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Probably, I still have it on my S560 and never use it, however this one has pedestrian recognition, which to me is a plus if you drive at night, but we almost don't do it
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I am well aware of suppliers screwing up, German ones as well. Our brand new BMW M8 had a non-working AC, virtually the same as all other ones during the early build cycle. We found out once it got warm and the car was unusable in the summer. BMW literally pulled the AC compressors out of other 8 Series models on the showroom to fix customer cars. This was a supplier issue.
BMW made it right; we got compensation because we bothered to ask for it but the on Bimmerpost people were not forecasting the end of BMW because of declining quality. This was significantly worse than most issues on the W223 (streamliners dangerous break-down notwithstanding) but people understood that this can happen.
I personally wouldn't hesitate getting a W223 but everyone can make up their own mind. I am optimistic because the large percentage of these issues appears software related.
In forum member streamliner's case, it was a defective voltage converter or was it just the software?
The first was the hotspot didn't work, this was fixed in a software update.
The second was I suddenly developed a number of errors, primarily for driver aids. It turns out these are disabled when your tire pressure goes below the spec. I had my car in storage, the weather had cooled in my absence, the pressure had been set at exactly the minimum for the best possible ride, the cooling weather found me slightly under when I got back to the car. Soon after I started driving I got the errors; I had low tire pressure immediately but when I checked I was only 1 lb under and figured I'd hit it when I stopped for gas. I made an appointment to get it looked at but before that came I aired up when I got gas and lo and behold the errors were gone.
My door handles have never failed. I find them a pointless gimmick but I have to admit I like the cool factor. I also have no problem whatsoever poppping them open with a modest pressure in the center, they come right out every time. I do think they are poorly explained and many don't understand why they retract under certain conditions. Or that having the key too close can cause them to reset into the retract mode until manually opened with the fob or by pressing or swiping the handle. No one explained it to me, I had to figure it out and I think it's something Mercedes really should have the sales people carefully walking people through it: The handles and locking both; to make sure they understand what these systems are doing and why.
So that brings up the 12v battery drain... Most people are fixing this just by getting the fob away from the car or putting it in a cage. This is not an S-Class specific problem, many cars have issues depending on the setup. Having a tender is not unusual with Porsche, trust me. Jag, you bet. Both get better if you get the key out of contact with the car but some people refuse to do it. My last BMW was an E92; that one disconnected the alternator during sporty driving. Guess how I drove it? That thing lived on a charger. GM was one of the first to go to keyless. You had to put your C6 into reverse or the battery would be dead in short order. I had it happen twice at the valet even though I told them they absolutely had to put it into reverse, which of course they ignored. You get the idea; there can be a issues with keyless depending on what they're trying to do with it and other car specific factors. Realistically, it shouldn't be a problem; you should have the fob in a Faraday cage to help prevent theft. You can read about how they do it elsewhere if you're interested but it's enough to say for this conversation that if you do what you should probably be doing anyway the problem tends to go away. Not just with this car, it magically fixes a lot of them.
I think going back to the start that some of the issues with this car are that we don't understand it; there's a lot of tech, some new tech, and you need to put in the time. There are several things that would have had me scratching my head if I hadn't read about them here before my car arrived. The tire pressure causing faults, how am I supposed to know that? When I told the dealer, they didn't know either. No one told me how they handles work or why they do what they do, I got some from reading the manual, some from folks here, the rest I figured out on my own. The wisdom of creating a door handle that requires skills to interact with is lost on me but I do know once you understand them they work fine.
It's not perfect, there are problems, there are things I don't like. The calculus doesn't change for all that. To me, this cars' superpower is just taking me down the road and making me not give a damn about anything. The 1001 safeties are watching out, my butt is heated, cooled, massaged. The stereo truly rocks. When it's not the silence is golden. That aspect of this car is masterfully done. I may move on because I like to switch it up but if I decide to stay in one of these luxo barges I don't know what else I would buy? The S8 feels old to me, the 7 has a face a mother might smother, the Panamera isn't really playing the same game and I left there because I'm getting too old to sit that low on a daily basis. You've got Bentley, that's within my range but not without sacrificing somewhere else. The RR is too much for my poor buttocks, not just in ching but I like a lower profile. The Genesis... I'm not convinced, although I like a lot of what I see there as long as you put a paper bag over the grill and swap out the overwrought wheels. If I decide to reload on a luxo-ride I think I would go S Class again and I would not have any fears about pulling that trigger.
Depends on when lease maturity is, either buy it out or wait for the W223 facelift?
Its a 4 year lease but I usually trade out after 3 years, 3 years would be this October. So i could let the lease ride until October 2024, which is what I would do. With rates like they are no sense in buying it out early. Will just have to decide what to do about an extended warranty, I'm at 38,000 miles now so 12k left on the warranty which for me is about 10 months.
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I personally wouldn't hesitate getting a W223 but everyone can make up their own mind. I am optimistic because the large percentage of these issues appears software related.
If I didn't already have an excellent 222 that I was really happy with, I wouldn't either.
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Originally Posted by crabman
I've had two issues:
The first was the hotspot didn't work, this was fixed in a software update.
The second was I suddenly developed a number of errors, primarily for driver aids. It turns out these are disabled when your tire pressure goes below the spec. I had my car in storage, the weather had cooled in my absence, the pressure had been set at exactly the minimum for the best possible ride, the cooling weather found me slightly under when I got back to the car. Soon after I started driving I got the errors; I had low tire pressure immediately but when I checked I was only 1 lb under and figured I'd hit it when I stopped for gas. I made an appointment to get it looked at but before that came I aired up when I got gas and lo and behold the errors were gone.
My door handles have never failed. I find them a pointless gimmick but I have to admit I like the cool factor. I also have no problem whatsoever poppping them open with a modest pressure in the center, they come right out every time. I do think they are poorly explained and many don't understand why they retract under certain conditions. Or that having the key too close can cause them to reset into the retract mode until manually opened with the fob or by pressing or swiping the handle. No one explained it to me, I had to figure it out and I think it's something Mercedes really should have the sales people carefully walking people through it: The handles and locking both; to make sure they understand what these systems are doing and why.
So that brings up the 12v battery drain... Most people are fixing this just by getting the fob away from the car or putting it in a cage. This is not an S-Class specific problem, many cars have issues depending on the setup. Having a tender is not unusual with Porsche, trust me. Jag, you bet. Both get better if you get the key out of contact with the car but some people refuse to do it. My last BMW was an E92; that one disconnected the alternator during sporty driving. Guess how I drove it? That thing lived on a charger. GM was one of the first to go to keyless. You had to put your C6 into reverse or the battery would be dead in short order. I had it happen twice at the valet even though I told them they absolutely had to put it into reverse, which of course they ignored. You get the idea; there can be a issues with keyless depending on what they're trying to do with it and other car specific factors. Realistically, it shouldn't be a problem; you should have the fob in a Faraday cage to help prevent theft. You can read about how they do it elsewhere if you're interested but it's enough to say for this conversation that if you do what you should probably be doing anyway the problem tends to go away. Not just with this car, it magically fixes a lot of them.
I think going back to the start that some of the issues with this car are that we don't understand it; there's a lot of tech, some new tech, and you need to put in the time. There are several things that would have had me scratching my head if I hadn't read about them here before my car arrived. The tire pressure causing faults, how am I supposed to know that? When I told the dealer, they didn't know either. No one told me how they handles work or why they do what they do, I got some from reading the manual, some from folks here, the rest I figured out on my own. The wisdom of creating a door handle that requires skills to interact with is lost on me but I do know once you understand them they work fine.
It's not perfect, there are problems, there are things I don't like. The calculus doesn't change for all that. To me, this cars' superpower is just taking me down the road and making me not give a damn about anything. The 1001 safeties are watching out, my butt is heated, cooled, massaged. The stereo truly rocks. When it's not the silence is golden. That aspect of this car is masterfully done. I may move on because I like to switch it up but if I decide to stay in one of these luxo barges I don't know what else I would buy? The S8 feels old to me, the 7 has a face a mother might smother, the Panamera isn't really playing the same game and I left there because I'm getting too old to sit that low on a daily basis. You've got Bentley, that's within my range but not without sacrificing somewhere else. The RR is too much for my poor buttocks, not just in ching but I like a lower profile. The Genesis... I'm not convinced, although I like a lot of what I see there as long as you put a paper bag over the grill and swap out the overwrought wheels. If I decide to reload on a luxo-ride I think I would go S Class again and I would not have any fears about pulling that trigger.
Interesting, I thought that tire pressure causes a bunch of errors was an EQS exclusive thing, I don't recall reading about this similar issue on the W223 sub-forum.
Had to agree that MB should had properly educated their SA and the SA to educate the customers with all this new technology, especially when it is not straightforward.
About the key, faraday cage works should also make sure the spare key gets the same treatment but modern MB keys turn off after inactivity and no movement so shouldn't had been an issue based on that, unless the key stays on as long as it senses the car? Confused because that is not in a lot of forum members' experience, for example they were able to lock their key inside the vehicle because the car went to sleep when the ignition is not on allowing the car to be locked, so leaves me to think that as long as ignition is off and the doors are locked, the key will eventually enter sleep mode so the car should not be staying awake to ping a nearby key that is now invisible? I guess the easiest way to find out and place key near vehicle but lock it, leave it there for a while and then don't touch the key but try to unlock the vehicle, does it allow you?
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Originally Posted by SW20S
Its a 4 year lease but I usually trade out after 3 years, 3 years would be this October. So i could let the lease ride until October 2024, which is what I would do. With rates like they are no sense in buying it out early. Will just have to decide what to do about an extended warranty, I'm at 38,000 miles now so 12k left on the warranty which for me is about 10 months.
If I didn't already have an excellent 222 that I was really happy with, I wouldn't either.
I see hopefully by then facelift W223 has be announced and so you can place an order so MBUSA probably lets you extend your lease that way, and if the vehicle arrives and you like it then good, if not then just buyout the lease but by placing an order and extending your lease, you give yourself even more time to decide what do you really want.
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Originally Posted by tx170754
Probably, I still have it on my S560 and never use it, however this one has pedestrian recognition, which to me is a plus if you drive at night, but we almost don't do it
Forgot but does it detect animals as well to prevent hitting them? Like does the pedestrian recongnition really is about recognizing moving objects just that humans are one of them or it only recongnize humans, like the computer needs to see a head with eyes, nose, hair, shoulder, elbow, leg and their feet with shoes (well... um you get the idea)
No, the door will remain locked even with the fob in communication and the handles extended if you walk away, a fob must be in close proximity to allow an unlock. A number of the attributes of keyless systems are mandated by law; it's why close proximity is required for unlock, the car wont shut down while it's running if the fob is no longer detected, etc. It's been a while since I've read up on it but there were many legal hurdles to jump in order to get keyless up and running and so much of it is fleshed out in regulation which is why the systems are more similar than different.
The fob doesn't shut down when it's in range of the car, regardless of activity for an unknown time period, The car doesn't shut down when it's in range of the fob for some time, in both cases maybe not at all. To get a complete shutdown in the near term it needs to be locked and have no associated fob in range. What I can say is several people right here have fixed their door handles not opening up by moving the fob away or caging it. The handles timer out and close after the key is in range for a while and no door is opened, once it does they will not extend without manual intervention with the fob or by touching the handles. Even if they never open and they detect a fob in range for too long they do this because the car stops looking for a fob to come into proximity to extend the handles to save battery. Again, you must manually open with the fob or touch the handle with the fob in proximity.
Also several here have tried to get a complete shutdown and failed with the fob in range, even leaving it locked overnight. You have to get it out of range to get it to reset. This is how you clear those errors when your tires go under pressure, the car resets when it shuts down. If you don't move the fob it wont do it though and you'll keep starting it up and having the same errors until you get the fob out of range.
This is common with most cars and mostly a function of the range, as near as I can tell. I had an early system on a Cadillac that had battery issues and I had been leaving the car in the garage with the fob in the cup holder. I was told to move it out so the car could shut down and yeah, all I had to do was move it to the bench 10 feet or so from the car and the problem went away. But that system had weak transmitters and that's all the distance I needed. I cant give you numbers I don't know, but yeah, the car is staying awake for quite a while at the least, and possibly as long as a fob is in range. I don't know the numbers here but my own car specifically; it went into low battery when it was getting ceramic coated in almost exactly 24 hours with the key next to the car. I had no problems at home with it caged either before, or after. It's a thing.
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Originally Posted by crabman
No, the door will remain locked even with the fob in communication and the handles extended if you walk away, a fob must be in close proximity to allow an unlock. A number of the attributes of keyless systems are mandated by law; it's why close proximity is required for unlock, the car wont shut down while it's running if the fob is no longer detected, etc. It's been a while since I've read up on it but there were many legal hurdles to jump in order to get keyless up and running and so much of it is fleshed out in regulation which is why the systems are more similar than different.
The fob doesn't shut down when it's in range of the car, regardless of activity for an unknown time period, The car doesn't shut down when it's in range of the fob for some time, in both cases maybe not at all. To get a complete shutdown in the near term it needs to be locked and have no associated fob in range. What I can say is several people right here have fixed their door handles not opening up by moving the fob away or caging it. The handles timer out and close after the key is in range for a while and no door is opened, once it does they will not extend without manual intervention with the fob or by touching the handles. Even if they never open and they detect a fob in range for too long they do this because the car stops looking for a fob to come into proximity to extend the handles to save battery. Again, you must manually open with the fob or touch the handle with the fob in proximity.
Also several here have tried to get a complete shutdown and failed with the fob in range, even leaving it locked overnight. You have to get it out of range to get it to reset. This is how you clear those errors when your tires go under pressure, the car resets when it shuts down. If you don't move the fob it wont do it though and you'll keep starting it up and having the same errors until you get the fob out of range.
This is common with most cars and mostly a function of the range, as near as I can tell. I had an early system on a Cadillac that had battery issues and I had been leaving the car in the garage with the fob in the cup holder. I was told to move it out so the car could shut down and yeah, all I had to do was move it to the bench 10 feet or so from the car and the problem went away. But that system had weak transmitters and that's all the distance I needed. I cant give you numbers I don't know, but yeah, the car is staying awake for quite a while at the least, and possibly as long as a fob is in range. I don't know the numbers here but my own car specifically; it went into low battery when it was getting ceramic coated in almost exactly 24 hours with the key next to the car. I had no problems at home with it caged either before, or after. It's a thing.
Forgot but does it detect animals as well to prevent hitting them? Like does the pedestrian recongnition really is about recognizing moving objects just that humans are one of them or it only recongnize humans, like the computer needs to see a head with eyes, nose, hair, shoulder, elbow, leg and their feet with shoes (well... um you get the idea)
Just curious but did the W222 have growing pains early in the model cycle for anyone that went through it? I’m not giving MB a pass—and if anyone knows me here I’m far from an MB apologist—but I’m just curious if people compare the two based more on subjectively fond nostalgia than a more realistic apples to apples comparison. Or, is it more a product of the forums itself where more people use them now versus say 10+ years ago?
But yes, anecdotally, the forums for newer models tend to be littered with issues.
The W222 was one of the outstanding MB's in terms of reliability from the get-go but there were some issues, like on every model...
The biggest one was wind noise on the driver side (requiring new seals and/or door adjustments). The MY15 dropped the keypad and got the touchpad. That one overheated or became non-responsive - software fix. Some non-aligned trims provided some fodder for the "quality is dropping" conversations.
This of course was enough for Consumer Reports to say that the W222 S-Class was a car to stay away from.
Then we had the usual comments of how MB had lost their way after the W221, how less German the car looked; especially in light of the initial designs coming from a Korean designer (who coincidentally is now VP of the Genesis design group).
That said, member interaction in these forums have changed a lot since 2013 and one can only wonder how these posts would look if launched today. Same as on social media and elsewhere...
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
My 2015 S550, 2018 S560 & 2020 S560 were near flawless, with the exception of the jerking transmission in my 2020, which resulted in MBUSA buying the car back, much to my disappointment. As I have been very vocal about the issues with my 2022 S580, I had folks on the W222 forum suggesting that I might stop with my PRAISE for, I believe it was the 2018 S560. I'm not just a complainer, but when something isn't right, watch out!
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by tx170754
Where did you get a photo of....my car, including wheels ?
Ah yes, my beloved EIGHTEEN INCH wheels! The car had Exclusive Nappa, Magic Body Control, Warmth & Comfort, Driver's Assistance, etc. It was a fabulous car and in hindsight, I never should have let it go.
My 2015 S550, 2018 S560 & 2020 S560 were near flawless, with the exception of the jerking transmission in my 2020, which resulted in MBUSA buying the car back, much to my disappointment. As I have been very vocal about the issues with my 2022 S580, I had folks on the W222 forum suggesting that I might stop with my PRAISE for, I believe it was the 2018 S560. I'm not just a complainer, but when something isn't right, watch out!
My 2018 S560:
Stream, you have every right to express your concerns. You have had a terrible experience with your S580.
However, typically the ones with the negative experience voice their opinions much more vociferously than those who’ve had no material issues.
I hope that readers of this forum realize that there are many of us who are thrilled with the W223. I love my S580 and often think that it is truly one of the finest automobiles I have ever owned (warts and all). I am still (after 16 months of ownership) looking for excuses to drive it everyday!
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by Bubba1
Stream, you have every right to express your concerns. You have had a terrible experience with your S580.
However, typically the ones with the negative experience voice their opinions much more vociferously than those who’ve had no material issues.
I hope that readers of this forum realize that there are many of us who are thrilled with the W223. I love my S580 and often think that it is truly one of the finest automobiles I have ever owned (warts and all). I am still (after 16 months of ownership) looking for excuses to drive it everyday!
I'm very happy for you and am looking forward to getting something that pleases me like that. Thanks!
Good point but as one who doesn't drive a W223, what I'm reading on this forum doesn't make me feel that I would really like to buy one today....
Putting our life at risk to having a failure, like Stream has, while driving in the front of of a semi at 65-70 mph.....hm !
Good point but as one who doesn't drive a W223, what I'm reading on this forum doesn't make me feel that I would really like to buy one today....
Putting our life at risk to having a failure, like Stream has, while driving in the front of of a semi at 65-70 mph.....hm !
This is precisely my point. Nothing like this was present when the 222 was launched, and while I totally agree there are lots of happy owners out there, it still gives me pause and should give anybody pause.
My 2021 W223 had a few software glitches in the beginning but all have since been corrected. The rumblings you hear regarding the W223 is mainly from a few members that have had some issues or just don't like the design / technology in the car. I am sure Streamliner is a good guy, and he has a right to his opinion, but he seems very picky with his cars. If I am correct, he has had issues and got out of two BMW 7 series, a 2020 s560 and now wants out of his W223. He may have valid reasons but I am sure I am not alone when I say I love my W223. I am coming on two years with the car and have put on over 25,000 miles. Streamliner I am not bashing you but I have read your criticisms for over 2 years now, and it is enough. We get it, you don't like the W223. If I remember correctly you were bashing the W223 even before you got one.
This forum has been overrun with a few who continually bash the car and frankly it has turned me off to this site. For the people that don't like it, sell it and move on. Really, life is too short.
Stream,
Just for my curiosity, is somebody from MB personally contacted you about your catastrophic failure yet ?
I used to be part of a US corporation larger then MB, well we took every customer complain very seriously we were flying engineers across the countries to meet that unhappy guy, his feedback was gold for us besides being exposed to the real issue he was dealing with.
Spain at 100F, South America at also100F, Australia, the same, on the field, name it !
I hope our MB friends do the same ! It supposed to be the "best or nothing, true ?"
My 2021 W223 had a few software glitches in the beginning but all have since been corrected. The rumblings you hear regarding the W223 is mainly from a few members that have had some issues or just don't like the design / technology in the car. I am sure Streamliner is a good guy, and he has a right to his opinion, but he seems very picky with his cars. If I am correct, he has had issues and got out of two BMW 7 series, a 2020 s560 and now wants out of his W223. He may have valid reasons but I am sure I am not alone when I say I love my W223. I am coming on two years with the car and have put on over 25,000 miles. Streamliner I am not bashing you but I have read your criticisms for over 2 years now, and it is enough. We get it, you don't like the W223. If I remember correctly you were bashing the W223 even before you got one.
This forum has been overrun with a few who continually bash the car and frankly it has turned me off to this site. For the people that don't like it, sell it and move on. Really, life is too short.
Jason.
Well, that is interesting, I'm paying 100 and some K for a flagship Mercedes, the almost new car is leaving me stranded in the middle of eventually huge traffic, then I should simply shut up, get rid of the car at a huge loss and live happily ever after !
MY question for you is what would you do if something like that would have happened to you with your family in it ?
Stream, you have every right to express your concerns. You have had a terrible experience with your S580.
However, typically the ones with the negative experience voice their opinions much more vociferously than those who’ve had no material issues.
I hope that readers of this forum realize that there are many of us who are thrilled with the W223. I love my S580 and often think that it is truly one of the finest automobiles I have ever owned (warts and all). I am still (after 16 months of ownership) looking for excuses to drive it everyday!
Same here, 12.5k miles on my '22 and I've had it since February of last year. Only issue was a sensor for the kick to open trunk needed to be replaced. They sell 10k+ S-Class' a year, double that of the 7er, and 5 times that of the LS and A/S8, so there's bound to be more issues reported.
06-04-2023, 01:05 PM
