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I usually watch good football commercials but as of late I've not heard MB commercials using the slogan "The best or nothing" lately. It needs to be changed to "our accountants are better than your accountants".
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
Originally Posted by W205C43PFL
Another brand that was discussed quite often on the forums but not a luxury brand, so more on the premium side is Mazda, and they are trying to compete by moving upmarket, evident of inline 6 and the CX90.
Oh, last but not least there is also Volvo, less luxury more premium type of brand now. Polestar (not the Polestar engineered Volvo line) is a different story I guess.
I would definitely consider Volvo, if it wasn’t Chinese owned.
I would definitely consider Volvo, if it wasn’t Chinese owned.
When we listed all those brands (options) we thought we had a lot to work with, turns out after going through each brand, we still need more competition at the end of the day. I mean the more competition the better in general for consumers. So basically we are back to the drawing board and back to the S-Class.
I think geely acquired them back in 2010 or something. They do still have cars made in the Swedish factory but other than that... there are many models not made in Sweden. The company itself is owned by geely and geely only including Polestar. Since we are talking about geely, I guess Mercedes sold smart to geely as well?
I think geely acquired them back in 2010 or something. They do still have cars made in the Swedish factory but other than that... there are many models not made in Sweden. The company itself is owned by geely and geely only including Polestar. Since we are talking about geely, I guess Mercedes sold smart to geely as well?
All this time I didn't understand what you meant by Geely. I see you are stating it as a company. Never heard of it.
Last edited by MBS63AMG; May 30, 2023 at 08:23 PM.
When we listed all those brands (options) we thought we had a lot to work with, turns out after going through each brand, we still need more competition at the end of the day. I mean the more competition the better in general for consumers. So basically we are back to the drawing board and back to the S-Class.
I hope so. I can't take any more heartache at my age.
Certainly not with the G90. That car is a dud.
I congratulate Hyundai for playing the long game and their persistence but at this rate they are likely loosing significant money on each car.
In 2022 they aimed to triple their G90 sales by 2023 with their new model; not happening...
Check the brand sales figures on carsalesbase and goodcarbadcar.
Back to MB for a second.... now they have Mythos... on top of Maybach, they were trying to compete with Rolls-Royce with Maybach but given how they claim Mythos is the super luxury version of Maybach, I guess they will have a real Rolls-Royce competitor then?
The market segment makes sense - MB as a brand doesn't play at the levels of Bentley and RR. Maybach doesn't seem to have caught fire. Will MB be any more successful with Mythos than they were with Maybach? I am not putting any money on MB.
Check the brand sales figures on carsalesbase and goodcarbadcar.
Well they did add two SUV’s in the last couple years, that definitely helps, before that they only sold 3 sedans, two of which were in a low selling class of cars (G80/90).
I like the wife’s GV70, but we were left unimpressed with our dealer for warranty work. We are not returning there, the sales process was great, but service is underwhelming compared to our Benz’s and Bimmers. Hopefully the next dealer will take care of us better. The car has not been very unproblematic, but we did have two different electrical glitches which required service visits, one of which the complimentary valet service (which Genesis advertises greatly as a benefit for their cars) was denied. While not a chore to get the car to the dealer, I would like to be given a service that I technically bought.
Check the brand sales figures on carsalesbase and goodcarbadcar.
This is where this statistic came from. Genesis is doing a lot of things right but I don’t think they will make quick inroads on the high end.
You are also making an assumption that MB is focusing on market share and thus are failing with stronger competition.
Yet, for better or worse, MB has made it clear that their strategy is to dominate on branding, margins and profitability.
That means they will manage pricing, model selection, output and options packaging for maximum Dollar.
So far it’s paying off but I feel they better up their design game on their EV’s. They desperately need new, better looking models.
I was out of town and missed the responses to this
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I on the other hand never considered getting a Lexus In my book the S-Class has always been a better car, so why settle for less.
Not trying to be facetious but I have never cared for the interior or exterior designs and certainly not the way the cars ride. That is from the LS400 to today. I appreciated the innovations 30 some years ago and how they reverse engineered and improved on the competition for less money. Clearly a winning formula for them but feel they also stopped innovating decades ago, perhaps for the sake of reliability. It certainly woke up Mercedes and improved the competition and pricing of cars from that point on.
Because $35,000 is $35,000 lol. The S Class is the better car, but its a question of value. A Bentley or RR is a better car than the S Class, so why settle for less? You can always make an argument that you are settling for less than something.
I agree with your assessment of Lexus currently, they have lost their way entirely, but there was a time when they truly did make a car that was a peer to the S Class, but that time is past.
Originally Posted by Frenetic
My father-in-law is a Lexus geek and will probably drive his 2018 LS until it dies, but I just don’t think they are in the sane ballpark. I’ve driven in both and while Lexus does insulate well, their engines and technology leave a lot to be desired. Lexus needs to resurrect the Supra straight six and build a V8 TT worthy of a flagship.
That LS is not in the same ballpark, but an LS430 compared to a W220? Even an LS460 compared to a W221? I would argue the 2017 LS460L I traded on my S560 could hang with it despite being a design that dated back to 2007. LS500 is a disaster.
Originally Posted by S_W222
I agree if the baseline for this assessment is based on the current and last few generations. However, for the LS and S-class generations that were around 2002 or so, I owned the 2002 Lexus LS430 and 2004 S550 "W220" at the same time... honestly the LS430 ride was way superior to the S550, more quite and the drive was much smoother. Admittedly, that may not be fare because the LS430 is arguable the best Lexus sedan they've ever made, and likely the Mbenz W220 generation is the worst S-class ever... but just saying there was a time when the LS was superior to the S-class in many aspects. Nowadays? S-class wins hands down for sure.
Agreed.
Originally Posted by Streamliner
WHEN Genesis gets their dealer infrastructure in place and if and when Lexus gets back to sanity, they will give German companies a run for their money.
I dunno, I think the Germans will always be dominant, but Genesis can carve out a niche for themselves without question. Lots of buyers abandoned by Lexus like you and me.
Holy crap, I can't believe I forgot to mention Volvo. For several years, my local MB dealership only sold MBs and Volvos and I always placed them in the high-end car choices when I was growing up in the 60s and 70s. They were always the red headed, freckled beauty in their day and now they have really stepped up in the design department as the latest flagships have made major improvements.
Wait... your MB dealerships sells Volvos? How come
The market segment makes sense - MB as a brand doesn't play at the levels of Bentley and RR. Maybach doesn't seem to have caught fire. Will MB be any more successful with Mythos than they were with Maybach? I am not putting any money on MB.
It will be interesting to see for sure. Now we need MB to actually have a production Mythos based vehicle ready.
Well they did add two SUV’s in the last couple years, that definitely helps, before that they only sold 3 sedans, two of which were in a low selling class of cars (G80/90).
I like the wife’s GV70, but we were left unimpressed with our dealer for warranty work. We are not returning there, the sales process was great, but service is underwhelming compared to our Benz’s and Bimmers. Hopefully the next dealer will take care of us better. The car has not been very unproblematic, but we did have two different electrical glitches which required service visits, one of which the complimentary valet service (which Genesis advertises greatly as a benefit for their cars) was denied. While not a chore to get the car to the dealer, I would like to be given a service that I technically bought.
Looks like they realized Americans love SUVs, I guess better late than never. I am not an SUV type of person but that is what Americans want and that is what they should deliver as well. Even exotics and ultra luxuries as you know came out with SUVs after holding on for so long, first the Urus then the Cullinan now the Purosangue.
Hmmm, that is disappointing, what was the basis for the complimentary valet service to be declined?
Looks like they realized Americans love SUVs, I guess better late than never. I am not an SUV type of person but that is what Americans want and that is what they should deliver as well. Even exotics and ultra luxuries as you know came out with SUVs after holding on for so long, first the Urus then the Cullinan now the Purosangue.
Hmmm, that is disappointing, what was the basis for the complimentary valet service to be declined?
I don't remember the exact reason as my wife dealt with them while I was out of the country, but they were trying to insist that it could only be used for certain services and that they would not drop a loaner off and stuff like that despite that literally being the purpose and way that the concierge service is supposed to work.
Because $35,000 is $35,000 lol. The S Class is the better car, but it’a a question of value. A Bentley or RR is a better car than the S Class, so why settle for less? You can always make an argument that you are settling for less than something.
Except the RR or Bentley aren’t better cars. Traditionally and with the W223, they are more bespoke, feature finer materials and more exclusive options but are technically a step or several behind.
As for value, to me it is more than money. It is also a peace of mind in active and passive safety.
Except the RR or Bentley aren’t better cars. Traditionally and with the W223, they are more bespoke, feature finer materials and more exclusive options but are technically a step or several behind.
I don't agree the RR and Bentley are not better cars, they better cars in many ways. Like I said, I don't feel my S560 is a dramatically better car than my LS460L it replaced, and I don't find the W223 as compelling as my W222. Sitting in the new 7 and a W223 back to back, the new 7 blows it away inside and its $20,000 cheaper.
As for value, to me it is more than money. It is also a peace of mind in active and passive safety.
Lexus has all the same active and passive safety, as do BMW and Audi and Genesis. Don't get me wrong, i would rather have the Mercedes, but I don't think its so dramatically better than the competition to quantifiably justify the price difference, especially the W223. Its the same argument vs Bentley and RR, is a RR Ghost worth $200,000 more than an S Class? or $150,000 more than a Maybach? Not in any way that you could justify in a quantifiable way. If you offered someone a RR Ghost or an S Class though, almost everybody would take the Ghost.
I agree with that completely, except while I'd take the Ghost, I'd sell it. Obviously an opinion here, but RR has gone off the rails with their excess in styling. It's become a vulgar caricature of itself, and that's never a good thing, no matter what you're talking about. Put the Spirit of Ecstasy on a more tasteful shape and you've made a better car that I might consider. If I had more money that is, I don't have the ching for RR. But right now, in that hypothetical, I take the RR and it goes off to consignment.
I agree with that completely, except while I'd take the Ghost, I'd sell it. Obviously an opinion here, but RR has gone off the rails with their excess in styling. It's become a vulgar caricature of itself, and that's never a good thing, no matter what you're talking about. Put the Spirit of Ecstasy on a more tasteful shape and you've made a better car that I might consider. If I had more money that is, I don't have the ching for RR. But right now, in that hypothetical, I take the RR and it goes off to consignment.
I also think that with a Rolls or a Bentley there's a bigger target on your back too. With that being said, I always loved the look on people's faces when I rolled up someplace in that S class I had years ago........long hair and tattoos
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.
In my book the S-Class has always been a better car, so why settle for less.
