MrMischief

I bought my wife CPO Honda Accord Touring last fall. It’s supposed to have AC flow through the seats, I can’t feel anything. Maybe because I’m not 112lbs I’m restricting the airflow? LOL!

S_W222

Wow…. 60K for that car?????? Are they a Mercedes dealer? Sounds like they have no idea what kind of car and options they have. I wouldn’t even pay 50K for that car. It’s too basic options wise that I’d even consider it a very rare spec’ed car! I don’t think any W222 with that kind of mileage worth 60K now, even fully loaded ones. No way.

OP, consider bidding on this car: https://carsandbids.com/auctions/r4R...enz-s560-sedan

Most cars on C&B sell for fair market value. This car is not fully loaded by any means but it is not basic either. Has most of what you’d need.

MrMischief

I appreciate your information but too many hoops to jump through to buy this way and I have to wonder on a half dozen things.
This car is from WI and they have worse winters than PA does.
It’s far away and with wheel damage and other things to fix, transportation and fees by the time the bid gets to the seller’s reserve and with all the buyers costs, sitting on the edge of my seat waiting 3 or 4 weeks to get this car - it’s out of my comfort zone. If it was a lot closer, maybe. There stands to be a lot of money to lose if something doesn’t go right and getting legal recourse in another state? I’d rather be a seller.
FYI, I like auctions and I go to the best auction houses in this country for my hobby spending 10s of thousands, but they have safeties in place that assure a buyer is safe.

SW20S

Cars & Bids has safeties in place too, that auction is no reserve and that car has a pre-purchase inspection attached to the listing. I wouldn't hesitate to buy that car. The wheel damage is nothing, any car you buy used will have minor wheel damage like that. At 11k miles winter salt isn't an issue either, thats 2,500 miles a year.

My only hesitation with that car is that the oil is overfilled...

S_W222

I understand what you're saying. I bought my second W222 from someone I never met, completely sight unseen, so I get that everyone's risk tolerance is different. By the way, once you submit even a small bid, the site allows you to communicate privately with the seller. This gives you a chance to gauge whether they’re trustworthy—maybe do a FaceTime call, have them walk around the car, etc. With a Lemon Squad inspection and the chance to talk directly with the seller, I think most of the risk is minimized. My buyer did Lemon Squad on my car when I sold it; I was really impressed with the level of detail and time they spent around the car. They found minor issues that I've never ever seen (like dings and minor scratches, and stuff like that, that are nearly impossible to see from any angle). I'll surely do Lemon Squad if I buy a pre-owned car sight unseen in the future.

Hopefully you'll find the car you want. There should be a good number of 2020 W222 lease return cars on the market nowadays, maybe less 2019 and 2018s. We're almost outside the window of 2020 lease returns and getting closer to 2021s now. If 60K was within your budget, and if you are willing, you might add just a tiny bit more and get a pre-owned 2021 W223 (better car in my view for a small difference relatively speaking).

MrMischief

Hmmm . . . . I just glossed over, I have to re read that info again. I only read a list I thought was the options but then they are listing all the standard features. How much would you bid up to on this car? Please remember the expenses required to get this car is the real price.
I’ll have to lock up a card until the auction ends.

MrMischief

I read here many owners recommended staying clear of the Covid years. Even the dealers are telling me about missing options and things on the 2021 and 2022 cars so there has to be “Some truth to some extent.” I realize there will also be plenty of people with the W223 cars and no problems whatsoever. I actually like the W223 cars but they are at least another $15,000 to $20,000 more and have yet to hit the slower point of the new car depreciation curve.

carlosinseattle

This car probably didn't sell quickly because of Covid, but it was built far in advance of Covid. MY 2021-2022 were the Covid year cars.
Lemon Squad is good, but when I bought my car out of state I used a couple companies that perform a deeper inspection. They cost more, but they do more. No knock on Lemon Squad, their pricing is fair and they have great service. But I wanted more detail than Lemon Squad could offer. If you want more info, PM me and I'll share it with you directly.
This particular car is in great shape. However....opinion time. I don't put a premium on cars with super low miles. I like below average to average mileage, and will buy a higher mileage used car if the price is right. Mother nature is undefeated. Time, as much as use, affects the car. In other words, not sure if it's worth paying above market price because of super low miles. The good thing is that cars tend to sell for cheaper than market value on Cars & Bids, so you might have a winner here. This car has appropriate maintenance for mileage, and age, so no hesitation there. But the high engine oil is not good. Seller says oil was changed 1200-1300 miles ago, so probably not a big deal. Only problem is that if the oil level is too high, the crankshaft splashes the oil in the crankcase, which produces frothy oil, and that can cause excess crankcase pressure and reduced lubrication. More than likely, that's not the case with this car, but just wanted to give you worst case scenario from high engine oil. MB might even have a warning for too much oil if it gets to a point where problems happen. My gut tells me that's the case, but someone with more knowledge then me can maybe chime in.

MrMischief

I appreciate your observations and knowledge. There use to be a German Auto repair shop near me. By the time Covid calmed down they suffered slow business and lost technical help. The owner had told me these cars don’t take well to sitting, he hears questions raised about parts and systems failing disproportionately between very low mileage and average or above average mileage cars. True or speculation - who knows.

I’ll come right out and say - IMHO, I don’t believe the seller will let this car go with all that has to be done selling this way for much less then selling to a MB dealer. In my mind there is greater risks, time and conditions trying to save some money. I would have to foot the bills that add up quickly. Like shipping, those repairs, inspections and buyer fees and conditions for title transfer to make this type of sale, so net result of unknown savings and possible anguish Vs an average fair deal at a dealer or private seller I can reach and negotiate with less trouble.

If this was closer to me and I somehow had more confidence, it may not be so complicated. Does any of this make sense?

S_W222

There is no way you can get that car on C&B or even private sale for less than what the seller would get from selling it to a dealer, so that shouldn't be a factor anyway in your math. What you are guaranteed to get from auctions like these on C&B as a better price 100% than what dealers would have asked, while at the same time the seller would also get better price than trade in offer. Both parties win in this case, which is fair, if and when the car sell in such auctions. I don't see any risk whatsoever (I'd be more concerned about buying a car from a dealer without lemon squad inspection than buying a car like that from a private seller with low miles with lemon squad. Am not trying to convince you at all, but am just discussing the concept of buying a car like that in general (not for your specific case). U buy a car from an auction, all u need then is to schedule a pick up (seller will leave the signed title in glove box, or his financing bank will mail the title for you, the minute all of you sign a bill of sale via emails). If u can find a fair deal at a nearby dealer, I would go for it, but am certain it would not be a better deal than auctions in most cases. just my personal opinion. Am biased because of how many times I bought cars out of state in that past with 100% success rate each time when I do enough diligence, before I got screwed now switching to mostly buying brand-new (Just because am hopping to start keeping my cars longer than before).

carlosinseattle

I agree with everything your thinking in this post. I'll share a super brief synopsis of my experience from when I decided I wanted a W222 in early 2022 and eventually bought my current car in Sep of 2023.
Big problem; there were only 3 W222's available locally, I drove them all. Wish I had spent more time in the cars versus on the web.
Found a 2017 CPO in Oregon, drove down and bought it. AWD was my one non-negotiable option that I absolutely had to have. Car was beautiful, higher mileage, mid level options. Was not familiar with all option codes; it had heated and ventilated seats all around, but did NOT include warmth and comfort package. Pissed! My fault.
While owning it I realized there were other options I wish I had, plus there were certain upgrades on the W222 V2 (facelifted) that I wanted.
Began shopping for V2 W222, quickly learned that that it was FAR more difficult to find one highly optioned. I can't overstate enough about how frustrating it was. Highly optiioned V2 W222's are super hard to find, but V1's are fairly typical. Far easier to find a 2014-2017 highly optioned W222 than 2018-2020. Just a head's up if finding a highly optioned car is important to you.
Found one super nice and highly optioned V2 W222 from a forum member. Nice guy who I also trusted 100%. Price was fair for how much you got. Same color as my 17 W22, but with 19" wheels, which I knew was going to cost me $3K plus to upgrade to what I liked. Also, I could get much better financing if I used a dealer instead of private party, and I wanted to use a business loan to aid in credit history for new business. For those reasons, I decided to go in a different direction.
Decided to begin shopping for an S63 because most of them came with a lot more options. Some of what's optional on an S560 is standard in an S63.
Found and bought a 2018 S63. Paid more than what I had started out to pay, and even more than that super nice S560, but options were more important than interior or exterior color for me. Also LOVE driving it.

Point is, once you decide what's important you'll know what excites you and what doesn't. That applies to the car, options, mileage, condition, color, ease of transaction, etc.

Lou B

Another version of an oft-told tale. In the short time I've been here, I, who have never bought a used Mercedes, have had my horizons broadened considerably from these related search and acquisition stories.
Of course, one reason for that is that I am a confirmed low-tech fan, unneeding of many options. Beyond the basic Cruise Control, distancing, navigation, and telephone hookups, I just don't need stuff.
MBC would be highly desirable, but I don't think it's offered anymore, and is rare on the ground of pre-owned S class units.
I am limited color-wise, avoiding any and all black, silver, gold, and white in all flavors. I like color - blues, reds, greens. Should I move from my '18 Emerald Green Metallic, I think I'd like to have a Rubellite Red Metallic. It has a very solid appeal for me. I would want an interior that went with the exterior, preferably one that did not have light color leather on the surfaces that one touches most often.

SW20S

My concern would be reliability of 21 and 22 W223s...I would stick with a W222 over a 21 or 22 W223.

carlosinseattle

2021-2022 cars were Covid year cars, most of them have standard equipment deletes of some sort. And you can read in the W223 secion of the forum for how many are plagued with problems, with almost no problems with 23-24 model year cars. New model launched at the absolute worst time.

S_W222

I agree with the general approach of avoiding covid built cars for any brand, sure yes, but I disagree that there is any evidence that Mbenz made any major changes or changed part numbers in recent years for 23’ and 24’ compared to 21’ and 22’. My guess is that they were great cars, and are still built the same exact way with the same parts, and that recent software updates have fixed some issues but the underlying causes for bigger problems that could strand people are yet to be uncovered. Mbenz hasn’t been able to even fix those cars yet today, even with new parts. Both (21/22 or 23/24) are still great cars though that I’d certainly buy, and I mean both are just as great and neither is proven to be greater yet.
It’s not really true that there are no threads with problems for 2023 model year (there is actually multiple ones, some are major, on this forum and others). A quick search will also still show an abnormal number of lemon 2023 model years (that’s the one that matters the most), so that trend hasn’t changed a bit for 2023 compared to 21’ and 22’ either on trend or availability of lemon cars on the market. It is pretty easy to find a lemon 21’ and 22’ W222 (and just as easy for 2023 too despite being newer with fewer on the road). The worst among all is EQS (a ton of lemon ones). 2024’ W223 is still too new that we can’t even draw any conclusions that are statistically valid (I think we only have a just few forum users with 24’s anyway). No doubts though that recent software updates have addressed some glitches (but equally for all model years obviously). I repeat, it’s a great car that I’d buy if I decide that I want one, but it’s hard to find any evidences that it has gotten greater recently (trend shows the opposite at least up until 23’)

S_W222

I don’t know. For 10K difference (if that’s really the difference), as a risk taker, I’d rather drive a 21’ W223 than a 2020 W222. Maybe it’s just me after owning two W222s already. At least the 21’ by now should have a reasonable maintenance and repair history (it’s usually within the first year or 10K miles from what am reading on the W223 forum when major issues occur, not at 30 or 40K miles, or 2-3 years).

SW20S

Seeing that basically the issues you see are electronic, a lot of the improvements are electrical and software based. There are a few people in the 223 group who have had early ones that were lemoned or bought back and now have new ones they are very happy with.

I agree the 223 is a better car but man it’s so miserable to have a problematic car…

MrMischief

A-men to that!

MrMischief

Oh, let me say for the record, I would jump on a W223 2021 if I could find one that didn’t worry me it will be problematic, fairly optioned for me meaning a few “must haves” like 4Matic, Premium package, W&C and premium sound at the least. If I found one by this winter for No more than $65,000 out the door (without extended warranty- I’ll buy that on my own), that would make me happy!

*Note: I did go back the car auction with the intent to bid, but it doesn’t have 4Matic which is my first “must have.” So this car is out.

MrMischief

It’s funny, the other day I searched to see what it would cost to transport the auction car from WI to PA. I thought I was asking one company or broker, nope. More than a dozen texts competing the first one was $1900, then they all went down - now this morning it’s only $500.

My searches for a 2021 are starting at the low 70’s (for something with High miles, accidents reported on Carfax and or very low optioned) but most are low to high $80 some thousand. When I started looking I was at $45,000, I since raised it to $65,000 and I would like to hold that line now.


Rich

carlosinseattle

I went through the same thing with auto transport companies last year, and a few years ago, when buying out of state. Frustratign to get all the call emails and text messages. It turrned me off.

My guess is that you'll wind up in a W223. The availibility of highly optioned 2018-2020 cars was/is frustratingly small. It seems like people who get highly optioned cars hold on to their cars much longer. And/or very few highly optioned cars were ordered in the first place. When you think about the cost of those options, it's easy to see why. The longer you take to find one, the more prices will fall based on depreciation. If you don't buy for 6 months or more I bet a nice W223 will be within your budget.

Lou B

I have recently experienced a few stray thoughts creeping into my brain, over the long-established barriers there, about looking for a replacement for my '18 S560 - 33,000 + miles.
I seem to differ from a great many thoughts I've seen here, vis-a-vis options. I don't want a highly optioned car because I won't take advantage of most of those things.
I would wait until a facelift W223 is available. I think searching for what would appeal to me, color, and limited options, could very well be hard to find, in a pre-owned unit, leaving me the option of ordering a new unit .
When I looked through the '24 order guide, I kept seeing MB's efforts to push one into getting expensive packages. This happened to me on my '18 and made me unhappy. The only remedy I can see is sitting down with our dealer's Sales Mgr and going through every item and examining the dollars impact of choosing what I want and what I don't want to pay for. Then, I'd guess I would send a copy of that wish list to the nearer dealers for bids. I'd most likely be reaching from east Tennessee, where my son is well acquainted with those dealers, to Columbus, OH, maybe Huntington WV and as far west as Indianapolis and, of course, within KY.

SW20S

If you’re flexible to a certain degree you can find a car on the ground that meets your needs. Cars.com and cargurus.com show new inventory all over the country and that’s what I used, then you can tell your dealer where they can go get the car you want.

Lou B

Very much appreciate your links and your support and interest.

"My Car" is not yet available - I don't want anything earlier than a W223 S Class facelift - guessing they basically won't be on the used car market for at least 6 months? 8-9 months? A year? And, most likely then in the color I want - Rubellite Red Metallic. or the other dark red color? - they would be over-optioned for my needs and taste.
The alternative is to wait until they are available to order and then talk to dealers.
A quick check now using filters pre-owned and new 2024 S Class did not turn up any units anywhere in inventory.

S_W222

Right, and also "https://www.autotempest.com/" does VERY well in terms of capturing cars from multiple websites better than any other website (even including social media). I would also keep an eye on AutoTrader (at least for the privately owned cars, though people there seem to be asking for premium money or hunting for an uninformed desperate buyer). I have seen car posted for well over 1 full year for the same price when market is already dropping 3-5% per month for most cars in the 50-150K range !!! One of them was (and still) a 2021 7-series M760 fully loaded 180K MSRP (i've have been, and still, hunting for a loaded one for 3 years now but I only want certain colors and options), and I would buy that car tomorrow if he was serious.. but he can keep dreaming of getting 105K for it. Nothing showed up that matches what I need for 2 years now. I kept searching for 10 months until I found my 2nd W222 fully loaded. I don't mind waiting years for a V12 M760 but only if it checks every single box on my list. I'll probably pass next year on this plan as the car is becoming very outdated and am loosing interest. It was a car I thought I'd buy and keep for decades anyway so time doesn't matter but it's becoming hard to find well maintained and relatively new one now as the car ages....