carlosinseattle

Agreed about SW205's expereince...we know that to be true. But I can't remember this happening to anybody else on this section of the forum or corresponding section on the other benz forum. As far as the fact that there's a lot of work to do to change the components; I kind of agree. We know from labor quotes that guys have shared that it's a lot of work, but with all the electric and hybrid drivetrains out there I bet those whould have similar book hours for similar work. Packaging a lot of things into a small space will always drive costly repairs, whether its MB or any manufacturer. And I don't think anybody who buys one of these expensive, or very expensive - depending on who you ask - cars, expect repairs to be cheap.

I appreciate a heads up and sound advice as much as anybody. But what's missing is perspective. To say something is common means it's happens more often than something else. It's not clear if "common" means when a MB car has a repair, it's common for it to be this type of repair done, or if common means these problems happens more frequently than with other cars. We can assume, but without numbers to substantiate the claim, we're just pis.... in the wind.

SW20S

No, they're not a myth.

And please point us to all the 278s with the iron liners with engines that need replaced? I seem to see a distinct lack of that here.

You need to define "long term reliable". I have no doubt either engine with good maintenance can survive 200k+ miles.

Yes, I just had this done, it was a big repair, 24 hours labor. Not common on the M176, more common on the M177 and M178. This would be a smaller repair on the M278 because the valve covers are easier to access. Its caused by clogged oil separators which increase oil pressure and foul the gasket. My independent recommends 5k OCIs to avoid that, I will do 5k OCIs from now on.

My car was the first valve cover gasket repair that dealer has done on an M176.Someone in my thread called the shop who made those videos and he had also never seen the gaskets fail on an M176, only M177 and 178.

chassis

Point to the genuine MB-authored document that specifies iron liners for M278.

Sadly, MB produces garbage engines and transmissions. Exciting when new, and garbage with anything more than de minimis mileage.

SW20S

I can point you to a boreoscope where you can clearly see the iron liners lol

Again, you share your very tired diatribe about Mercedes engines with no examples or evidence to back up what you say. We have all kinds of members here with these cars with not insignificant mileage that are having enjoyable experiences with these cars and you just ignore all of that.

I don’t think anybody would suggest a Mercedes is a car you would buy and drive to 250,000 miles with zero issues, but to say the engines “don’t last past minimum mileage” is a bold claim with absolutely zero evidence reflected here or offered by you to back it up.

carlosinseattle

People feel empowered when they say something negative. Problem is that he only has to be right once, even if he's wrong literally 250,000 other times, to feel justified. And reliability and durability aren't the same thing. I'm sure some other engines can take more abuse. Low power and less effeceint engines generally can survive with poorer maintenance and take more abuse. However, most high performance engines can't take much abuse; that's the nature of the beast, whether it's on road cars or race engines.

And here's the even bigger point; maintenance, including timeliness of repairs, and a customer's driving history and style can destroy even the most robust engine. I like buying off-lease cars so I don't pay new car prices. I'll also buy a used non-CPO, but only 1 owner cars. I will not buy a high end car that's been stiing for months on a dealer lot several times in its lifetime. A car like that has surely been abused, not intentionallly, but the results are the same. Short duration trips, while still cold, hard acceleration pulls, exposure to all types of weather, and the potential for substandard maintenance and repairs. That type of stuff destroys any car, or at least decreases its service life. The build up of excess crankcase pressure can be a direct result of these short duration trips where the car rarely reaches optimal engine operating temps. And even when buying a 1-owner car, if the previous owner abused it I'm out of luck. But all this negativity without any empircal data is stupid. Real numbers mean something, but theories anecdotes and conjecture only muddy the waters.

Nico9182349

I can only offer anecdotal evidence but the M176 should be the more reliable engine and the M177 has been around for almost 10 years by now. One thing that is noteworthy is that this engine was actually developed by AMG, so the M176 base is built for way more power. The M278 was the other way around, it's not meant to be a performance engine. I remember tons of cars with a swapped engine on the used cars market for the M278. I have not seen a single M176 car with a swapped engine. We had a lot of M278s in the family and we never had issues but the highest mileage we got to was around 75k and they were always serviced at the dealer. We never kept those cars outside of warranty. I have reached that point with my M176 now but I will keep the car cause I feel more confident about it than the M278. I do have the MB warranty though.
Since the thread starter is from Germany I assume you know the tons of videos about the M278 by Motoren Zimmer and Shift2Passion? Motoren Zimmer has a video where they say a lot of good things about the M176/M177/M178 as well. Worth watching. Even if the M176 is harder to work on I'd still get that instead of an engine with lots of known issues that is easier to work on. You better be a good mechanic if you want to own any of them outside of warranty though.

I can also say something about the R744 AC. It's great when it works but I had lots of issues with it. However I'm in my third year without issues after the condenser and two lines or so were replaced. If it holds up through summer I do consider it fixed for my car. @Quenthel also has no issues but had something replaced on it.

Tomislav

Thanks for the responses.

I have decided to get a S 500 with M278, but I'm still searching for it, because I want one with 9G and exclusive package.

The engine is not the reason, it's the R744 AC in Europe. This AC was only built in some W222 FL and W213 and to me it seems that too many people have unsolved or recurrent issues with it. VW ID models with this AC have issues, too.

Nico9182349

Try and get the latest one you can find. I was in the market for the same but ended up going with the M176 instead. Which I have regretted at times due to the AC issues so I understand.

Come back to post the car when you have found it. I'm curious. One of the reasons I did not go with the pre facelift was that I couldnt really find clean cars with warranty.

SW20S

What I have learned from the 3 years I have spent in the German car ownership world vs the 20+ years I spent owning Lexus vehicles is that maintenance and even over-maintaining the car is really important. Most people who own a car like this and get to the point where they say "this is falling apart and the repairs are overwhelming me", they haven't kept up with the maintenance and repairs and have stuff that is deferred. You don't want to let that happen, you want to get right on stuff and get it dealt with so things don't pile up. Case in point my valve cover repair. It would be easy to just defer that as a big expense and keep driving but eventually that will catch up to you.

With my Lexus vehicles, you literally could just change the oil and drive them half broken all the time and they would keep going. Thats not the case here. I can tell you having owned the best Lexuses made and now having this, the tradeoff is worth it.

603benztech

Appreciate the kind words my fellow MB friend❤️. I’m going to go back to fixing Mercedes and making my clients happy, which is the only reason why my “ COMMON” problem videos make it here. It doesn’t make it here for the likes 👍🏾, it makes it here because of the hard work my team and I put in ❤️🏎️💨

SW20S

I think we would benefit from you staying here, and I hope you will.

I didn't take your videos as being scare tactics at all. When you say "common" issues to me what you were saying was these are failure points that exist in these engines you should be aware of. That doesn't mean those repairs are required on all or even most engines. EVERY engine has common failure points. Coming from the Lexus world I can tell you that someone could make a video just like this about a Lexus/Toyota engine, they have common failures too. UR V8s with the valley plate leaks are a great example, thats a similarly huge job to this job (not as huge)

Your video was the ONLY information I found ANYWHERE about my valve cover leak and repair, and I really appreciated the information. Real information benefits all of us.

carlosinseattle

I agree with SW205; hang out with us. I know you have valuable information to share. AND, if you were closer to me I'd take my car to your shop.