What brand is MB’s nemesis these days?
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,157
Likes: 4,382
From: Corona Del Mar, CA
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
What brand is MB’s nemesis these days?
What brand does MB fear the most, when it comes to losing customers? Is it BMW or has it evolved to Tesla or Genesis? I’m sure at one time at least, it must have been Lexus. Does it bother them more to lose out to another European brand or does it really fry them when a customer jumps to an Asian or American brand? What really pisses them off these days, if anything? Just curious?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,350
Likes: 493
From: Birmingham, AL
2019 S560, 2022 Audi S8
What brand does MB fear the most, when it comes to losing customers? Is it BMW or has it evolved to Tesla or Genesis? I’m sure at one time at least, it must have been Lexus. Does it bother them more to lose out to another European brand or does it really fry them when a customer jumps to an Asian or American brand? What really pisses them off these days, if anything? Just curious?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,180
Likes: 969
From: Costco
2025 AMG GT 63, 2023 S500, 2022 GLE53
From a holistic brand and model perspective, BMW, Audi and MB are the German trifecta that people tend to cross shop a lot. Porsche and Land Rover are also cross shopped but those shoppers tend to be in the S-class range.
I don’t know if MB is afraid of any of these insofar that these are their traditional competition. I personally don’t believe Lexus breaks into the mold. To me, Lexus buyers are more value/reliability orientated. There’s certainly nothing wrong with that, and that is not to say Lexus’ can’t compete, but it’s just a different mindset. Here, we know these cars won’t last, are more expensive than Lexus, are ultra expensive to repair, and as a result, has a certain snobby cachet that we as buyers just don’t care as much and want the best.
I think Tesla, Lucid et al., are certainly in the picture if you’re looking electric.
I don’t know if MB is afraid of any of these insofar that these are their traditional competition. I personally don’t believe Lexus breaks into the mold. To me, Lexus buyers are more value/reliability orientated. There’s certainly nothing wrong with that, and that is not to say Lexus’ can’t compete, but it’s just a different mindset. Here, we know these cars won’t last, are more expensive than Lexus, are ultra expensive to repair, and as a result, has a certain snobby cachet that we as buyers just don’t care as much and want the best.
I think Tesla, Lucid et al., are certainly in the picture if you’re looking electric.
Last edited by Frenetic; May 20, 2023 at 12:43 PM.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,157
Likes: 4,382
From: Corona Del Mar, CA
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
For Christmas of 1984, I bought my mom dad a new Cadillac Seville. My dad had not had a new car since his 1952 Chevrolet. He babied the Caddy, changed the oil every 2,000 miles, never abused it, etc. Just after it turned 50,000 miles, as they were driving home to L.A. from Las Vegas, the entire engine left town. The car was towed to the Cadillac dealer in West L.A. where the engine was pronounced DOA. They refused to repair it under warranty.
I FedEx’d a letter Roger Smith the CEO of GM ant the time, outlining the situation and begging for an accommodation, but received no reply. Then, as I had arranged to have the car towed home, as we were not going to pay whatever the exorbitant estimate was for a new engine, the service manager asked me what I was going to do. I told him that I was going to junk the Caddy and that I was going right over to Lexus Santa Monica and buy my dad a new LS400. He asked me to give him a minute. He went to his office and five minutes later he came out and told me that the engine would be replaced under warranty.
To this day, I believe the idea of Cadillac losing a customer to the brand new upstart Lexus was what tipped the scales and got us the warranty repair.
I FedEx’d a letter Roger Smith the CEO of GM ant the time, outlining the situation and begging for an accommodation, but received no reply. Then, as I had arranged to have the car towed home, as we were not going to pay whatever the exorbitant estimate was for a new engine, the service manager asked me what I was going to do. I told him that I was going to junk the Caddy and that I was going right over to Lexus Santa Monica and buy my dad a new LS400. He asked me to give him a minute. He went to his office and five minutes later he came out and told me that the engine would be replaced under warranty.
To this day, I believe the idea of Cadillac losing a customer to the brand new upstart Lexus was what tipped the scales and got us the warranty repair.
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 583
Likes: 238
From: South by Southwest
2021 AMG E63s Wagon
Course 6 and Computer Engineering
My Kids would rather have latest iPhone over a Mercedes. At Daughter's MIT '21 graduation ceremony guest speaker theme was saving the planet, anti ICE, and anti Big Oil & Gas. She recently left DoD in Maryland for Microsoft $210K Gig in Virginia at age 23. Son who is actually smarter than his older sister has a 3.7 GPA and just transferred to Georgia Tech.
The answer is TESLA...
The answer is TESLA...
Trending Topics
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 404
Likes: 386
2022 S580
MB with the S class has intentionally positioned itself as an attempt to be above BMWAudi/Lexus and is gunning at Bentley/Rolls.
The pricing and positioning of the S class has been deliberately positioned that way. Is it successful? Juries out as the MB brand has been diluted by offering too many models on the low end of the spectrum.
Tesla is definitely a thorn in their side and continues to steal market share. I believe Tesla is a definite threat especially with the changing demographic. In fact if you look at the styling of the new S class (door handles/centre tablet etc) MB is imitating Tesla. Imitation is the ultimate form of flattery!
Back to OPs question biggest threat is Tesla and to a lesser extent continues to be BMW.
The pricing and positioning of the S class has been deliberately positioned that way. Is it successful? Juries out as the MB brand has been diluted by offering too many models on the low end of the spectrum.
Tesla is definitely a thorn in their side and continues to steal market share. I believe Tesla is a definite threat especially with the changing demographic. In fact if you look at the styling of the new S class (door handles/centre tablet etc) MB is imitating Tesla. Imitation is the ultimate form of flattery!
Back to OPs question biggest threat is Tesla and to a lesser extent continues to be BMW.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
6 Mercedes Models That Did NOT Age Well (But Are Somehow Still Cool)
Verdad Gallardo
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 14,692
Likes: 4,584
From: unbegrenzt
2017 GLE350 4MATIC
What brand does MB fear the most, when it comes to losing customers? Is it BMW or has it evolved to Tesla or Genesis? I’m sure at one time at least, it must have been Lexus. Does it bother them more to lose out to another European brand or does it really fry them when a customer jumps to an Asian or American brand? What really pisses them off these days, if anything? Just curious?
MB should fear most its own ineptitude.
It fears BMW and Audi because they are home-market threats and have the same cultural (German) DNA, and can nip away at the lower fringe of the price tiers.
MB fears Japanese and Korean brands because, believe it or not, some consumers do care about reliability, an attribute which MB has nothing to offer.
MB fears Porsche and Bentley because MB can’t compete at the higher price tiers, although they have tried with Maybach.
MB fears any adjacent brand. Industry journalists write about MB’s glaring weaknesses. The weaknesses are no secret, except maybe to MB themselves and to unsuspecting/unsophisticated first-time MB buyers who fall victim.
Tesla is a nothing burger. VAG will squash any car company with sustained investment over the long term.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 2,296
Likes: 1,481
23 S580 Executive
Tesla has nowhere to go but down IMO; they're still rolling on brand recognition right now but by and large a car buyer can do better elsewhere and eventually that's going to play out on the sales floor. At least among early EV adopters I know it already is; they're moving on to the various upstarts (Lucid, Rivian, etc) or switching to established brands and their offerings like the EQS, Taycan, etc. Tesla isn't the only game in town anymore, and it shows in my neighborhood.
The usual German luxury brands are certainly competitors even when not apples to apples, and that's unlikely to change. Porsche has a different focus and better heeled buyers. Audi has been gimped by the move to EV which has left some models dying on the vine awaiting their EV replacements. I think I'd go with BMW for now as the strongest old school competitor.
The usual German luxury brands are certainly competitors even when not apples to apples, and that's unlikely to change. Porsche has a different focus and better heeled buyers. Audi has been gimped by the move to EV which has left some models dying on the vine awaiting their EV replacements. I think I'd go with BMW for now as the strongest old school competitor.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,350
Likes: 493
From: Birmingham, AL
2019 S560, 2022 Audi S8
For Christmas of 1984, I bought my mom dad a new Cadillac Seville. My dad had not had a new car since his 1952 Chevrolet. He babied the Caddy, changed the oil every 2,000 miles, never abused it, etc. Just after it turned 50,000 miles, as they were driving home to L.A. from Las Vegas, the entire engine left town. The car was towed to the Cadillac dealer in West L.A. where the engine was pronounced DOA. They refused to repair it under warranty.
I FedEx’d a letter Roger Smith the CEO of GM ant the time, outlining the situation and begging for an accommodation, but received no reply. Then, as I had arranged to have the car towed home, as we were not going to pay whatever the exorbitant estimate was for a new engine, the service manager asked me what I was going to do. I told him that I was going to junk the Caddy and that I was going right over to Lexus Santa Monica and buy my dad a new LS400. He asked me to give him a minute. He went to his office and five minutes later he came out and told me that the engine would be replaced under warranty.
To this day, I believe the idea of Cadillac losing a customer to the brand new upstart Lexus was what tipped the scales and got us the warranty repair.
I FedEx’d a letter Roger Smith the CEO of GM ant the time, outlining the situation and begging for an accommodation, but received no reply. Then, as I had arranged to have the car towed home, as we were not going to pay whatever the exorbitant estimate was for a new engine, the service manager asked me what I was going to do. I told him that I was going to junk the Caddy and that I was going right over to Lexus Santa Monica and buy my dad a new LS400. He asked me to give him a minute. He went to his office and five minutes later he came out and told me that the engine would be replaced under warranty.
To this day, I believe the idea of Cadillac losing a customer to the brand new upstart Lexus was what tipped the scales and got us the warranty repair.
Super Moderator
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,556
Likes: 3,680
From: Land of 10,000 lakes
AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
MB should fear most its own ineptitude.
It fears BMW and Audi because they are home-market threats and have the same cultural (German) DNA, and can nip away at the lower fringe of the price tiers.
MB fears Japanese and Korean brands because, believe it or not, some consumers do care about reliability, an attribute which MB has nothing to offer.
MB fears Porsche and Bentley because MB can’t compete at the higher price tiers, although they have tried with Maybach.
MB fears any adjacent brand. Industry journalists write about MB’s glaring weaknesses. The weaknesses are no secret, except maybe to MB themselves and to unsuspecting/unsophisticated first-time MB buyers who fall victim.
Tesla is a nothing burger. VAG will squash any car company with sustained investment over the long term.
It fears BMW and Audi because they are home-market threats and have the same cultural (German) DNA, and can nip away at the lower fringe of the price tiers.
MB fears Japanese and Korean brands because, believe it or not, some consumers do care about reliability, an attribute which MB has nothing to offer.
MB fears Porsche and Bentley because MB can’t compete at the higher price tiers, although they have tried with Maybach.
MB fears any adjacent brand. Industry journalists write about MB’s glaring weaknesses. The weaknesses are no secret, except maybe to MB themselves and to unsuspecting/unsophisticated first-time MB buyers who fall victim.
Tesla is a nothing burger. VAG will squash any car company with sustained investment over the long term.
MB coincidently is doing better on the margin side than in previous decades. They know that they have a well recognized luxury brand and will bank on that.
Expect more price increases and going after more high-end specialty segments. AMG, G-Wagon and Maybach.
I think their worst fear is the performance of the EQ brand. Those cars are neither luxurious nor good looking enough to fit the future luxury/ultra luxury EV segment.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,350
Likes: 493
From: Birmingham, AL
2019 S560, 2022 Audi S8
MB with the S class has intentionally positioned itself as an attempt to be above BMWAudi/Lexus and is gunning at Bentley/Rolls.
The pricing and positioning of the S class has been deliberately positioned that way. Is it successful? Juries out as the MB brand has been diluted by offering too many models on the low end of the spectrum.
Tesla is definitely a thorn in their side and continues to steal market share. I believe Tesla is a definite threat especially with the changing demographic. In fact if you look at the styling of the new S class (door handles/centre tablet etc) MB is imitating Tesla. Imitation is the ultimate form of flattery!
Back to OPs question biggest threat is Tesla and to a lesser extent continues to be BMW.
The pricing and positioning of the S class has been deliberately positioned that way. Is it successful? Juries out as the MB brand has been diluted by offering too many models on the low end of the spectrum.
Tesla is definitely a thorn in their side and continues to steal market share. I believe Tesla is a definite threat especially with the changing demographic. In fact if you look at the styling of the new S class (door handles/centre tablet etc) MB is imitating Tesla. Imitation is the ultimate form of flattery!
Back to OPs question biggest threat is Tesla and to a lesser extent continues to be BMW.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 3,158
Likes: 1,532
From: U.S.
Current/Last 5-years:GLS;G70;Alpina B8;X7;Accord. Sold:X7,TeslaS;S560;S550,X5;530e;L.Navigator;LS460
The reality is, most current Tesla owners (specifically Model S and X), are those who owned luxury vehicles like Mercedes-Benz and BMW, which indicates a significant shift in the market. Tesla has already surpassed Audi in global car sales in 2023 and soon will also outperform BMW and Mercedes-Benz. Hence, it's not simply a question of who Mbenz should fear; rather, they will soon find themselves trailing behind Tesla, according to car sales projections.
Unless Mbenz acts quickly by offering: 1. better technology, 2. more PHEV and EV options, and 3. again visually appealing vehicles just like the past, Tesla will continue to gain momentum.
We (the loyal Benz or BMW fans/community) may continue to dismiss Tesla's influence until they prove us wrong. Regardless of our personal biases, whether we acknowledge it or not, the facts indicate that Tesla is on track for success while BMW and Mercedes-Benz are experiencing a decline in popularity. We will continue to deny Tesla until Tesla overtakes the market and until most of current fans switch to Tesla. Facts are facts.. u can deny it, but trends and facts indicate that Tesla will win soon and is already winning.
Unless Mbenz acts quickly by offering: 1. better technology, 2. more PHEV and EV options, and 3. again visually appealing vehicles just like the past, Tesla will continue to gain momentum.
We (the loyal Benz or BMW fans/community) may continue to dismiss Tesla's influence until they prove us wrong. Regardless of our personal biases, whether we acknowledge it or not, the facts indicate that Tesla is on track for success while BMW and Mercedes-Benz are experiencing a decline in popularity. We will continue to deny Tesla until Tesla overtakes the market and until most of current fans switch to Tesla. Facts are facts.. u can deny it, but trends and facts indicate that Tesla will win soon and is already winning.
Last edited by S_W222; May 20, 2023 at 05:39 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,180
Likes: 969
From: Costco
2025 AMG GT 63, 2023 S500, 2022 GLE53
This is just a theory, but the reason why the EQ’s look like jelly beans is because of Tesla. Frankly, their corporate decision to mirror that was a mistake. They are chasing an imaginary attribute that has nothing to do with Tesla’s popularity. Mercedes would have done a lot better if they just electrified their current fleet.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 9,141
Likes: 4,630
From: Maryland
2024 S580
Tesla has nowhere to go but down IMO; they're still rolling on brand recognition right now but by and large a car buyer can do better elsewhere and eventually that's going to play out on the sales floor. At least among early EV adopters I know it already is; they're moving on to the various upstarts (Lucid, Rivian, etc) or switching to established brands and their offerings like the EQS, Taycan, etc. Tesla isn't the only game in town anymore, and it shows in my neighborhood.
The usual German luxury brands are certainly competitors even when not apples to apples, and that's unlikely to change. Porsche has a different focus and better heeled buyers. Audi has been gimped by the move to EV which has left some models dying on the vine awaiting their EV replacements. I think I'd go with BMW for now as the strongest old school competitor.
The usual German luxury brands are certainly competitors even when not apples to apples, and that's unlikely to change. Porsche has a different focus and better heeled buyers. Audi has been gimped by the move to EV which has left some models dying on the vine awaiting their EV replacements. I think I'd go with BMW for now as the strongest old school competitor.
Super Moderator
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,556
Likes: 3,680
From: Land of 10,000 lakes
AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
The reality is, most current Tesla owners (specifically Model S and X), are those who owned luxury vehicles like Mercedes-Benz and BMW, which indicates a significant shift in the market. Tesla has already surpassed Audi in global car sales in 2023 and soon will also outperform BMW and Mercedes-Benz. Hence, it's not simply a question of who Mbenz should fear; rather, they will soon find themselves trailing behind Tesla, according to car sales projections.
Unless Mbenz acts quickly by offering: 1. better technology, 2. more PHEV and EV options, and 3. again visually appealing vehicles just like the past, Tesla will continue to gain momentum.
We (the loyal Benz or BMW fans/community) may continue to dismiss Tesla's influence until they prove us wrong. Regardless of our personal biases, whether we acknowledge it or not, the facts indicate that Tesla is on track for success while BMW and Mercedes-Benz are experiencing a decline in popularity. We will continue to deny Tesla until Tesla overtakes the market and until most of current fans switch to Tesla. Facts are facts.. u can deny it, but trends and facts indicate that Tesla will win soon and is already winning.
Unless Mbenz acts quickly by offering: 1. better technology, 2. more PHEV and EV options, and 3. again visually appealing vehicles just like the past, Tesla will continue to gain momentum.
We (the loyal Benz or BMW fans/community) may continue to dismiss Tesla's influence until they prove us wrong. Regardless of our personal biases, whether we acknowledge it or not, the facts indicate that Tesla is on track for success while BMW and Mercedes-Benz are experiencing a decline in popularity. We will continue to deny Tesla until Tesla overtakes the market and until most of current fans switch to Tesla. Facts are facts.. u can deny it, but trends and facts indicate that Tesla will win soon and is already winning.
Tesla has now made price cuts in fear of other attractive EV options in that $50k-$75k segment. The Koreans also can do scale and their quality easily exceed the one from Tesla which is also very vulnerable to Chinese competitors (Mercedes not at all).
If VAG finally gets their software in order, they will pump out large quantities of low priced EV’s.
It will be interesting to see how the EV truck market shapes up but to me Tesla is nothing but a car company and they behave now in very predictable ways.
Last edited by Wolfman; May 20, 2023 at 06:21 PM.
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 516
Likes: 176
a
What brand does MB fear the most, when it comes to losing customers? Is it BMW or has it evolved to Tesla or Genesis? I’m sure at one time at least, it must have been Lexus. Does it bother them more to lose out to another European brand or does it really fry them when a customer jumps to an Asian or American brand? What really pisses them off these days, if anything? Just curious?
There is a guy on this forum trying to decide between a GLS and a Mazda...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 9,141
Likes: 4,630
From: Maryland
2024 S580
This is a flawed argument and a questionable chart. While we are discussing luxury cars, Tesla sales are 97% Model 3/Y. Model S and X have dropped in sales for years and now cost a fraction of their previous prices. The Plaid after all was more or less their roadster glory shot and now only comes with a $20k+ premium.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,180
Likes: 969
From: Costco
2025 AMG GT 63, 2023 S500, 2022 GLE53
The only reason Teslas are really desirable right now, at least from my semi-educated perspective, is their charging network. They got that right. Volkswagen’s Electrify America is a failure. The traditional automakers aren’t looking at it from the right perspective.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 9,141
Likes: 4,630
From: Maryland
2024 S580
It goes beyond that. They have a high tech appeal that really resonates with people, its like the Apple of the car world. I personally don't care for them, but I understand the appeal. My wife would MUCH rather have a Tesla than any luxury car.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,180
Likes: 969
From: Costco
2025 AMG GT 63, 2023 S500, 2022 GLE53
Not for me. Anyone who does any inkling of research will quickly realize how Tesla’s supercharger network is vastly superior to anything out there. When charging is the begin all and be all when it comes to evs, it’s not that hard to cost/benefit your way to a Tesla, regardless of the looks. That’s one thing the traditional automakers just don’t realize. The fuel is the end all and be all to daily operating these things.
