I drove a new BMW I7 and…….
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I'm that way with everything I/we own, why not keep things looking/working as new as long as possible. And yes, before someone says I don't drive/use them as intended, I do indeed - just enjoy keeping everything in pristine condition.
Last edited by RJC; 06-16-2024 at 03:54 AM.
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Streamliner (06-16-2024)
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As it's been an ongoing part of this discussion, here is Motoman's take on EV adaption. He covers a lot of ground in this one, and while that meandering will cover some topics that are less interesting, his views have some weight as he has strong contacts in the industry. In other words, these are the opinions of a man who really does know and talk to some of the people making the decisions defining what we'll be driving tomorrow.
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When I buy a new car my friends/family bet on how long “the flavour of the month” is going to last. I keep trying to reform myself but why? It’s a passion and better than being a womanizer, compulsive gambler or alcoholic ( even though I certainly enjoy my daily evening wine)! LOL!!
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crabman (06-16-2024)
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It’s “Old School” thinking. My dad was the youngest of ten children born to immigrant parents, raised in Chicago during The Great Depression. He instilled in my siblings and I an ethic to take care of things, especially costly ones. These days, this type of respect for the care of much of anything is rarely found amongst the younger generations. It’s all buy it, use it, throw it away.
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I think for me it’s some sort of psychological addiction. I keep changing my cars so often for the “Newest shiny” thing it’s almost comical. I’ve owned some 30 cars in the last some 40 years.
When I buy a new car my friends/family bet on how long “the flavour of the month” is going to last. I keep trying to reform myself but why? It’s a passion and better than being a womanizer, compulsive gambler or alcoholic ( even though I certainly enjoy my daily evening wine)! LOL!!
When I buy a new car my friends/family bet on how long “the flavour of the month” is going to last. I keep trying to reform myself but why? It’s a passion and better than being a womanizer, compulsive gambler or alcoholic ( even though I certainly enjoy my daily evening wine)! LOL!!
I don't know why I do it, other than I can, and I like it. I would say in my defense; I took care of business first, got my kids through school and all that. When I think about it, do we need a reason?
It’s “Old School” thinking. My dad was the youngest of ten children born to immigrant parents, raised in Chicago during The Great Depression. He instilled in my siblings and I an ethic to take care of things, especially costly ones. These days, this type of respect for the care of much of anything is rarely found amongst the younger generations. It’s all buy it, use it, throw it away.
It's an interesting question as to whether some would prefer the kinds of things we grew up with if given the choice. No guess on the numbers, but I know at least some, would love to have more choices.
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#232
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It’s “Old School” thinking. My dad was the youngest of ten children born to immigrant parents, raised in Chicago during The Great Depression. He instilled in my siblings and I an ethic to take care of things, especially costly ones. These days, this type of respect for the care of much of anything is rarely found amongst the younger generations. It’s all buy it, use it, throw it away.
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#233
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People always give me a hard time for maintaining my leased cars so well. Its just in my nature, and I enjoy maintaining my things. I couldn't drive a car and not maintain it properly...
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Sadly, people like you are getting rare : (
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Skipping the break-in and not taking care of a car are two completely different things. I have never followed a break-in schedule apart from doing the proper service intervals and the odd differential oils changes that AMG requires and the cars have been better for it. This has nothing to do with leasing or buying either
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As it's been an ongoing part of this discussion, here is Motoman's take on EV adaption. He covers a lot of ground in this one, and while that meandering will cover some topics that are less interesting, his views have some weight as he has strong contacts in the industry. In other words, these are the opinions of a man who really does know and talk to some of the people making the decisions defining what we'll be driving tomorrow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxnfDvPWinQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxnfDvPWinQ
As previously mentioned, I’m going electric mostly for how the car drives. The smooth, ultra quiet power delivery and the amazing ride quality are just so attractive to me. The idea of no multi-speed transmission is just SO appealing, after experiencing the slush box that was my S580. Living in a place where gas prices were recently in the $6 area (they’ve been temporarily reduced a bit by politicians during this election season)and are projected to hit $10 in the not too distant future also makes going electric enticing.
EV’s are not for everyone and where one resides, how long their commute is and what their destination charging availability is are real concerns. In my case, electric is the way to go and I’m looking forward to trying it out.
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Skipping the break-in and not taking care of a car are two completely different things. I have never followed a break-in schedule apart from doing the proper service intervals and the odd differential oils changes that AMG requires and the cars have been better for it. This has nothing to do with leasing or buying either
I think of it as forcing the car to "work hard" without properly "feeding" it or in a "better" analogy, allowing it the stretch and do prep exercises/warming up exercises (to prevent pulling muscles or muscle cramps) before the intense training/intense exercise. Pardon my terrible analogies.
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RJC (06-17-2024)
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I watched and found him to be very interesting and not annoying as so many of these guys are.
As previously mentioned, I’m going electric mostly for how the car drives. The smooth, ultra quiet power delivery and the amazing ride quality are just so attractive to me. The idea of no multi-speed transmission is just SO appealing, after experiencing the slush box that was my S580. Living in a place where gas prices were recently in the $6 area (they’ve been temporarily reduced a bit by politicians during this election season)and are projected to hit $10 in the not too distant future also makes going electric enticing.
EV’s are not for everyone and where one resides, how long their commute is and what their destination charging availability is are real concerns. In my case, electric is the way to go and I’m looking forward to trying it out.
As previously mentioned, I’m going electric mostly for how the car drives. The smooth, ultra quiet power delivery and the amazing ride quality are just so attractive to me. The idea of no multi-speed transmission is just SO appealing, after experiencing the slush box that was my S580. Living in a place where gas prices were recently in the $6 area (they’ve been temporarily reduced a bit by politicians during this election season)and are projected to hit $10 in the not too distant future also makes going electric enticing.
EV’s are not for everyone and where one resides, how long their commute is and what their destination charging availability is are real concerns. In my case, electric is the way to go and I’m looking forward to trying it out.
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RJC (06-17-2024)
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I mean I did hear that people skip break-in yet don't have problems down the road like any excessive oil burning, I always thought that not breaking-in a vehicle before flooring it is neglecting the car (but that is just my thoughts really, I respect others' opinions on this topic).
I think of it as forcing the car to "work hard" without properly "feeding" it or in a "better" analogy, allowing it the stretch and do prep exercises/warming up exercises (to prevent pulling muscles or muscle cramps) before the intense training/intense exercise. Pardon my terrible analogies.
I think of it as forcing the car to "work hard" without properly "feeding" it or in a "better" analogy, allowing it the stretch and do prep exercises/warming up exercises (to prevent pulling muscles or muscle cramps) before the intense training/intense exercise. Pardon my terrible analogies.
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You know, I drove the new 740i or whatever they call it and I have to tell you that it felt like a completely different car as opposed to the I7. Not nearly as smooth, quiet or comfortable to me. The difference was tremendously different.
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Personally, I believe in following the break in schedule, why? Because the manufacturer/their engineers knows better than we do, and furthermore wants to keep repairs/service/warranty powertrain issues to a minimum (also beneficial to the vehicle's owner), so there's a method to their madness and mine. My $0.02
Last edited by RJC; 06-17-2024 at 05:30 PM.
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Personally, I believe in following the break in schedule, why? Because the manufacturer/their engineers knows better than we do, and furthermore wants to keep repairs/service/warranty powertrain issues to a minimum (also beneficial to the vehicle's owner), so there's a method to their madness and mine. My $0.02
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I watched and found him to be very interesting and not annoying as so many of these guys are.
As previously mentioned, I’m going electric mostly for how the car drives. The smooth, ultra quiet power delivery and the amazing ride quality are just so attractive to me. The idea of no multi-speed transmission is just SO appealing, after experiencing the slush box that was my S580. Living in a place where gas prices were recently in the $6 area (they’ve been temporarily reduced a bit by politicians during this election season)and are projected to hit $10 in the not too distant future also makes going electric enticing.
EV’s are not for everyone and where one resides, how long their commute is and what their destination charging availability is are real concerns. In my case, electric is the way to go and I’m looking forward to trying it out.
As previously mentioned, I’m going electric mostly for how the car drives. The smooth, ultra quiet power delivery and the amazing ride quality are just so attractive to me. The idea of no multi-speed transmission is just SO appealing, after experiencing the slush box that was my S580. Living in a place where gas prices were recently in the $6 area (they’ve been temporarily reduced a bit by politicians during this election season)and are projected to hit $10 in the not too distant future also makes going electric enticing.
EV’s are not for everyone and where one resides, how long their commute is and what their destination charging availability is are real concerns. In my case, electric is the way to go and I’m looking forward to trying it out.
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#247
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I mean I did hear that people skip break-in yet don't have problems down the road like any excessive oil burning, I always thought that not breaking-in a vehicle before flooring it is neglecting the car (but that is just my thoughts really, I respect others' opinions on this topic).
I think of it as forcing the car to "work hard" without properly "feeding" it or in a "better" analogy, allowing it the stretch and do prep exercises/warming up exercises (to prevent pulling muscles or muscle cramps) before the intense training/intense exercise. Pardon my terrible analogies.
I think of it as forcing the car to "work hard" without properly "feeding" it or in a "better" analogy, allowing it the stretch and do prep exercises/warming up exercises (to prevent pulling muscles or muscle cramps) before the intense training/intense exercise. Pardon my terrible analogies.
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MBNUT1 (06-18-2024)
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Mixed bag on break in, I say that as someone who had access to a very large database with logged engine, transmission, reduction gear, PTO, and other similar equipment, lots of data over the lifetime of these components. More interesting is that in the commercial space you are sometimes talking about multiple lifetimes; you have sleeved bores and all that, they're designed to be renewed endlessly. This means you can see the same engine operated under different parameters. It's commercial usage, but in broad strokes, I'd say it's pertinent.
With cars you've got a lot of different components with differing needs for directed break-in operation. In my opinion, based on what I know, you don't need to worry about the engine, it left the factory with enough revolutions to be largely beyond any benefit, and moderate initial loading may show an extended service life.
Probably time to be talking about moderate, and with it, duration. Should you enter into a commercial endeavor involving an engine that costs you millions; you have incentive to get it right. What right will end up looking like is a load table defining the load you're going to put on the engine over the time following the first start. You'll be hooking up to a load cell for smaller engines; these are usually nothing more than a great big toaster, tons of toaster, and the resistance is going to be your load. Bigger engines in power plants may be aligned into an array and load sharing will be used to control the load. On a boat, with main propulsion, they will pull on the dock to start, and then head out to a sea after a short time, where they will introduce load as directed during a sea trial. There is always a way, and when it's your millions, you're going to follow the procedure. This is almost invariably going to be a light load that is increased over time.
So then you've got duration; how long will this directed operation go on? This will usually be defined in hours, and it's not many, as little as a few, to around 20 for some gears, the longest I'm aware of are ring and pinions. There could be others that are more, can't say.
To go back to that engine, it has been started and stopped multiple times before you got the car. This isn't just a matter of making revolutions, its had heat cycles, that's a good thing. When it's my money, I don't baby it, but I do drive moderately in the early miles. I vary my speeds. If at all possible, I'd arrange for heat cycles in those early miles.
So why the heat cycles? That would be your diff, those gears require a mating process to reach their final service condition and that can only happen during actual use. Overloading these gears before they are ready will create excessive heat. At best it will increase gear whine, they will in any event be weaker, and your worst outcome is failure.
Lets go back to that 20 hours I mentioned. A typical car will go around 500 miles during that time. Most of you are probably too young to have changed gears on your cars. Those that have will recall that Motive, or whoever made your gears, will recommend something like 400 to 500 miles before full load operation. They will tell you to heat cycle the gears when you first install them by driving a short distance and then stopping for a time period. More or less 3 heat/cooling cycles and then you're told to vary your speeds and limit load, gradually increasing load as you get to their recommended full throttle mileage.
Anyone notice how it used to be your break-in was 500 miles, almost everywhere? That isn't an accident, that's when the longest directed break-in operation item, your ring and pinion, will be fully in service.
Why the 1000 mile thing you see nowadays? Things break more often when flogged, less often when babied. I don't think this, the data shows it to be true. Imagine you could increase profitability by simply changing a number that would have millions of owners babying their cars for an extra 500 miles.
I'm in Italy typing away in a wine bar; Mrs Crab has gone home ahead of me and I'm free to play. I apologize if I screwed that up on my phone.
With cars you've got a lot of different components with differing needs for directed break-in operation. In my opinion, based on what I know, you don't need to worry about the engine, it left the factory with enough revolutions to be largely beyond any benefit, and moderate initial loading may show an extended service life.
Probably time to be talking about moderate, and with it, duration. Should you enter into a commercial endeavor involving an engine that costs you millions; you have incentive to get it right. What right will end up looking like is a load table defining the load you're going to put on the engine over the time following the first start. You'll be hooking up to a load cell for smaller engines; these are usually nothing more than a great big toaster, tons of toaster, and the resistance is going to be your load. Bigger engines in power plants may be aligned into an array and load sharing will be used to control the load. On a boat, with main propulsion, they will pull on the dock to start, and then head out to a sea after a short time, where they will introduce load as directed during a sea trial. There is always a way, and when it's your millions, you're going to follow the procedure. This is almost invariably going to be a light load that is increased over time.
So then you've got duration; how long will this directed operation go on? This will usually be defined in hours, and it's not many, as little as a few, to around 20 for some gears, the longest I'm aware of are ring and pinions. There could be others that are more, can't say.
To go back to that engine, it has been started and stopped multiple times before you got the car. This isn't just a matter of making revolutions, its had heat cycles, that's a good thing. When it's my money, I don't baby it, but I do drive moderately in the early miles. I vary my speeds. If at all possible, I'd arrange for heat cycles in those early miles.
So why the heat cycles? That would be your diff, those gears require a mating process to reach their final service condition and that can only happen during actual use. Overloading these gears before they are ready will create excessive heat. At best it will increase gear whine, they will in any event be weaker, and your worst outcome is failure.
Lets go back to that 20 hours I mentioned. A typical car will go around 500 miles during that time. Most of you are probably too young to have changed gears on your cars. Those that have will recall that Motive, or whoever made your gears, will recommend something like 400 to 500 miles before full load operation. They will tell you to heat cycle the gears when you first install them by driving a short distance and then stopping for a time period. More or less 3 heat/cooling cycles and then you're told to vary your speeds and limit load, gradually increasing load as you get to their recommended full throttle mileage.
Anyone notice how it used to be your break-in was 500 miles, almost everywhere? That isn't an accident, that's when the longest directed break-in operation item, your ring and pinion, will be fully in service.
Why the 1000 mile thing you see nowadays? Things break more often when flogged, less often when babied. I don't think this, the data shows it to be true. Imagine you could increase profitability by simply changing a number that would have millions of owners babying their cars for an extra 500 miles.
I'm in Italy typing away in a wine bar; Mrs Crab has gone home ahead of me and I'm free to play. I apologize if I screwed that up on my phone.
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Streamliner (06-18-2024)
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[QUOTE=crabman;8988029)………….I'm in Italy typing away in a wine bar; Mrs Crab has gone home ahead of me and I'm free to play. I apologize if I screwed that up on my phone.[/QUOTE]
You did great. Have a safe trip.
You did great. Have a safe trip.