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Had a little trouble decoding the drivetrain info a few posts back ...
For USA, the regular, non-AMG offerings have three engine choices, a 3.0 liter in-line six (S450) and two V-8s (S500, S580)? All bi-turbo and mild hybrid? Are both V8s coming to USA or just the 580? And there's a S580+ plug-in hybrid.
I know the inline six is a brand new design, are the V8s too, or are they a carryover from W222 designs?
I think the 500 will be a six. The only non AMG V8 will be the 580.
I think the 500 will be a six. The only non AMG V8 will be the 580.
The Maybach will also be a non-AMG V8. But what you are getting at is that there won't be a lower end V8 than the 580 (which was also the case with the on the W222 with the 560 being the entry V8).
S450 (V-6) has become S500 (I-6)
S560 (V-8) has become S580 (V-8)
S560e (V6 Plug-in) becomes S580e (I6 plug-in)
S63 (V-8) will remain S63 (V-8)
S65 (V-12) will become S73 (V-8 Plug-in)
So the only model adopting fewer cylinders is the S65 replacement.
Last edited by stealth.pilot; 09-06-2020 at 11:48 PM.
Had a little trouble decoding the drivetrain info a few posts back ...
For USA, the regular, non-AMG offerings have three engine choices, a 3.0 liter in-line six (S450) and two V-8s (S500, S580)? All bi-turbo and mild hybrid? Are both V8s coming to USA or just the 580? And there's a S580+ plug-in hybrid.
I know the inline six is a brand new design, are the V8s too, or are they a carryover from W222 designs?
The V8s are new too. In fact all the engines are new to the S-class although maybe have been installed previously in other mercedes models.
S450 i adopting an 3.0 I6 with mild-hybrid tech
S580 is an updated 4.0 V8 with mild-hybrid tech (the 560 had no electrification)
S580e - also all new though following the same general concept as the 560e
S63 will have an updated 4.0V8 with mild-hybrid tech
S73 will be a plug-in AMG V8 similar to the AMG GT73
The Maybach will also be a non-AMG V8. But what you are getting at is that there won't be a lower end V8 than the 580 (which was also the case with the on the W222 with the 560 being the entry V8).
S450 (V-6) has become S500 (I-6)
S560 (V-8) has become S580 (V-8)
S560e (V6 Plug-in) becomes S580e (V6 plug-in)
S63 (V-8) will remain S63 (V-8)
S65 (V-12) will become S73 (V-8 Plug-in)
So the only model adopting fewer cylinders is the S65 replacement.
S580e will be an I6 as well, not V6, assuming that was just a typo in your post.
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
Imo, and this is speculative, people may be overestimating how much they would need/want to touch the big screen while driving, and underestimating how much might be accomplished with the steering wheel controls.
In the pic below, notice that to both left and right, at the upper parts of the spokes, there seems to be a 5-way controller...presumably enabling movement of a cursor up/down/left/right, with a press on the central "OK" being equivalent to "enter" or a mouse left-click.
In my 2016 Tesla, instead of 5-way controllers to left and right, there are 3-way controllers (a scroll wheel that enables up/down and, with a press, "enter"). The right side one enables the selection of various functions that can be controlled in this way...we leave it on "temperature" control, and can then simply use the right steering wheel scrollwheel to adjust the temperature. So, we can change the temp even more easily than we can in our W222. Of course, less often used functions, such as fan speed, or switching from outside air to recirc, won't necessarily be accessible from the steering wheel. But again, my bet is that people will find themselves touching the central screen less when driving than they might now be expecting. Combined with presumably better automatic accident-avoidance features in the W223 than W222, overall there might be greater safety in a W223, despite the touchscreen that some people here are complaining about.
2014 E350 Coupe (previous), 2016 C450 AMG Sport (previous), 2020 GLE450 (previous), 2021 S580 (now)
Originally Posted by syswei
Imo, and this is speculative, people may be overestimating how much they would need/want to touch the big screen while driving, and underestimating how much might be accomplished with the steering wheel controls.
In the pic below, notice that to both left and right, at the upper parts of the spokes, there seems to be a 5-way controller...presumably enabling movement of a cursor up/down/left/right, with a press on the central "OK" being equivalent to "enter" or a mouse left-click.
In my 2016 Tesla, instead of 5-way controllers to left and right, there are 3-way controllers (a scroll wheel that enables up/down and, with a press, "enter"). The right side one enables the selection of various functions that can be controlled in this way...we leave it on "temperature" control, and can then simply use the right steering wheel scrollwheel to adjust the temperature. So, we can change the temp even more easily than we can in our W222. Of course, less often used functions, such as fan speed, or switching from outside air to recirc, won't necessarily be accessible from the steering wheel. But again, my bet is that people will find themselves touching the central screen less when driving than they might now be expecting. Combined with presumably better automatic accident-avoidance features in the W223 than W222, overall there might be greater safety in a W223, despite the touchscreen that some people here are complaining about.
People who aren't familiar with using the new MBUX system (or don't currently have it) seem to also forget that almost any function in the car can be controlled via Voice Control now. You will not even need to take your hand off the wheel or touch any buttons to accomplish nearly any task. For those only familiar with the limited COMAND voice control features, this will be a whole new world. No need to even give robotic voice commands, as you can talk like a normal human being and the processing of these voice commands happens very fast (likely even faster with the improved MBUX in the new S-Class).
Some examples of things you can do:
"Hey Mercdedes"...
- I'm cold/hot. (rasies/lowers temp by 2 degrees)
- Set temperature to 69 degrees.
- Set fan speed to level 5.
- Turn on my heated/ventilated/massage seat.
- Open the sunroof. (opens/closes sunroof shade)
- Open navigation. (to switch the nav/map view)
- Take me to Dunkin Donuts (pulls up all closest locations just as your phone would)
- Put on Howard Stern. (no need to even say specific channel numbers, MBUX can recognize station names)
- Change the ambient lights to blue.
There is so much than can be done easily with voice controls. The voice control might not be everyone's preferred method of interacting with the car, just like some people won't prefer to use the touch screen. But that's why MB gives you these options (steering wheel controls, voice control, touch screen, touch pad, etc), so that you can pick and choose what the best and easiest ways to interact with the car would be in various situations. To imply that people will need to rely on the new touch screen for everything is just completely false.
But that's why MB gives you these options (steering wheel controls, voice control, touch screen, touch pad, etc), so that you can pick and choose what the best and easiest ways to interact with the car would be in various situations.
The easiest way to interact is buttons but they forgot to include those.
2014 E350 Coupe (previous), 2016 C450 AMG Sport (previous), 2020 GLE450 (previous), 2021 S580 (now)
Originally Posted by darlop
The easiest way to interact is buttons but they forgot to include those.
Yes. Taking a hand off the wheel while driving, looking down, and jacking a temperature button up or down 5 times is definitely easier and safer than saying "Set temperature to 69 degrees".
Do you wish your iPhone had a lot more buttons, too?
The V8s are new too. In fact all the engines are new to the S-class although maybe have been installed previously in other mercedes models.
S450 i adopting an 3.0 I6 with mild-hybrid tech
S580 is an updated 4.0 V8 with mild-hybrid tech (the 560 had no electrification)
S580e - also all new though following the same general concept as the 560e
S63 will have an updated 4.0V8 with mild-hybrid tech
S73 will be a plug-in AMG V8 similar to the AMG GT73
In the USA.
The mild-hybrid inline 6 and the mild hybrid V8 have been standard in European W222 models for the past two years so they have undergone real world testing. More parts = more potential headache. All I ask for is nice smooth effortless power delivery. I guess the mild-hybrid does allow for the 48V system which is required for some of the new tech. And I believe it removes the need for a serpentine belt.
Yes. Taking a hand off the wheel while driving, looking down, and jacking a temperature button up or down 5 times is definitely easier and safer than saying "Set temperature to 69 degrees".
Do you wish your iPhone had a lot more buttons, too?
So using a touchpad and touchscreen is safe?
I don't need to look down to press a button. Important things like temp control and volume have special textured buttons because the people who design these things have a century worth of experience with driver interaction. There is a reason why cars have dials and knobs and why even a digital speedometer uses a needle display rather than digits. Car makers have run out of ideas so now they are loading us up with touchscreens and telling us its better. I've yet to hear any explanation for why getting rid of buttons is a good thing. Airplanes don't have touchscreens. Race cars don't have touchscreens.
BTW using voice is a lot more involved than your oversimplified example. Its more like saying "hey mercedes" then waiting for a response, then saying "set the temp to 69 degrees", then waiting for it to think, then hearing "ok ive set the temp". And of course thats assuming it had no trouble recognizing your command the first time. And during all this time you are driving distracted even if your eyes are on the road and your hands are on the wheel.
It seems many here are simply accustomed to touch....which is what we've had many years. After you spend a few thousand miles with the car, does it not become second nature to 'use' the car? As in, knowing where your finger is going....where you need to look to do so.....etc....
We simply need to retrain our brain Things are gonna be just fine
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
The Lucid Air was introduced today, and I thought worth mentioning here because the central touchscreen is actually retractable...see the video in this article. W223's screen is larger though, so making it retractable would have been harder to pull off.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
When thinking about the SAFETY of yourself, your family and your loved ones, would you choose to drive a vehicle produced by a 120 year old company known for exceptional engineering, elaborate safety systems and bullet proof build quality, or a first year vehicle produced by the equivalent of a Silicon Valley tech start up company? Hell, I’d rather drive a Toyota! Lucid Air indeed. Give me a break!
Last edited by Streamliner; 09-09-2020 at 10:43 PM.
The Lucid Air was introduced today, and I thought worth mentioning here because the central touchscreen is actually retractable...see the video in this article. W223's screen is larger though, so making it retractable would have been harder to pull off.
i’m really excited for this car, ever since Car and Driver did a prototype highway drive and got 458 miles out of the battery. And after the reveal today it looks awesome. I truly hope they do well.
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
Originally Posted by Streamliner
When thinking about the SAFETY of yourself, your family and your loved ones, would you choose to drive a vehicle produced by a 120 year old company known for exceptional engineering, elaborate safety systems and bullet proof build quality, or a first year vehicle produced by the equivalent of a Silicon Valley tech start up company? Hell, I’d rather drive a Toyota! Lucid Air indeed. Give me a break!
I didn't post it because I was trying to push the car on anyone; rather I was trying to point out that MB might have taken a different approach with its touchscreen. I likely wouldn't buy a Lucid myself. Leading candidate to replace my S550 is going to be the EQS. Second-likliest might be an S580e.
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
Originally Posted by js_cls
i’m really excited for this car, ever since Car and Driver did a prototype highway drive and got 458 miles out of the battery. And after the reveal today it looks awesome. I truly hope they do well.
I also hope they do well. Competition is good for the buying public.
The Lucid Air was introduced today, and I thought worth mentioning here because the central touchscreen is actually retractable...see the video in this article. W223's screen is larger though, so making it retractable would have been harder to pull off.
Lucid looks like a really, really attractive package, superior performance to anything on the market (including Tesla S100D with Ludicrous) and addressing the latter interior design and fit and finish.
Interesting fact is that this fully electric car has more physical, analog controls/switches/buttons then the new S-Class.
Since I put a deposit a long time ago (as curiosity) I can get one of the first batch cars, Dream edition, I will buy it to see if I can live with it.
When you try to refuel your car in Chicago Winter, wind chill approaching negative 40-50F, standing outside and feeling the cold freezing your ********* to ice is no fun at all.
I'm really hoping I will like that car a lot, since it would address most of my issues and concern regarding electric cars.
I don't make road trips, maybe once in 3 years so the range is not that important (although 500 miles is not too shabby and beats any performance sedan).
09-06-2020, 08:46 AM
