2023 Genesis G90 MT Car Of The Year!
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From: Corona Del Mar, CA
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
Like reading this thread comparing Premium Sedans...makes me feel like I'm back in Prep School absorbing knowledge from the Headmaster about the Classics.
Mind can't maintain focus however in the Southwest where gotta drive 250-miles East for tasty fried catfish and 230-miles North for decent Bahn Mi sandwiches. Miss my Vietnamese coworkers from Westminster, CA. Time for a 3-hour road trip soon especially if UGA beats TCU tomorrow night at SoFi...
How does the 2019 Jaguar XJL Collection compare to these current land yachts (or W222) with its Supercharged V8 and controversial Tata Design?
Old roommate now in DC by Navy Yards bought one new for $68K a few years ago...nearly $30K off MSRP. He drives a 2023 M850i convertible now.
Mind can't maintain focus however in the Southwest where gotta drive 250-miles East for tasty fried catfish and 230-miles North for decent Bahn Mi sandwiches. Miss my Vietnamese coworkers from Westminster, CA. Time for a 3-hour road trip soon especially if UGA beats TCU tomorrow night at SoFi...
How does the 2019 Jaguar XJL Collection compare to these current land yachts (or W222) with its Supercharged V8 and controversial Tata Design?
Old roommate now in DC by Navy Yards bought one new for $68K a few years ago...nearly $30K off MSRP. He drives a 2023 M850i convertible now.
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From: Florida
Like reading this thread comparing Premium Sedans...makes me feel like I'm back in Prep School absorbing knowledge from the Headmaster about the Classics.
Mind can't maintain focus however in the Southwest where gotta drive 250-miles East for tasty fried catfish and 230-miles North for decent Bahn Mi sandwiches. Miss my Vietnamese coworkers from Westminster, CA. Time for a 3-hour road trip soon especially if UGA beats TCU tomorrow night at SoFi...
How does the 2019 Jaguar XJL Collection compare to these current land yachts (or W222) with its Supercharged V8 and controversial Tata Design?
Old roommate now in DC by Navy Yards bought one new for $68K a few years ago...nearly $30K off MSRP. He drives a 2023 M850i convertible now.
Mind can't maintain focus however in the Southwest where gotta drive 250-miles East for tasty fried catfish and 230-miles North for decent Bahn Mi sandwiches. Miss my Vietnamese coworkers from Westminster, CA. Time for a 3-hour road trip soon especially if UGA beats TCU tomorrow night at SoFi...
How does the 2019 Jaguar XJL Collection compare to these current land yachts (or W222) with its Supercharged V8 and controversial Tata Design?
Old roommate now in DC by Navy Yards bought one new for $68K a few years ago...nearly $30K off MSRP. He drives a 2023 M850i convertible now.
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23 S580 Executive
I had an F-Type R some cars ago. I liked it; comfortable in the daily, fun when you want to have fun. Some downsides to it: You're not getting much in the back; probably less than most imagine when looking at the car from the outside. It was loud enough it occasionally set off car alarms in an underground garage. You get a lot more kids wanting to race than you do in a 911, roughly similar to being in a Corvette in that regard. Quality is down a little bit from the higher end German stuff. One interesting thing about it neither good or bad: People talk about some cars being chick magnets, haven't really experienced that, mine have mostly been man magnets or not a magnet at all. This was the exception; the F-Type, you're going to get a few of the ladies swooning.
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2024 S580
I think most consumers will equate material quality to build quality, and as a W222 owner I believe the build quality of the BMW 7 Series is absolutely superior. Materials are better, the interior build is more solid, the paint finish is better, exterior is trimmed out better, etc.
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From: South by Southwest
2021 AMG E63s Wagon
^^^
Roommate had Jags since droptop '95 XJS inline 6. Had a XF SC with a cantankerous Minsa Exhaust and drove his 2007 XKR droptop until it died recently just after moving into his new Condo last year. He had to sell the XJL Collection to Carmax for $66K because Condo had limited underground parking and chose the droptop as his sole retirement daily driver. He had good luck with the Jags since parts were available on Rock Auto and had a Jamaican Independent Mechanic with a day job at BMW dealer where he picked up his new M850i. I never had the opportunity to drive his Collection which was limited to 300 in its last year of production...
If I was in the market for a premium land yacht would lease this 2023 G90 and keep a beater as a spare. Have two friends in SoCal and Florida who've had issues with Genesis over the lack of availability of parts during warranty. At least the AMG Wagon was back on the road after ABQ dealer obtained the correct replacement parts after 2-months and GLC300 brand new loaner car blues. MBUSA also compensated me $5K for my inconvenience and missed planned road trip to the East Coast.
Roommate had Jags since droptop '95 XJS inline 6. Had a XF SC with a cantankerous Minsa Exhaust and drove his 2007 XKR droptop until it died recently just after moving into his new Condo last year. He had to sell the XJL Collection to Carmax for $66K because Condo had limited underground parking and chose the droptop as his sole retirement daily driver. He had good luck with the Jags since parts were available on Rock Auto and had a Jamaican Independent Mechanic with a day job at BMW dealer where he picked up his new M850i. I never had the opportunity to drive his Collection which was limited to 300 in its last year of production...
If I was in the market for a premium land yacht would lease this 2023 G90 and keep a beater as a spare. Have two friends in SoCal and Florida who've had issues with Genesis over the lack of availability of parts during warranty. At least the AMG Wagon was back on the road after ABQ dealer obtained the correct replacement parts after 2-months and GLC300 brand new loaner car blues. MBUSA also compensated me $5K for my inconvenience and missed planned road trip to the East Coast.
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From: Birmingham, AL
2019 S560, 2022 Audi S8
The thing about the new BMW 7 series front end that I don't like is the separation of the two headlight clusters. I wish it had been one solid fixture. The rest of the entire car looks fine to me, inside and out.
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2021 S450 4Matic
Now that the upper DRL is separated from the lower main headlight, I imagine there will be a lot of fiddling around in the future.
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AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
I think most consumers will equate material quality to build quality, and as a W222 owner I believe the build quality of the BMW 7 Series is absolutely superior. Materials are better, the interior build is more solid, the paint finish is better, exterior is trimmed out better, etc.
MB usually uses base trim levels at list while others throw upgrades into the base price to make them sellable or add bragging rights. Our W222 was definitely of much better quality than the G12 7 Series at the time, including the quality of the trim and nappa leather so I disagree here. But we had to add the exclusive Nappa options to give it the level of luxury the car deserved.
Love BMW interiors though and our M8 was definitely on par/above MB but that's a BMW individual interior option. BMW is definitely nicer on the inside on the SUV side of things... As to paint finish, BMW paint sucks. Very delicate and subject to easy chipping. MB paints are much harder.
Last edited by Wolfman; Jan 10, 2023 at 01:44 PM.
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23 S580 Executive
To me they both appear similar in quality, a little better here or there, but similar. Both are dependent upon the car and the trim level in terms of eye appeal.
I'd say in this regard that the S-Class needs much more personalized buying opportunities in the form of more option choices. Except in one thing; the exclusive leather should be the entry point. It isn't terrible without it but I'd liken it to the Panamera without the leather upgrade; underwhelming at the price point.
If anything, in my mind it may be a little worse here because luxury is one of this car's primary missions. Leather seating, nasty piano black trim, and fake leather surfaces are what I expect at half the price. IMO the upgrade should be the Manufaktor and the exclusive should be the default interior. I get why they do it but I don't have to like it.
I'd say in this regard that the S-Class needs much more personalized buying opportunities in the form of more option choices. Except in one thing; the exclusive leather should be the entry point. It isn't terrible without it but I'd liken it to the Panamera without the leather upgrade; underwhelming at the price point.
If anything, in my mind it may be a little worse here because luxury is one of this car's primary missions. Leather seating, nasty piano black trim, and fake leather surfaces are what I expect at half the price. IMO the upgrade should be the Manufaktor and the exclusive should be the default interior. I get why they do it but I don't have to like it.
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From: Maryland
2024 S580
So then the S-Class is the bottom of the ladder by your definition? Interesting logic.
MB usually uses base trim levels at list while others throw upgrades into the base price to make them sellable or add bragging rights. Our W222 was definitely of much better quality than the G12 7 Series at the time, including the quality of the trim and nappa leather so I disagree here. But we had to add the exclusive Nappa options to give it the level of luxury the car deserved.
Love BMW interiors though and our M8 was definitely on par/above MB but that's a BMW individual interior option. BMW is definitely nicer on the inside on the SUV side of things... As to paint finish, BMW paint sucks. Very delicate and subject to easy chipping. MB paints are much harder.
MB usually uses base trim levels at list while others throw upgrades into the base price to make them sellable or add bragging rights. Our W222 was definitely of much better quality than the G12 7 Series at the time, including the quality of the trim and nappa leather so I disagree here. But we had to add the exclusive Nappa options to give it the level of luxury the car deserved.
Love BMW interiors though and our M8 was definitely on par/above MB but that's a BMW individual interior option. BMW is definitely nicer on the inside on the SUV side of things... As to paint finish, BMW paint sucks. Very delicate and subject to easy chipping. MB paints are much harder.
I can't speak to chipping as I have not had a BMW, but when it comes to the appearance of the paint when new the BMW is way better. I do a full clear bra on all my cars so chipping isn't an issue for me.
As for the interior, fit and build is more solid in the 7, there aren't any creaks or give when pushing on any of the materials and trim where you get that in the S Class.
Obviously I prefer the S Class overall because thats what I got, but I have to call a spade a spade.
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From: Illinois
S560/SL550/LS460/Q70L 5.6 AWD
"LS460L was finished much nicer, the S Class has way more orange peel, panel gaps aren't anywhere near as consistent, trim doesn't fit as well, the metal edges aren't all hidden with trim and cladding like they were on the Lexus. Paint on the Lexus was an order of magnitude better"
I have two LS 460, a '15 with 12,000 miles and a '16 with 30, 000 miles sitting in my garage along with a 2018 S560 with 13,000 miles and you're absolutely right ! Besides that I have a couple of rattles in the MB that should not be there....My, now departed 2007, CL600 was way different....
I have two LS 460, a '15 with 12,000 miles and a '16 with 30, 000 miles sitting in my garage along with a 2018 S560 with 13,000 miles and you're absolutely right ! Besides that I have a couple of rattles in the MB that should not be there....My, now departed 2007, CL600 was way different....
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AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
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Which is why I suspect that some folks end up with the S Class despite their perception of deficiencies in other areas.
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From: Maryland
2024 S580
This is all 100% accurate, but that doesn't change anything we said about paint quality, build quality, etc. The S Class has a better chassis, more refined drivetrain, much better power, much better tech, better road noise isolation (but not wind noise), better driver comfort overall, better handling without a ride penalty, but the Lexus fit and finish is better. I suspect the G90 will be superior to the S Class in that area as well.
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This is all 100% accurate, but that doesn't change anything we said about paint quality, build quality, etc. The S Class has a better chassis, more refined drivetrain, much better power, much better tech, better road noise isolation (but not wind noise), better driver comfort overall, better handling without a ride penalty, but the Lexus fit and finish is better. I suspect the G90 will be superior to the S Class in that area as well.
Paint hardness on the other hand is relevant to me as I wouldn’t consider a bra due to the lines (unless full panel ppf).
As for the fit and finish, I would have to visit a Lexus dealer again. I have never considered a Lexus superior in anything other than reliability…
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2024 S580
Paint finish to me on a luxury vehicle is really important. I think you just haven't spent any time with Lexus vehicles. I had 7 Lexus vehicles including 4 LSs. Mercedes is better in a lot of ways, but Lexus is better in many ways as well. Fit and finish, paint quality, some details Lexus is better at, ML audio absolutely blows away the Burmester.
Would I go back to Lexus? Not currently because they don't make a car that is comparable to the S Class. If they did would I go back? Probably. So, like I said this G90 may very well be superior in some ways.
Would I go back to Lexus? Not currently because they don't make a car that is comparable to the S Class. If they did would I go back? Probably. So, like I said this G90 may very well be superior in some ways.
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Mercedes, Porsche, BMW, Tesla
I would say when it comes to paint finish and exterior build, the S Class (W222 at least anyways) is the bottom of the segment honestly. its not that its bad, but my LS460L was finished much nicer, the S Class has way more orange peel, panel gaps aren't anywhere near as consistent, trim doesn't fit as well, the metal edges aren't all hidden with trim and cladding like they were on the Lexus. Paint on the Lexus was an order of magnitude better. In my extensive searching before I bought the car I found the 7 Series and the A8 also significantly better in those areas.
I can't speak to chipping as I have not had a BMW, but when it comes to the appearance of the paint when new the BMW is way better. I do a full clear bra on all my cars so chipping isn't an issue for me.
As for the interior, fit and build is more solid in the 7, there aren't any creaks or give when pushing on any of the materials and trim where you get that in the S Class.
Obviously I prefer the S Class overall because thats what I got, but I have to call a spade a spade.
I can't speak to chipping as I have not had a BMW, but when it comes to the appearance of the paint when new the BMW is way better. I do a full clear bra on all my cars so chipping isn't an issue for me.
As for the interior, fit and build is more solid in the 7, there aren't any creaks or give when pushing on any of the materials and trim where you get that in the S Class.
Obviously I prefer the S Class overall because thats what I got, but I have to call a spade a spade.
And I do agree, our S-Classes have had areas of the interior that you could press on and hear creaks. BMW is much more solid in this regard. Agree about the paint finish and overall finishings being better with Lexus than the S-Class, but I think this is only an LS thing. I don't think they sand and polish the other models like they do the LS at the factory.
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2024 S580
Thank you for sharing your honest and unbiased thoughts and opinions. I'm glad you can call it like it is, even though it's your own personal vehicle. Props.
And I do agree, our S-Classes have had areas of the interior that you could press on and hear creaks. BMW is much more solid in this regard. Agree about the paint finish and overall finishings being better with Lexus than the S-Class, but I think this is only an LS thing. I don't think they sand and polish the other models like they do the LS at the factory.
And I do agree, our S-Classes have had areas of the interior that you could press on and hear creaks. BMW is much more solid in this regard. Agree about the paint finish and overall finishings being better with Lexus than the S-Class, but I think this is only an LS thing. I don't think they sand and polish the other models like they do the LS at the factory.
The paint finish is much better on the LS than the other models, yes. Lexus hand sands the paint on the LS (and LX and LC), but not on the lesser models. I have had the ES, GS and LS and the paint was much better on the LS, although its still nice on the cheaper cars and the other exterior build and trim differences still exist.
Without a doubt though the paint on my 4 LSs are the best paint finishes I've ever had on a car
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23 S580 Executive
Mrs Crab has pretty much been through the lineup as she searches for the middle bear and while I seldom get in her cars I can say for sure they're the least problematic brand we've had. She also likes the dealership experience; non-threatening, no mansplaining, so woman friendly. Also a girl that will make you a cappacino while you wait for your loaner, a spacious room for you to wait in, etc.The cars aren't my cup of tea but she likes the overall ownership experience and that shouldn't be discounted with Lexus; that part of the product is finding some happy owners.
I bring it up because they (Genesis) could use the upgrade; the Hyundai dealerships are not so special around here. I know they're working on it but that doesn't do much for you today.
I bring it up because they (Genesis) could use the upgrade; the Hyundai dealerships are not so special around here. I know they're working on it but that doesn't do much for you today.
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From: Illinois
S560/SL550/LS460/Q70L 5.6 AWD
I live between two Mercedes dealerships, one is way bellow any expectations the other one is ok, the Lexus one is above both of them....price wise is like you said, the "not so good one" is extremely expensive, the "good" one is so and so but the Lexus one is well bellow these....
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2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
With MB, if you have an issue that did not “throw a code,” at the dealership, a big, tall, blonde guy in a white shop coat comes out to talk to you. He says “Vee fine nossing vrong mit dis very fine Medcedes, YOU mus be doing somsing vrong!” If you question this, even a tad, the blonde guy nods to the two big guys who have appeared out of nowhere and are now standing behind you. They are wearing full length, black, leather trench coats. The blonde guy says “take him, take him” and you are disappeared into the MBUSA never-never land, never to be heard from again.
With Lexus, if you complain about a sound that is about as loud as a butterfly flapping it’s wings, the service advisor will bow to you and say “We are so very sorry to have disappointed you. Your salesman will be committing Hara Kiri shortly. We are sending your car by 747 airfreight, back to Japan, where it will be completely disassembled and each part will be blueprinted. In the meantime, here are the keys to a brand new LS for you to drive, until your car is ready. Is there anything else we can do for you?” He bows three more times and invites you to have a cappuccino, hand made by a Geisha Girl in the guest lounge and she asks if there is ANYTHING else she can do for you.
I realize that I have gone overboard here, but honestly, my service experiences with Lexus and MB have been somewhat proportional to my pageant noted above.
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2021 S450 4Matic
...He bows three more times and invites you to have a cappuccino, hand made by a Geisha Girl in the guest lounge and she asks if there is ANYTHING else she can do for you.
I realize that I have gone overboard here, but honestly, my service experiences with Lexus and MB have been somewhat proportional to my pageant noted above.
I realize that I have gone overboard here, but honestly, my service experiences with Lexus and MB have been somewhat proportional to my pageant noted above.
This is from the gourmet point of perspective.😋
