W222 vs W223: And the winner is........
#101
Super Member
'' They sell 10k+ S-Class' a year, double that of the 7er, and 5 times that of the LS and A/S8, so there's bound to be more issues reported''
I don't know about other S Class forums from another countries but would be interesting to relate the percentage of the S cars sold here to the percentage of this forum complains, assuming this is the only US forum dealing with the S cars....
I may be wrong, but my assumption is that most of the S class owners in this country are not even part of this S class forum !
So, I have a problem buying your statistic.....but, you know, I may be wrong !
I don't know about other S Class forums from another countries but would be interesting to relate the percentage of the S cars sold here to the percentage of this forum complains, assuming this is the only US forum dealing with the S cars....
I may be wrong, but my assumption is that most of the S class owners in this country are not even part of this S class forum !
So, I have a problem buying your statistic.....but, you know, I may be wrong !
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Streamliner (06-05-2023)
#102
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AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
Those were typically S63 models, if memory serves.
Here is a video of a disgruntled owner…
#103
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Mercedes/Mazda/Genesis
'' They sell 10k+ S-Class' a year, double that of the 7er, and 5 times that of the LS and A/S8, so there's bound to be more issues reported''
I don't know about other S Class forums from another countries but would be interesting to relate the percentage of the S cars sold here to the percentage of this forum complains, assuming this is the only US forum dealing with the S cars....
I may be wrong, but my assumption is that most of the S class owners in this country are not even part of this S class forum !
So, I have a problem buying your statistic.....but, you know, I may be wrong !
I don't know about other S Class forums from another countries but would be interesting to relate the percentage of the S cars sold here to the percentage of this forum complains, assuming this is the only US forum dealing with the S cars....
I may be wrong, but my assumption is that most of the S class owners in this country are not even part of this S class forum !
So, I have a problem buying your statistic.....but, you know, I may be wrong !
#104
Super Member
Looks sad, but I'm wondering what is this in reality, there are at least two guys with cameras around and they're not there by chance .....
#105
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#106
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AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
Mercedes-AMG 222 S 63: engine may stall
In November 2015, a recall was issued for the Mercedes-AMG S 63 vehicles that were available for sale from 1 November 2014 to 30 September 2015. In these vehicles, software in the engine and transmission control units may cause the engine to stall when the vehicle is coasting to a stop – this may pose a hazard to the vehicle occupants and other road users
sorry. Am on the phone, poor copy/paste job from another site
Last edited by Wolfman; 06-05-2023 at 03:37 PM.
#107
Super Member
It's even worse in the UK. We get to decide a total of 0 options unless you count colour options. The only choice comes in car variant; do you want Premium, Premium Plus or Premium Plus Executive. None of these variants include Burmester 4d etc
#108
Super Member
Interesting, I was driving a 2015 A8 and a 2013 SL550 by then and I was really happy with both cars.
Im imagine how happy those S63 owners were, but in reality of it was software related that was an easy fix.
I don't know if you guys remember the first" Bangle butt " BMW 7 Series, they used a Microsoft software, which was a disaster in the beginning, BMW issued a recall, fixed the software and that car was one of the best cars cars we ever had, they also extended the bumper to bumper warranty by two years and the Idrive ( mostly hated in the beginning ) became a benchmark in the automotive industry, used even in our cars today.
Im imagine how happy those S63 owners were, but in reality of it was software related that was an easy fix.
I don't know if you guys remember the first" Bangle butt " BMW 7 Series, they used a Microsoft software, which was a disaster in the beginning, BMW issued a recall, fixed the software and that car was one of the best cars cars we ever had, they also extended the bumper to bumper warranty by two years and the Idrive ( mostly hated in the beginning ) became a benchmark in the automotive industry, used even in our cars today.
#109
tx170754 No one told you to shut up, I am sorry it came off that way. I feel for you and would be quite upset if in your situation. It's the people on this site that have constantly bashed the car since it came out and that is my frustration. There are people who love there W223 and that was my point.
Last edited by Martsman; 06-05-2023 at 03:55 PM.
#110
Super Member
Your are ok, no offense, and I don't think your post was sending that message, it is an open forum and I personally appreciate everybody's comments.
For me in order to understand somebody, let's say "chagrin", I'm trying to be in her/his shoes
For me in order to understand somebody, let's say "chagrin", I'm trying to be in her/his shoes
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
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Martsman (06-05-2023)
#111
MBWorld Fanatic!
Well, that is interesting, I'm paying 100 and some K for a flagship Mercedes, the almost new car is leaving me stranded in the middle of eventually huge traffic, then I should simply shut up, get rid of the car at a huge loss and live happily ever after !
MY question for you is what would you do if something like that would have happened to you with your family in it ?
MY question for you is what would you do if something like that would have happened to you with your family in it ?
At the end of the day, there are a lot of unhappy owners in this forum, its not just 5 people. Like I demonstrated the bulk of the threads on the front page are complaints, the W222 forum isn't like that, people seem to be on the whole more frustrated with this car than with the previous generation, and that concerns me. This is far and away the most expensive car in the class, and it would be a considerable jump in cost from my only 3 year old one just to get a comparable W223. For that I want to be really delighted with the car, and I'm concerned I would not be given what I see here. I don't want to be paying more than my first mortgage for a car that frustrates me. I don't think that's unreasonable.
#112
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Streamliner (06-05-2023)
#113
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Thats actually not the case. There had been quite a few instances where the cars would shut down the engine while driving, requiring the driver to try making it to the shoulder.8
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Streamliner (06-05-2023)
#114
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2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
My 2021 W223 had a few software glitches in the beginning but all have since been corrected. The rumblings you hear regarding the W223 is mainly from a few members that have had some issues or just don't like the design / technology in the car. I am sure Streamliner is a good guy, and he has a right to his opinion, but he seems very picky with his cars. If I am correct, he has had issues and got out of two BMW 7 series, a 2020 s560 and now wants out of his W223. He may have valid reasons but I am sure I am not alone when I say I love my W223. I am coming on two years with the car and have put on over 25,000 miles. Streamliner I am not bashing you but I have read your criticisms for over 2 years now, and it is enough. We get it, you don't like the W223. If I remember correctly you were bashing the W223 even before you got one.
This forum has been overrun with a few who continually bash the car and frankly it has turned me off to this site. For the people that don't like it, sell it and move on. Really, life is too short.
Jason.
This forum has been overrun with a few who continually bash the car and frankly it has turned me off to this site. For the people that don't like it, sell it and move on. Really, life is too short.
Jason.
BMW bought back THREE 750il sedans and an 850i. I know that many folks would have either put up with the defects or traded, taken a big loss and moved on, but that’s not me. I send back overcooked steaks, too!
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I’ve bought or leased 17 brand new MB’s. The only one, besides the S580, that I didn’t really care for was my 2014 ML350BT. I didn’t criticize it, as there was nothing wrong with it, I just didn’t care for it. So, I got rid of it and got another S Class. So you see, I don’t always complain, I only do so when something isn’t right.
I believe there is a setting on this site, where you can choose to not even see anything I post. You might want to look into that, because as long as things are wrong with an MB I’m driving, I’m going to continue to voice my displeasure. If you’d like to see some positive posts of mine, go over to R231 where I can’t stop gushing over my SL450 or W213 where I rave about our gorgeous E450 Wagon. In the meantime, enjoy your car.
I love 2 out of 3 MB’s we have. Don’t I get points for that?
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#115
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Stream,
Just for my curiosity, is somebody from MB personally contacted you about your catastrophic failure yet ?
I used to be part of a US corporation larger then MB, well we took every customer complain very seriously we were flying engineers across the countries to meet that unhappy guy, his feedback was gold for us besides being exposed to the real issue he was dealing with.
Spain at 100F, South America at also100F, Australia, the same, on the field, name it !
I hope our MB friends do the same ! It supposed to be the "best or nothing, true ?"
Just for my curiosity, is somebody from MB personally contacted you about your catastrophic failure yet ?
I used to be part of a US corporation larger then MB, well we took every customer complain very seriously we were flying engineers across the countries to meet that unhappy guy, his feedback was gold for us besides being exposed to the real issue he was dealing with.
Spain at 100F, South America at also100F, Australia, the same, on the field, name it !
I hope our MB friends do the same ! It supposed to be the "best or nothing, true ?"
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aypues (06-06-2023)
#116
Super Member
Yeah, fanboy nonsense.
At the end of the day, there are a lot of unhappy owners in this forum, its not just 5 people. Like I demonstrated the bulk of the threads on the front page are complaints, the W222 forum isn't like that, people seem to be on the whole more frustrated with this car than with the previous generation, and that concerns me. This is far and away the most expensive car in the class, and it would be a considerable jump in cost from my only 3 year old one just to get a comparable W223. For that I want to be really delighted with the car, and I'm concerned I would not be given what I see here. I don't want to be paying more than my first mortgage for a car that frustrates me. I don't think that's unreasonable.
At the end of the day, there are a lot of unhappy owners in this forum, its not just 5 people. Like I demonstrated the bulk of the threads on the front page are complaints, the W222 forum isn't like that, people seem to be on the whole more frustrated with this car than with the previous generation, and that concerns me. This is far and away the most expensive car in the class, and it would be a considerable jump in cost from my only 3 year old one just to get a comparable W223. For that I want to be really delighted with the car, and I'm concerned I would not be given what I see here. I don't want to be paying more than my first mortgage for a car that frustrates me. I don't think that's unreasonable.
If I would be you I would not get rid of your great, trouble free, 2020 and jump to a newer W223, unless by pure luck you can get a trouble free one. I still think that Mercedes due to some "circumstances" released a, not totally verified design. I used to work in that kind of business and sometimes we used to take calculated risks in order to do not miss the release date, that's life. I don't know how is in the automotive industry but a lot of our products were already sold, so imagine how happy a customer would be if the product wasn't delivered in time. So what would he do, he would go to the competition to get the product in time !
In terms of payments, since you're leasing, I would not pay more either, unless it make financially sense in terms of deductions...I don't finance and also don't lease, I pay my cars cash, yeah I know cars are a terrible investment, in fact they're not even and investment, they're just money thrown away.... because we like cars !
Just my 0.2
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Streamliner (06-05-2023)
#117
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Yes, twice now. I first tried to get them to take the car back last year. A very nice woman called from MBUSA and listened to all my complaints and said that my situation would be investigated. About six weeks later, I got a letter, in a hand addressed envelope, saying that my situation did not qualify for a buy-back. About three weeks ago, I got a call from a gentleman at MBUSA, going through the same process. I expect to receive a letter agreeing to a buy-back in another three weeks. My car has been out of service, for non-scheduled maintenance issues for almost 50 days. The threshold in California for Lemon Law eligibility is 30 days, so MBUSA knows what they must do, I’m just waiting for the wheels of justice to turn all the way.
There are two things here, as I see them !
Money and quality, if we pay such price for a car, even if it drives ( unfortunately not in your case ) that doesn't mean it is a quality car the way it should be. My 560 has an incredible drive, smooth and quiet. But for quite some time, since the dealer was clueless, I was chasing interior rattles by myself, after using felt on all the doors, pillars, dash, glove compartment, finally the center console was the culprit, felt it and now inside is it so quiet like in the Toledo cathedral in Spain !
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Streamliner (06-05-2023)
#118
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Sorry, looking at both forums the tenor of the postings is completely different. Level of owner satisfaction completely different. Of course there are problems everywhere, but we clearly have more unhappy owners in here than we ever had in the W222 forum. What happened to Stream leaving him stranded isn't the main example of my concern
![Wink](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
There were situations where the cars died on them at highway speeds. Definitely happened many more times than Streamliners scenario.
But overall there was no impact on reliability because they were rare incidences. The W222, as stated countless times, is a solid car.
Many of your posts appear critical though. I don’t believe anyone is forcing your hand into a W223.
I hope that the forum posts improve to your satisfaction when the time comes you are ready to move to the next car, which sounds like the facelift model.
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Interesting, what about the two other German luxury brands, is it the same, if it is, what about mainstream German brands or mainstream vehicles from other makes, I am wondering if it is more like a UK thing?
#120
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Interesting, I was driving a 2015 A8 and a 2013 SL550 by then and I was really happy with both cars.
Im imagine how happy those S63 owners were, but in reality of it was software related that was an easy fix.
I don't know if you guys remember the first" Bangle butt " BMW 7 Series, they used a Microsoft software, which was a disaster in the beginning, BMW issued a recall, fixed the software and that car was one of the best cars cars we ever had, they also extended the bumper to bumper warranty by two years and the Idrive ( mostly hated in the beginning ) became a benchmark in the automotive industry, used even in our cars today.
Im imagine how happy those S63 owners were, but in reality of it was software related that was an easy fix.
I don't know if you guys remember the first" Bangle butt " BMW 7 Series, they used a Microsoft software, which was a disaster in the beginning, BMW issued a recall, fixed the software and that car was one of the best cars cars we ever had, they also extended the bumper to bumper warranty by two years and the Idrive ( mostly hated in the beginning ) became a benchmark in the automotive industry, used even in our cars today.
#121
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Sorry, looking at both forums the tenor of the postings is completely different. Level of owner satisfaction completely different. Of course there are problems everywhere, but we clearly have more unhappy owners in here than we ever had in the W222 forum. What happened to Stream leaving him stranded isn't the main example of my concern
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hyperion667 (06-05-2023)
#122
Super Member
Driving 40k miles+ a year in a 130k+ USD car I want a good music experience, the standard Burmester 3D is LACKING compared to the higher end equivalents in my Ranges; maybe I should've mentioned the other issues such as only having 2/11 non-black interior colour choices, missing more than half the interior trim options, not being able to get rid of the gloss piano black on the centre console etc. Maybe those things don't upset you; for me having that variety and those options in my last 5 or 6 or however many S Class' made me happy
#123
MBWorld Fanatic!
Steve,
If I would be you I would not get rid of your great, trouble free, 2020 and jump to a newer W223, unless by pure luck you can get a trouble free one. I still think that Mercedes due to some "circumstances" released a, not totally verified design. I used to work in that kind of business and sometimes we used to take calculated risks in order to do not miss the release date, that's life. I don't know how is in the automotive industry but a lot of our products were already sold, so imagine how happy a customer would be if the product wasn't delivered in time. So what would he do, he would go to the competition to get the product in time !
In terms of payments, since you're leasing, I would not pay more either, unless it make financially sense in terms of deductions...I don't finance and also don't lease, I pay my cars cash, yeah I know cars are a terrible investment, in fact they're not even and investment, they're just money thrown away.... because we like cars !
Just my 0.2
If I would be you I would not get rid of your great, trouble free, 2020 and jump to a newer W223, unless by pure luck you can get a trouble free one. I still think that Mercedes due to some "circumstances" released a, not totally verified design. I used to work in that kind of business and sometimes we used to take calculated risks in order to do not miss the release date, that's life. I don't know how is in the automotive industry but a lot of our products were already sold, so imagine how happy a customer would be if the product wasn't delivered in time. So what would he do, he would go to the competition to get the product in time !
In terms of payments, since you're leasing, I would not pay more either, unless it make financially sense in terms of deductions...I don't finance and also don't lease, I pay my cars cash, yeah I know cars are a terrible investment, in fact they're not even and investment, they're just money thrown away.... because we like cars !
Just my 0.2
Sorry for bringing up relevant examples ![Wink](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
There were situations where the cars died on them at highway speeds. Definitely happened many more times than Streamliners scenario.
But overall there was no impact on reliability because they were rare incidences. The W222, as stated countless times, is a solid car.
Many of your posts appear critical though. I don’t believe anyone is forcing your hand into a W223.
I hope that the forum posts improve to your satisfaction when the time comes you are ready to move to the next car, which sounds like the facelift model.
![Wink](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
There were situations where the cars died on them at highway speeds. Definitely happened many more times than Streamliners scenario.
But overall there was no impact on reliability because they were rare incidences. The W222, as stated countless times, is a solid car.
Many of your posts appear critical though. I don’t believe anyone is forcing your hand into a W223.
I hope that the forum posts improve to your satisfaction when the time comes you are ready to move to the next car, which sounds like the facelift model.
Many of your posts appear to be apologizing for and rationalizing the issues MB is experiencing with this car. I don't own the car, I am just explaining that I see a legitimate issue here with this model.
#124
MBWorld Fanatic!
Actually I think the original idrive was hated mostly by journalist. We had the first one of those; the car was an utter reliability disaster due to CANBUS issues and their inability to successfully reprogram the car. The new GUI; we figured out in no time and there was still a lot of switchgear so you didn't get in there too much after the initial setup.
I think for journalist that get the car for a few hours in some cases, it was a lot harder to swallow.
I think for journalist that get the car for a few hours in some cases, it was a lot harder to swallow.
#125
Super Member
Last edited by UrBusted; 06-05-2023 at 05:52 PM.