in the history of my car, the other thing that has been fixed is the drivers door window switch (rear driver side switch broke). Other than that it maintenance only, and the 20” rims have been repaired/replaced. Lots of tires and brakes!
#40
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2015 S550
Thats not the date I found for the on market date for the W222, I found March, but even using your numbers the W222 still outsells the 221. If you only use 40% of the 2013 sales to be W222s, it still outsells the 221 by 1,223 units. But sure, I'll "keep trying" lol
The W222 outsold the W221, like it or not. Can't wait to hear in what way you think you're right next!
The W222 outsold the W221, like it or not. Can't wait to hear in what way you think you're right next!
Have a nice day.
#41
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Back to reliability, I am at 55k, 15k of which I have put on. Based on what I have seen in the history of my car, the other thing that has been fixed is the drivers door window switch (rear driver side switch broke). Other than that it maintenance only, and the 20” rims have been repaired/replaced. Lots of tires and brakes!
#42
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My 2007 S600 had an in-service date of February 16, 2006 with a mfr date of 1-06. I highly doubt it was the first W221 put into production. Look at the numbers again and try to use a little common sense. I'll give you 90% for 2006 sales as being W221's (probably higher), especially with the steep drop off from the prior year as almost nobody wanted the W220 any more. Then look at the 2010 to 2013 sales. All very consistent. So "maybe" 35-40% of the sales from 2013 were W222 models, especially since sales didn't start until late Sept and assuming an up-tick for the new model. That would be consistent with 2014 & 2015 MY sales. It's close and consistent with S class US sales for both models, but the W221 out-sold the W222 slightly. The W221 was a HUGE improvement from the W220 in all aspects. The W222 definitely exceeds the W221 in technology, but as far as build quality and materials used, it was a cost cutting down-grade. Kind of like going from the W140 to the W220. Which gets back to my original point.
Have a nice day.
Have a nice day.
In many ways the W220 was a substantial improvement in over the W140 (lighter, air suspension, better fuel efficiency) but a poorly executed one (rust, can bus, as you say cost cutting measures including material quality.....). I would ten times rather have a nice well sorted W220 than a W140.
Last edited by MBNUT1; 03-27-2023 at 03:56 PM.
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SW20S (03-27-2023)
#43
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My 2007 S600 had an in-service date of February 16, 2006 with a mfr date of 1-06. I highly doubt it was the first W221 put into production. Look at the numbers again and try to use a little common sense. I'll give you 90% for 2006 sales as being W221's (probably higher), especially with the steep drop off from the prior year as almost nobody wanted the W220 any more. Then look at the 2010 to 2013 sales. All very consistent. So "maybe" 35-40% of the sales from 2013 were W222 models, especially since sales didn't start until late Sept and assuming an up-tick for the new model. That would be consistent with 2014 & 2015 MY sales. It's close and consistent with S class US sales for both models, but the W221 out-sold the W222 slightly. The W221 was a HUGE improvement from the W220 in all aspects. The W222 definitely exceeds the W221 in technology, but as far as build quality and materials used, it was a cost cutting down-grade. Kind of like going from the W140 to the W220. Which gets back to my original point.
Have a nice day.
Have a nice day.
As for the difference, I prefer the materials in the 222, I actually think the car feels higher quality inside than the 221 and I think the 222 rides better. Does the 221 feel more "solid" I can't really say, my W222 is as solid or more solid than any car I have ever had, and I had 4 Lexus LS sedans which are known for that. I'm 2.5 years in and 34,000 miles and my car is indistinguishable from new inside, there is no wear, no broken switches, no rattles or creaks. From a design perspective I think the 222 interior is dramatically more attractive than the 221, which I would classify as actually ugly inside. Exterior, I again much prefer the 222, although I wouldnt say the exterior of the 221 is ugly, it just never spoke to me the way the 221 does (nor does the 223).
From a reliability perspective, the 222 has a much better track record than the 221. Overall, the 222 is the superior product. The fact that this car has been more reliable than my previous Lexus vehicles is incredible.
Last edited by SW20S; 03-27-2023 at 03:22 PM.
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#44
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Another difference is that the S600 had ABC vs airmatic on the S550 which might have given a different feel. Again not disputing that there may have been some cost cutting from one model to the next. Someone who has had both would certainly know better than I.
Last edited by MBNUT1; 03-27-2023 at 04:08 PM.
#45
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The reality is, whenever there is a new model there is always some degree of cost cutting. It just is what it is...
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#47
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2015 S550
If you're going to keep using Biden logic, sure.
True for the 2007-2010 S550. But the 2011-2013 models used the same 4.7L Bi-turbo used in the 2014-2017 W222, which arguably is just as reliable or more so than the 4.0 Bi-turbo in the later models.
Definitely true when they went from the W140 to the W220 and the W221 to the W222. Nothing could be further from the truth going from the W220 to the W221, which was a major upgrade in features, materials, and build quality. Even Lexus uses higher end materials on their current interiors than MB uses on the W222, especially the switches, vents, and wood veneers. My W221 was also significantly quieter than my W222 and didn't have any of the rattles that my current car does. The W222 just isn't screwed together as well as the W221 was.
From a reliability perspective, the 222 has a much better track record than the 221. Overall, the 222 is the superior product. The fact that this car has been more reliable than my previous Lexus vehicles is incredible.
#48
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True for the 2007-2010 S550. But the 2011-2013 models used the same 4.7L Bi-turbo used in the 2014-2017 W222, which arguably is just as reliable or more so than the 4.0 Bi-turbo in the later models.
The 4.7L has some considerable high mileage reliability issues that were improved but not solved in the 222, but the 4.0 is the more reliable engine.
Even Lexus uses higher end materials on their current interiors than MB uses on the W222, especially the switches, vents, and wood veneers.
My W221 was also significantly quieter than my W222 and didn't have any of the rattles that my current car does. The W222 just isn't screwed together as well as the W221 was.
Last edited by SW20S; 03-27-2023 at 06:37 PM.
#49
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Try and pull apart the dash of a W222 like this lol
#50
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I just replaced the same switch a few months ago. Those cheap plastic switches are easy to break. Fortunately I found a new China made switch on evil-bay (I'm sure the majority of the plastic stuff on the W222 is made in China anyway) for $26 and installed it in less than 5 minutes. Works perfect! If it were of W221 quality, it would have never broken since those were made from aluminum.