SW20S

I think this is a little dramatic lol. I don't see how you can "loathe" the W223 and love the W222. They are way more similar than they are different, and many people wouldn't notice a difference. If I got a white 223, I bet none of my neioghbors would even notice I got a new car. Being sad you owned it? Come on lol. I think the 223 is a little more generic looking than the 222, but I think its a great looking car. My issues with it all have to do with the interior...

If somebody offered me a 223 as an even swap for my 222, I would take it without hesitation. Am I excited about spending $1,000 a month more than I have spent on my 222 for a 223? No. Would I pay $2-300 a month more? Yes. If I could get a 223 for what I am paying for my 222 would I be driving a 223 now? Yes.

carlosinseattle

Interesting thoughts about the W223. I have similar conclusions but for different reasons. I never liked the look of exterior of the W221, it looked like it was trying too hard to look "sporty." In contrast to that, I had a W220 S600 and loved how that car looked, even from day 1. I also LOVED the W222 from day 1, inside and out, wish I had bought one sooner than I did. I had a W223 loaner car for 2 months and I found it to be quieter than the W222, but I can't say there was anything about the driving dynamics that I liked more than the W222, curious what you found to be better. And the regenerative brakes were terrible, REALLY TOUGH to get used to for me. I was always surprised by the transition from regen to mechanical; it caused me to leave a lot of extra room between me and the car in front. And while I didn't like the look of the interior of the W223 in pictures, in person it was the opposite. In fact, my perfect car would be the interior of a W223 with a W222 exterior. I always got/get comments when driving my W222 and never got one comments in 2 months about the look of the W223. I think one of the problems with all the newer luxury flagships is the cost of these cars is getting way up there. We had the craze of the pandemic supply chain problems causing over inflated prices for a couple years, but that was offset by the low cost of lending. Money isn't cheap anymore, and prices have risen - a one-two punch for consumers. I thought a W222 S63 was priced too high, and I still do, but the prices across the line for W223's are even harder to justify. I'm really curious to see how much demand there is for the new S63, with prices expected to start around $180K and easily get to $220K with options.

SW20S

I also like the interior of the 223 way more in person than in pictures, but I don't like it nearly as much as my 222 inside. Ridewise I would say it feels less dynamic than the 222, rides perhaps slightly softer but also feels bargier and not as light on its feet. Quieter for sure, but the 222 is extremely quiet anyways.

S_W222

I think my definition and what I mean by driving dynamics is a bit different than yours, hence I also share the same view as you if I used "dynamics" the same way as you. I don't disagree with the above at all. What I mean about the dynamics is how mumble and easy to maneuver the car is, combined with comfort under both high/low speed. Rear axle steering is just awesome and I do miss it a lot after driving the BMW X7 M50i which has it and then driving other cars without it . As for Regen, I actually like that aspect to on the dynamics side because we had a number of PHEV cars, and we always had at least one hybrid Japanese car since 2005 or so. The PHEV specifically all have regen, and I like it just because am used it to it because it reduced the need for me to switch my foot from gas to brakes.

S_W222

Duplicated accidently. Admin, pls remove.

carlosinseattle

The loaner car I had wasn't equipped with the higher degree of rear axle steering, so it didn't seem to make any difference for me, at least none I can remember. My wife's Venza is a hybrid and I never feel/felt the weird shift from regen to mechanical braking like I did on the W223, glad you had a better expereince. I rented a Tesla this past weekend while in LA and I LOVED the one foot driving, it was a 2023 model Y. I assume your Tesla also has 1 pedal driving?? I drive slot cars for a hobby/fun and it was just like driving a slot car, fun!

S_W222

Well, now I understand your point. Yes, Mbenz and BMW new EVs have a disadvantage right now because they do blending of regen into braking. Also, self-moving brake pedal in some of them for the regen function is silly and laughable to be honest. Tesla is different and does not have blending that way at all. I am not sure if Toyota hybrids have re-gen, so what you noticed (maybe) is normal. All hybrids we had were Hondas including a PHEV accord back in the days when they were available. Our current Accord has regen and it is adjustable.
As for the 1 pedal driving and regen in the Tesla cars, yeah, they are all the same, and once u get used to it, it is very well dialed it and fun + easy to use on the comfort side. My wife wants the Y, but I really think her X5 or the X7 is a better value proposition than the Y given the size difference and suspension comfort. Back to brake blending and the weird feeling in german vehicles, there is just no way around it and I felt it in our 530e too, and I felt it in the W223 as well; Though I still prefer Regen even when not fully dialed in. The advantage of Tesla cars is that once u push the brakes it is actually the real brakes doing the action immediately, there is no blending whatsoever.... Wherein most other manufacturers have a blended Regen+real braking, and that blending no matter what is always weird (I think they need to let go the physics they were used to with ICE vehicles). In Tesla, if you let go the accelerator it means full regen, and then it is actually the accelerator pedal itself that fades out the regen braking vs eliminating it for power. That's the reason for true one pedal driving. Completely different concepts, and it will take manufacturers plenty of time to dial it in as they navigate the EV space and take the blending out of the braking pedal. I found the dynamics of EVs to be so different from ICE. Despite all that I still liked the regen in the W223 better than a no-gen concept at all.

NJ560

I just don’t like the interior of the W223 as much as my W222.

The two screens look like afterthoughts, and a handful of buttons for key functions is not a bad thing at all.

Really hope the designers can make a less disjointed looking dash on the mid-cycle refresh. For now I hang on to my W222. Hyperscreen, like what’s in the EQS 1990’s Apple mouse of a car, is just awesome.

Cadillac hit a home run with their dashboard and the 38” curved screen. It looks elegant and designed in, not stuck on with command strips at the last second.

Streamliner

Yes! “BARGIER!” I had not thought of that, but that description—if that’s a real word—hits the nail on the head for me. My S580 FELT so much larger than my new-to-me S560 and the driving position dynamics were just not as good as in the S560. I know that I was predisposed to like the S560 more after my fiasco with the S580, but it REALLY is a completely different driving experience and to me, a MUCH better one. The seats are more comfortable, the interior appearance more pleasing & finished looking. The ingress/egress much better in the older car. Just little things like the doors actually STAYING open like they should and not closing on your legs is something that you really don’t know how much you will miss until you don’t have it anymore. Not needing gorilla arms to close the doors is another thing. The S580 should have electric opening/closing doors like the Genesis G90 & BMW 7. My S580 had most every option. My S560 is a fairly basic example, but it suits me SO much better. For 18 months I was constantly irritated by the S580. Today, going for a drive in my new “old” car is delightful!

SW20S

Yep, something about the 560 just feels "right" and the 580 feels "off" in the ride/handling/dynamics balance.

My 560 is a fairly low option car too, but really there isnt anything about it I seriously dislike which is really something...

JohnLane

Mercedes builds a product that is ugly inside and out.... I’m not interested.

BMW gives its cars an ugly face.... not interested.

There are enough people who feel similarly about them.

Current S-Class has the pig nose. LOL

Can’t stand the IPads. Some of us want the tactile sensation that goes with pressing a button that you need not look away from the road to do.

SW20S

I think MB makes very few cars that are ugly…

emilner

I wouldn't call the 223 ugly, but it sure isn't attractive. It is by far the most plain Jane car MB has made in generations. I would say it's a very nice looking Oldsmobile.

SW20S

I completely disagree, its very attractive its just a little more plain than the 222.

carlosinseattle

Bueaty is subjective, and while I'm not a fan of the W223, I wouldn't call it ugly or even unattractive. I would describe the look as somehting that lacks passion, maybe bland.

The screens and new type of buttons are there for a reason. They allow functions to be added deleted and changed through firmware changes instead of hardware changes. every input is fed the the CAN BUS system with a low voltage signal, but not necessarily tied to a physical locations, so theiretically a seat button could become a climate control button if you wanted your car configured that way. While I'm miss the tactile feel of a "real" button, especially the stupid seat and steering wheel buttons, I understand and appreciate their purpose. Some car companies are trying to develop their own proprietary operating systems and forcing suppliers to design components that will work with their brand specific OS. Toyota is leading the way in that effort right now, it will be interesting to see how that changes things.

NJ560

One of my businesses is involved in manufacture of broadcast and AV equipment. The bottom line is that a screen is cheaper than the buttons. It has nothing to do with ergonomics and customizable buttons and everything to do with cost.

That OLED screen probably runs them about $80 cost from China vs how many buttons at $5-10 each? Spread that over nearly 100,000 cars and it can be a savings of around $40m per year.

Thats why we have the iPad.

carlosinseattle

I don't disagree that there's a cost savings, but that's taking a myopic view on the issue. The MB touchscreens are 1000X better than the screens in my wife's Toyota Venza. Her car is a wonderful car, but the controls are maddening, test drive one of those and then you'll see what "cost savings" really amount to in terms of how it's executed. The advantages of not linking physical buttons through hard wiring are tremendous and an equally, if not more important, driving force behind screens. Just like your cell phone, imagine how difficult it would be to use on if you only had physical buttons instead of screens. Here's an article about Toyota developing it's own operating system: https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...%20on%20Monday.

SW20S

This is driven by modernity and trying to appeal to a younger demographic that like screens, a'la Tesla. Cost savings may be a benefit but its not the driving reason.

S_W222

I agree, touchscreens and large screens (iPad design) to me are very appealing, but the lack of physical touch buttons is the issue with the W223. I love the interior design by Range Rover... they do have the "iPad design" but they still have a reasonable number of physical buttons. MBenz went a route that is appealing (large touchscreens) but they forgot about the physical buttons which confirms that their interest was either simplicity or costs savings (or both?).

carlosinseattle

I'm probably not in the camp of loving touchscreens, but I do appreciate how they elevate the possibilities and reduce clutter. I was totally frustrated with trying to find even the most basic of functions on the Tesla Model Y I had as a rental last weekend. The need to go into the thouch screen to simply adjust the mirrors or driver's seat position is ridiculous. And the worst part was how to turn the car off. 7+ screen/button presses to get to the 3rd sub menu for the "Power-Off" button means I'll NEVER buy that car. I've never seen the Range Rover in person, but might drop in and take a look someday at a dealership. Several years ago I decided I wanted to buy a Porsche Panamera, nicely optioned. The driving dynamics were out of this world incredible to me, the dealership let me take one home for an entire weekend to see if I liked it. I couldn't get past the array of buttons and switches; I felt like a pilot preparing for takeoff instead of a guy driving a car. It had too many buttons!! So I didn't buy it for that reason. For my taste, the W223 has a decent balance of buttons/whitches and screens. But I hate the feel of the fake buttons, both on the steering wheel and the seat controls. I apreciate the techno reasons, but don't like the experience. And when you think about it...the experience is what really matters.

NJ560

Here’s the difference between a cell phone and a car: I’m looking at my cell phone.

We have the same argument going on in radio studios right now, fast paced shows need the physical faders and buttons so they can run it without looking at it.

And the Benz oled’s are dirt cheap. Trust me. What do you think the one in an iPad runs Apple? Probably about $55 at most. There’s at least a 100% mark up on an iPad.

Maybe this one costs Benz $125 because of the customization and low volume compared to what Apple moves in a year.

It is still driven by cost savings. And Mercedes weird fascination with trying to copy Tesla instead of being the leader.

I am hopeful there’s a hyperscreen option in the facelift of the 223, not the afterthought iPad.

S_W222

I agree with you that I feel the W223 has a reasonable balance between switches/buttons and touchscreen functions (but I wish the button where physical ones). I could take a few more. I love the balance in the new Range Rover vehicles. A large screen and also a large panel for buttons and the AC. Feels classy. Before we got our X7 last year, I almost got a RR Sport PHEV, but the 3rd row SUV was a must have. As for the power-off in the Tesla, lolol, that was fun story.. Reminds me of my first day owning a Tesla too. By the way there is no need ever do a power-off (or even power on), U just jump in and go (even the Drive or Reverse out of Park can be automated, and there is no reaon to turn off the car either, just open the door and walk-away. If you mean, screen-off, that's a different story and yah i need maybe 2-3 buttons/swipes, but there is a way around it as u get used to the car through the customization of the shortcuts for a zero-layer one button or touch.

NbyNW

Did they fix the 48v system from bricking the car?

When I was looking 6-8 months ago the GM at my dealer said they had a few in the shop and another being towed in the next day.