RJC

I'm that way with everything I/we own, why not keep things looking/working as new as long as possible. And yes, before someone says I don't drive/use them as intended, I do indeed - just enjoy keeping everything in pristine condition.

crabman

As it's been an ongoing part of this discussion, here is Motoman's take on EV adaption. He covers a lot of ground in this one, and while that meandering will cover some topics that are less interesting, his views have some weight as he has strong contacts in the industry. In other words, these are the opinions of a man who really does know and talk to some of the people making the decisions defining what we'll be driving tomorrow.

SW20S

I'm the same way

Bubba1

I think for me it’s some sort of psychological addiction. I keep changing my cars so often for the “Newest shiny” thing it’s almost comical. I’ve owned some 30 cars in the last some 40 years.

When I buy a new car my friends/family bet on how long “the flavour of the month” is going to last. I keep trying to reform myself but why? It’s a passion and better than being a womanizer, compulsive gambler or alcoholic ( even though I certainly enjoy my daily evening wine)! LOL!!

Streamliner

It’s “Old School” thinking. My dad was the youngest of ten children born to immigrant parents, raised in Chicago during The Great Depression. He instilled in my siblings and I an ethic to take care of things, especially costly ones. These days, this type of respect for the care of much of anything is rarely found amongst the younger generations. It’s all buy it, use it, throw it away.

crabman

I know exactly what you're describing, at least in my own way. One fine day, some years ago, one of my engineers asked if I was aware I could put gas in a car. It took me a second to realize he was busting my ***** over frequent trading. Lol

I don't know why I do it, other than I can, and I like it. I would say in my defense; I took care of business first, got my kids through school and all that. When I think about it, do we need a reason?

I'm not sure if that's entirely true, although I would agree some kids would certainly be as you described. I really only know my own kids well, they often bemoan the lack of quality options and the throwaway corporate goods they've been replaced with in so many cases.

It's an interesting question as to whether some would prefer the kinds of things we grew up with if given the choice. No guess on the numbers, but I know at least some, would love to have more choices.

RJC

Similar story here just sans the 10 children - my dad was born into a poor immigrant family in 1920, fought in WWll and helped support his parents until they died. He never went for the fast buck, took tremendous pride in whatever he did and disliked, liars, cry babies and sore losers…he’d have a hell of a time in today’s world. Today it’s mostly about doing the least possible for the greatest gain, and lying/spinning, cheating, and stealing is back in vogue.

SW20S

People always give me a hard time for maintaining my leased cars so well. Its just in my nature, and I enjoy maintaining my things. I couldn't drive a car and not maintain it properly...

W205C43PFL

Glad to hear you are not those who treat a car poorly just because it is not yours. ie. those said drive it like you stole it and skip break-in or don't bother washing it because it is just a lease... those people.

Sadly, people like you are getting rare : (

Wolfman

Skipping the break-in and not taking care of a car are two completely different things. I have never followed a break-in schedule apart from doing the proper service intervals and the odd differential oils changes that AMG requires and the cars have been better for it. This has nothing to do with leasing or buying either

Streamliner

I watched and found him to be very interesting and not annoying as so many of these guys are.

As previously mentioned, I’m going electric mostly for how the car drives. The smooth, ultra quiet power delivery and the amazing ride quality are just so attractive to me. The idea of no multi-speed transmission is just SO appealing, after experiencing the slush box that was my S580. Living in a place where gas prices were recently in the $6 area (they’ve been temporarily reduced a bit by politicians during this election season)and are projected to hit $10 in the not too distant future also makes going electric enticing.

EV’s are not for everyone and where one resides, how long their commute is and what their destination charging availability is are real concerns. In my case, electric is the way to go and I’m looking forward to trying it out.

W205C43PFL

I mean I did hear that people skip break-in yet don't have problems down the road like any excessive oil burning, I always thought that not breaking-in a vehicle before flooring it is neglecting the car (but that is just my thoughts really, I respect others' opinions on this topic).

I think of it as forcing the car to "work hard" without properly "feeding" it or in a "better" analogy, allowing it the stretch and do prep exercises/warming up exercises (to prevent pulling muscles or muscle cramps) before the intense training/intense exercise. Pardon my terrible analogies.

W205C43PFL

In all fairness, the ZF in BMWs are very very smooth but I think you knew that already, obviously can't be as smooth as having no gears at all

Wolfman

A break-in period is not really necessary and the thoughts on it have evolved, just like the whole cold start/warm-up scenario. Not really needed...

W205C43PFL

I see. How come MB are still putting break-in stickers on amg models? Asking out of curiosity?

Streamliner

You know, I drove the new 740i or whatever they call it and I have to tell you that it felt like a completely different car as opposed to the I7. Not nearly as smooth, quiet or comfortable to me. The difference was tremendously different.

W205C43PFL

Gotcha, I understand now.

RJC

Personally, I believe in following the break in schedule, why? Because the manufacturer/their engineers knows better than we do, and furthermore wants to keep repairs/service/warranty powertrain issues to a minimum (also beneficial to the vehicle's owner), so there's a method to their madness and mine. My $0.02

W205C43PFL

Fair fair.

BobinIL

I usually follow the manufacturers break in schedule too and for the same reasons. There may be some occasions where I don't, but probably 85%-90% of the time I follow them.

QuadBenz

You will love it once you get used to it. You won't be able to go back to ICE after getting used to the i7. We have had 10+ EVs now and have not thought about going back even once.

SW20S

I know a guy who leases high end cars and prides himself on never washing them or changing the oil. His response is "why would I, its a rental car". To me even if you are leasing a high end car, you're paying a lot. Why do you want to drive around in something filthy?! I had that GLS450 loaner for 8 days...I washed it because it was filthy.

Break in periods are outdated. Personally I think AMG suggests that to add to the allure that the car is special and handbuilt etc. Its like a Lexus ES requiring premium gas lol

Huge difference. I haven't driven a 740 but I have driven the 760 back to back with the i7 several times and the i7 feels totally different and better.

Streamliner

I’m imagining that will be the case.

crabman

Mixed bag on break in, I say that as someone who had access to a very large database with logged engine, transmission, reduction gear, PTO, and other similar equipment, lots of data over the lifetime of these components. More interesting is that in the commercial space you are sometimes talking about multiple lifetimes; you have sleeved bores and all that, they're designed to be renewed endlessly. This means you can see the same engine operated under different parameters. It's commercial usage, but in broad strokes, I'd say it's pertinent.

With cars you've got a lot of different components with differing needs for directed break-in operation. In my opinion, based on what I know, you don't need to worry about the engine, it left the factory with enough revolutions to be largely beyond any benefit, and moderate initial loading may show an extended service life.

Probably time to be talking about moderate, and with it, duration. Should you enter into a commercial endeavor involving an engine that costs you millions; you have incentive to get it right. What right will end up looking like is a load table defining the load you're going to put on the engine over the time following the first start. You'll be hooking up to a load cell for smaller engines; these are usually nothing more than a great big toaster, tons of toaster, and the resistance is going to be your load. Bigger engines in power plants may be aligned into an array and load sharing will be used to control the load. On a boat, with main propulsion, they will pull on the dock to start, and then head out to a sea after a short time, where they will introduce load as directed during a sea trial. There is always a way, and when it's your millions, you're going to follow the procedure. This is almost invariably going to be a light load that is increased over time.

So then you've got duration; how long will this directed operation go on? This will usually be defined in hours, and it's not many, as little as a few, to around 20 for some gears, the longest I'm aware of are ring and pinions. There could be others that are more, can't say.

To go back to that engine, it has been started and stopped multiple times before you got the car. This isn't just a matter of making revolutions, its had heat cycles, that's a good thing. When it's my money, I don't baby it, but I do drive moderately in the early miles. I vary my speeds. If at all possible, I'd arrange for heat cycles in those early miles.

So why the heat cycles? That would be your diff, those gears require a mating process to reach their final service condition and that can only happen during actual use. Overloading these gears before they are ready will create excessive heat. At best it will increase gear whine, they will in any event be weaker, and your worst outcome is failure.

Lets go back to that 20 hours I mentioned. A typical car will go around 500 miles during that time. Most of you are probably too young to have changed gears on your cars. Those that have will recall that Motive, or whoever made your gears, will recommend something like 400 to 500 miles before full load operation. They will tell you to heat cycle the gears when you first install them by driving a short distance and then stopping for a time period. More or less 3 heat/cooling cycles and then you're told to vary your speeds and limit load, gradually increasing load as you get to their recommended full throttle mileage.

Anyone notice how it used to be your break-in was 500 miles, almost everywhere? That isn't an accident, that's when the longest directed break-in operation item, your ring and pinion, will be fully in service.

Why the 1000 mile thing you see nowadays? Things break more often when flogged, less often when babied. I don't think this, the data shows it to be true. Imagine you could increase profitability by simply changing a number that would have millions of owners babying their cars for an extra 500 miles.

I'm in Italy typing away in a wine bar; Mrs Crab has gone home ahead of me and I'm free to play. I apologize if I screwed that up on my phone.

Streamliner

[QUOTE=crabman;8988029)………….I'm in Italy typing away in a wine bar; Mrs Crab has gone home ahead of me and I'm free to play. I apologize if I screwed that up on my phone.[/QUOTE]

You did great. Have a safe trip.