crabman

Some of those might look better if they were in our price range; less isn't appealing when you're long accustomed to more. What does Acura look like when you're an Escape owner aspiring to move up to an MDX? Probably a lot better than it looks to us, is my thinking.

Let's face it, we're spoiled. We've covered about everything you could possibly buy and found them lacking. It reminds me of this cheese shop I was in years ago in France. There is a small area to queue and a line to a counter with all the cheese behind it. A man is looking at the offerings and eventually picked one. The young lady cuts a small piece, which he then sampled. He ate it very slowly, then he said, "Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....No." he looked at the cheese again for an interminable period before picking another. Same process; ate it very slowly and then, "Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm... No." This went on a half dozen or more times before he finally said oui, although by the look on his face we expected another rejection. We've been making fun of that guy for decades in the Crab household. For some reason, it came to mind as I read this thread.

MBS63AMG

Honda has Acura (no longer has a flagship car)
Nissan has Infiniti (no longer has a flagship car)
Toyota has Lexus (may be saying goodbye to their flagship)
BMW has Rolls-Royce (holding on)
Volkswagen has Audi/Porsche/Lamborghini/Bentley (holding on)
Kia/Hyundai has Genesis (not a strong dealership network in America)
Ford has Lincoln (seems good for now)
Chevrolet has Cadillac (still holding on)

Mercedes has....well, Mercedes has Mercedes. Will Mercedes ruin their flagship, the king of the luxury car world for over a century?

chassis

Dealer network notwithstanding, Genesis is gaining share. Mercedes is losing ground to its competitors as a group, Genesis is part of that group gaining ground on MB.

Streamliner

WHEN Genesis gets their dealer infrastructure in place and if and when Lexus gets back to sanity, they will give German companies a run for their money.

W205C43PFL

Yes we were even talking about it earlier in another thread, I don't understand these hand scratching decisions made by automakers: https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...ml#post8782189

W205C43PFL

Toyota then now has Crown as well although technically not competing with MB because it is not a luxury brand.

I don't understand why Acura would get rid of their flagship, they think they can't compete with Germans I guess.

Infiniti has been doing poorly for a while now, people even predict them going bankrupt during 2022, glad it didn't happen, as the more options the better for consumers. I think MB's partnership did change things and now they no longer partner with each other that will change things as well.

Speaking of those ultra luxury brands, it is crazy to think that they once were at the tip point of going bankrupt such as Maybach, Rolls-Royce etc. until the respectively companies then bought them out... food for thought.

W205C43PFL

Mercedes was wise to move back up market by eliminating some models such as the plan to eliminate A-Class (as you know they were using it to capture non-luxury market from like Toyota, Honda, etc. and hoping when those customers grow older, they will stick with the brand and upgrade to a C or E or S, I think those were their exact words even) globally (they did already with North America as you know but not entirely as there is still GLA, GLB, CLA etc.)

Acura and Lexus like you mentioned are doing the opposite for some strange reasons, especially how they already have Honda and Toyota. What gives? MB doesn't have a non-luxury brand other than smart but even that is gone now.

W205C43PFL

Another brand that was discussed quite often on the forums but not a luxury brand, so more on the premium side is Mazda, and they are trying to compete by moving upmarket, evident of inline 6 and the CX90.

Oh, last but not least there is also Volvo, less luxury more premium type of brand now. Polestar (not the Polestar engineered Volvo line) is a different story I guess.

W205C43PFL

Back to MB for a second.... now they have Mythos... on top of Maybach, they were trying to compete with Rolls-Royce with Maybach but given how they claim Mythos is the super luxury version of Maybach, I guess they will have a real Rolls-Royce competitor then?

Wolfman

Certainly not with the G90. That car is a dud.
I congratulate Hyundai for playing the long game and their persistence but at this rate they are likely loosing significant money on each car.
In 2022 they aimed to triple their G90 sales by 2023 with their new model; not happening...

Wolfman

I assume you meant Bentley. Maybach was purchased by MB in 1960 and resurrected in 2002. The 57/62 models turned out to be a big loss/tax write-off but Maybach is likely now the most profitable one at this time.

W205C43PFL

Mhmmm I did, thanks for the correction.

mercedesmax

Acura never competed with Mercedes. The 2nd gen Legend was below the Lexus LS.
Rolls Royce motors was owned by Vickers, a British defense co. VW bought Rolls and Bentley and the factory from Vickers. Except that Rolls Royce PLC, the aircraft engine maker owned the Rolls trade mark and wouldn't sell it to VW. BMW got it instead. Rolls and Bentley had been starved of funds for decades. German ownership brought much greater resources so the 2 companies flourished.

W205C43PFL

Thanks for the information on their history, so much back and forth.

mercedesmax

Seriously?
https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...esults-In-2022

MBS63AMG

Ironically my only Nissan product that I've owned is my current Nissan Titan which I LOVE!!!!!! I did not know that MB and Infiniti were partners at some time lately. Funny how an old timer MB fanatic since I was 6 years old fell into a Nissan product not knowing it had a MB touch to it.

MBS63AMG

Holy crap, I can't believe I forgot to mention Volvo. For several years, my local MB dealership only sold MBs and Volvos and I always placed them in the high-end car choices when I was growing up in the 60s and 70s. They were always the red headed, freckled beauty in their day and now they have really stepped up in the design department as the latest flagships have made major improvements.

MBS63AMG

Never heard of Mythos. I'll have to look it up. Won't be able to buy one but my interest in this segment of cars will be discussed at my funeral, I'm sure. Gettin' ahead of myself.

W205C43PFL

Glad you enjoy the product, it is not a bad truck : ).

When it comes to MB partnership, Nissan probably partnered under the Renault-Nissan Alliance to help build the A-Class and some engine variants (I think Decherd was one of them)

Another partnership was probably the X-Class, the Mercedes pickup truck that got discontinued. Infiniti partnered to help build the GLA and the QX30.

I think Nissan also help build the GLB through "COMPAS" in Mexico, that plant also builds the QX55. Although not necessary considered as partnership but the front and rear of the C118 CLA looks very similar to Q60.

After they ended the partnership, I think Mercedes resorted to geely.

MBS63AMG

The previous G90 was perfect. All they had to do was refresh it a little.

MBS63AMG

You would think Mercedes would have learned their lesson when they got drunk and went to bed with Chrysler. Maybe they need to go to AA (automobiles anonymous).

W205C43PFL

I know right. That said, geely aside I think they are trying to go upmarket, so they don't need companies like Nissan building engines for A-Class as well as they are slowly phasing it out (although not all A-Class engines were build by Nissan just some I think), which resulted in the discontinuation of the Metris as well?

MBS63AMG

Test drove an A class when it first came out and was not impressed at all. The exterior design was good but the quality of everything was inferior as can be.

W205C43PFL

I mean they used that to attract non-luxury buyers to the brand and "So they can keep them for life" their words.

MBS63AMG

I usually watch good football commercials but as of late I've not heard MB commercials using the slogan "The best or nothing" lately. It needs to be changed to "our accountants are better than your accountants".