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I had a former 2015 W222 RWD, I drove it all the way up to ~75K miles. No issues at all, paid zero dollars in maintenance up until 75K when dealer told me I need lower control arms on both sides due to suspension squeaking (quoted ~3.5K USD for that). I refused, sold the vehicle 2-3 months later to a Lincoln dealer as a trade-in for a Lincoln Navigator.
I am currently back to W222, with a face-lift S560 4-Matic, ~33K miles. I have the full service history, nothing since it came out of factory years ago other than a coolant line hose clamp.
Being on this W222 forum for a few years now, while also having BMWs and being an active forum user on BMW forums too, I can tell you that I hardly see any threads about mechanical problems with the W222 here and it's mostly "happy" threads, while the BMW X7 or X5 forums are 80% mechanical or electrical issue versus happy threads!!!!
I'm just now at 49k on my car. So far, only thing I've had to fix was an inoperative windshield washer motor. I do have the squeak in the front from old ball joints/bushings but haven't done anything about that yet.
Car drives beautifully and I'm very pleased with it.
I'm at almost 43k miles and have had mine almost 2.5 years. Other than an oil leak that I had shortly after getting the car that was covered under my after-market warranty, the car has only need the annual required maintenance.
After this amount of time of driving the car, I can candidly say that this car is nowhere near as bank vault solid as my previous W221 S600 was. Sure, it has less problems than my previous S. But that car felt like a tank whereas this one has an inferior build quality with inferior parts. The W221 used metal, real wood, and high end leather throughout the interior. The W222 is loaded with lots of cheap plastic parts, especially the switches, vents, etc. And the wood is thin veneer that is prone to cracking. The W221 was akin to the W140. The W222 is a modern version of the W220.
I'll take the better design, less problems and better technology, personally. My W222 is a very high quality car
Do we know any high-mileage users here with the new engine on the facelift 2018+? Just curious. Usually most Mbenz issues start to appear after 50-70K miles for some, and after 100K for the majority (if any design flaw issues do exist)
I'll take the better design, less problems and better technology, personally. My W222 is a very high quality car
The W221 was definitely a more manly looking car. The W222 has more feminine lines. The 222 design is definitely not better than the 221. Better tech....absolutely. Even new Hyundai's have better tech than the W221 from 2006. But there hasn't been a car built since that is as rock solid feeling with high quality parts as the W221, except for maybe a RR or Bentley. And now we have the W223, which is about as bland as you can get, especially for its price point. Then there's the EQ disasters. Ugh!!
Imo a 2018-2019 W222 S450 4MATIC is the most reliable 222. Solid M276 V6 and as mentioned earlier not many fundamental problems with the platform in the last 2-3 years of production.
M278 and M157 in the S550 and S63 are prone to a host of problems at higher mileage, extensively written about on this site.
Thought that it might be interesting to hear from owners who have driven over 50000 miles with no major issues, other than routine maintenance.
I have. But it is my 2006 Toyota Tundra. Tires, new headlights due to fogged plastic and one battery. 85,000 miles now. I still prefer my Mercedes though...
The W221 was definitely a more manly looking car. The W222 has more feminine lines. The 222 design is definitely not better than the 221. Better tech....absolutely. Even new Hyundai's have better tech than the W221 from 2006. But there hasn't been a car built since that is as rock solid feeling with high quality parts as the W221, except for maybe a RR or Bentley. And now we have the W223, which is about as bland as you can get, especially for its price point. Then there's the EQ disasters. Ugh!!
Thats your opinion. The W221 never appealed to me at all, I hate the design of the interior and I never cared for the big fender arches. No matter how vault solid they might have been just was never a car I had interest in having. As soon as I saw the W222, I knew I would eventually have to have one.
As for "manly" or "feminine", if you're worried about a car making you look "manly" or "feminine" thats a shame.
According to sales figures, the 222 outsold the 221 most years so I don't think my preference is unusual:
The W221 was definitely a more manly looking car. The W222 has more feminine lines. The 222 design is definitely not better than the 221. Better tech....absolutely. Even new Hyundai's have better tech than the W221 from 2006. But there hasn't been a car built since that is as rock solid feeling with high quality parts as the W221, except for maybe a RR or Bentley. And now we have the W223, which is about as bland as you can get, especially for its price point. Then there's the EQ disasters. Ugh!!
hmmm, interesting thoughts but I understand your point. I love the W221, but I think the W222 looks more elegant. I don't see either of them being more "manly" or "feminine" or not even sure how I could see that in a car. All new cars first appear to be awkward. When the W223 was first revealed, I hated the rear and thought front looks okay. Now after it has grown on me (I don't have a W223 though), I actually love the rear and overall design, but I hate the front. W222 has the best front and balanced rear, but W223 has grown on me. If W222 still did not grow on you, maybe you really really really love the W221 design, which I don't disagree with but I think W222 will live longer as a new modern vehicle before it starts to look outdated. For sure the W223 did not make the W222 look outdated, but I think the W222 did make the W221 appear outdated. Just my opinion, I respect all different views including yours.
I'm at almost 43k miles and have had mine almost 2.5 years. Other than an oil leak that I had shortly after getting the car that was covered under my after-market warranty, the car has only need the annual required maintenance.
After this amount of time of driving the car, I can candidly say that this car is nowhere near as bank vault solid as my previous W221 S600 was. Sure, it has less problems than my previous S. But that car felt like a tank whereas this one has an inferior build quality with inferior parts. The W221 used metal, real wood, and high end leather throughout the interior. The W222 is loaded with lots of cheap plastic parts, especially the switches, vents, etc. And the wood is thin veneer that is prone to cracking. The W221 was akin to the W140. The W222 is a modern version of the W220.
I suspect in general what you are saying is true about the material quality. As you are observing I think the interiors of older W221 are holding up better than the W222's. Do you think the fact that you had a S600 and you now have an S550 have any influence in this? For sure the S600 had more (better?) leather than the S550 did correct?
I still prefer the design of both the W222 and W220 to their predecessors. I don't think that the fender bulges on the W221 aged particularly well but get that it has more imposing if less elegant looks. The W140 never did anything for me in the looks department. Never aspired to own one.
I still prefer the design of both the W222 and W220 to their predecessors. I don't think that the fender bulges on the W221 aged particularly well but get that it has more imposing if less elegant looks. The W140 never did anything for me in the looks department. Never aspired to own one.
Same, I recognize that the W140 was a superior vehicle (I don't cede that for the W221), but the W220 was much more appealing to me.
Same, I recognize that the W140 was a superior vehicle (I don't cede that for the W221), but the W220 was much more appealing to me.
The W140 was superior last of the not built to cost until your ac evap went out (which happened more often than not) and you had the joy of tearing the dashboard apart.
I suspect in general what you are saying is true about the material quality. As you are observing I think the interiors of older W221 are holding up better than the W222's. Do you think the fact that you had a S600 and you now have an S550 have any influence in this? For sure the S600 had more (better?) leather than the S550 did correct?
I still prefer the design of both the W222 and W220 to their predecessors. I don't think that the fender bulges on the W221 aged particularly well but get that it has more imposing if less elegant looks. The W140 never did anything for me in the looks department. Never aspired to own one.
I had/have both W222s. My former S550 W222 had the Nappa Leather and it was great. My current S560 W222 had the semi-aniline leather (highest tier) and I can tell you that things like these have a HUGE impact on how you enjoy the cabin and the luxury feels more pronounced with just a change in leather and seats quality. Despite being the same exact build quality, the the semi-aniline texture and seats design alone makes you “feel” the cabin is built differently.
hence, if someone had S600 W221 and then switched to S550 W222 I assume that the interior leather and cabin seats will have a huge impact on how the vehicle feels on the quality scale side (it can me deceiving on some cases).
Thats your opinion. The W221 never appealed to me at all, I hate the design of the interior and I never cared for the big fender arches. No matter how vault solid they might have been just was never a car I had interest in having. As soon as I saw the W222, I knew I would eventually have to have one.
As for "manly" or "feminine", if you're worried about a car making you look "manly" or "feminine" thats a shame.
According to sales figures, the 222 outsold the 221 most years so I don't think my preference is unusual:
LOL!!! My comments were that the W221 was a more masculine design and the W222 was more feminine. Several auto journalists made the same remarks. The W221 actually sold better than the W222 according to the numbers you provided. The W221 sold from 2006-2013 while the W222 sold from 2014 to 2021. 6200 more cars for the W221 by my addition. You are certainly allowed your own preferences. All I was saying is that the W221 was more solid with higher end materials. And it drove better too because it was more solid.
Same, I recognize that the W140 was a superior vehicle (I don't cede that for the W221), but the W220 was much more appealing to me.
That's interesting. Most experts pan the W220 as a major downgrade from the W140. The W140 was out at a time when MB greatly over-built their cars and they were well known for being bullet-proof and having no cap on the cost of building and developing the best luxury car in the world. The W220 was widely regarded as a major step backward from what MB was all about and was built with cheap materials, significantly smaller and lighter, and didn't ride anything like the W140. It was a major cost-cutting effort by MB and was the first time MB went backwards with a car model in their storied history. They went from being the pinnacle that all other luxury car makers strived to be (especially Lexus) to actually building a car that was in many ways inferior to the LS 400. I know it sold better than the W140, but only because it was much less expensive.
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
OP, thanks for starting this thread, it is always an interesting topic to discuss about, I just want to add I also came across this thread and too discuss the various generations of S-Class: https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...le-future.html
LOL!!! My comments were that the W221 was a more masculine design and the W222 was more feminine. Several auto journalists made the same remarks. The W221 actually sold better than the W222 according to the numbers you provided. The W221 sold from 2006-2013 while the W222 sold from 2014 to 2021. 6200 more cars for the W221 by my addition. You are certainly allowed your own preferences. All I was saying is that the W221 was more solid with higher end materials. And it drove better too because it was more solid.
No. Those are model years, so 2006 sales are the W220 and 2021 sales are the W223.
I just completely disagree with you. IMO the W221 had several material choices in the interior that were pretty crappy, quite frankly and I find the W222 much nicer inside. Ride and drive, I never had a W221 but I have driven several of them, and I prefer how the 222 rides and drives. I also don't see whats masculine about the 221 or feminine about the 222.
Originally Posted by DaveW68
That's interesting. Most experts pan the W220 as a major downgrade from the W140. The W140 was out at a time when MB greatly over-built their cars and they were well known for being bullet-proof and having no cap on the cost of building and developing the best luxury car in the world. The W220 was widely regarded as a major step backward from what MB was all about and was built with cheap materials, significantly smaller and lighter, and didn't ride anything like the W140. It was a major cost-cutting effort by MB and was the first time MB went backwards with a car model in their storied history. They went from being the pinnacle that all other luxury car makers strived to be (especially Lexus) to actually building a car that was in many ways inferior to the LS 400. I know it sold better than the W140, but only because it was much less expensive.
I absolutely see that, but the design of the 220 is way more appealing to me.
1. Ave units sold per year for 221 (17,200) and 222 (16,700) are about the same. No significant difference.
2. 221 had big first year sales, much better than 222 and 223. Big buyer interest of the new model?
3. 221 had a surge in sales when it was facelifted for 2010.
4. 221 had a second surge at the final model year. People were quite satisfied with the 221?
5. 222 had no surge during its life cycle (particularly interesting and perplexing is even when it was facelifted for MY2018)
6. 222 had big sales drop at final model year. (This is interesting because the first year sales for W223 was not that big and so the reason for the drop was not that people were waiting for the then new W223)
7. 223 had relatively poor sales for the first (and 2nd) year. Probably because traditional S-Class buyers are less receptive to the 'new' tech?
Very interesting sales numbers ... confirm what I suspected, not seeing many W223s where I live
Would be interesting to see how many v6 cars in the W222 numbers. Surely Mercedes brought this model in a lower price point to goose total sales ... what was the trend of just v8 sales for W222 and W223?
Last edited by Tom in Austin; 03-24-2023 at 11:48 PM.
Is it really fare to make any conclusions for the 2019-2021 years? First, Mbenz was cutting really hard on options due to COVID supply chain and part shortages and most people due to COVID decided to keep their money in their pockets and invest somewhere else other than buying cars... perhaps years 2019-2021 should be considered an outliers for that reason (specially 2020!! I mean there are times where we have not been even allowed to walk to a dealer in a lock-down!!!). Not to mention that waiting time has become much longer and many people decided to hold on their vehicles before upgrading. Under normal conditions, one would assume the W222 then would have far exceeded it's current sales numbers if things were just as normal as other years.
This thread, S-Class sections in general, and the 167 section are most biased and fanboi-istic on this site. "My car is best!" "No! You're wrong! My car is best!"
03-24-2023, 08:01 AM
