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I can only speak from my personal experience but my 2020 BMW X5 M50i was flawless. Build quality was perfect and not one glitch or issue other than a weird gas pedal position that caused my leg to cramp, but I got used to that. I just wasn’t use to BMW’s gas pedal position and angle and I wasn’t the only one. One thing I miss the most was the luggage compartment package. It had raised rubber rails on the floor and it was like voodoo magic in that grocery bags wouldn’t tip over while driving.
The luggage compartment package is a pretty neat feature I haven't seen before with the automatic cargo cover
Yeah, those raised rubber rails were great; it made all the difference. I was going to buy a trunk liner, but after seeing how these things worked, I changed my mind.
Joking aside, I was looking at the GV80, after Stream post, and I'm really impressed, reliability and dealership network are probably roadblocks but if they get get over it they will really have a winner....remember Lexus ?
Joking aside, I was looking at the GV80, after Stream post, and I'm really impressed, reliability and dealership network are probably roadblocks but if they get get over it they will really have a winner....remember Lexus ?
Genesis is definitely stronger than Lexus in terms of style, performance, and luxury, its one of the reasons we chose the GV70. That being said, Lexus has two things which will keep customers coming back, reliability, and an excellent dealer and service network, the best I have ever dealt with, which strongly contrasts my Genesis service experience.
Luckily it seems Lexus is getting rid of the dealbreaker touchpad of their older models. That being said, I still think they peaked in the late 90's and early 2000's. I miss the old GS and LS especially those were excellent vehicles. That being said, the NX and RX seem to have everything that Lexus buyers care about, but Lexus needs to innovate, as resting on your laurels is never good.
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
Originally Posted by js_cls
Genesis is definitely stronger than Lexus in terms of style, performance, and luxury, its one of the reasons we chose the GV70. That being said, Lexus has two things which will keep customers coming back, reliability, and an excellent dealer and service network, the best I have ever dealt with, which strongly contrasts my Genesis service experience.
Luckily it seems Lexus is getting rid of the dealbreaker touchpad of their older models. That being said, I still think they peaked in the late 90's and early 2000's. I miss the old GS and LS especially those were excellent vehicles. That being said, the NX and RX seem to have everything that Lexus buyers care about, but Lexus needs to innovate, as resting on your laurels is never good.
Agreed. Between 1993 and 2011, I had eight, brand new, top line LS sedans. They were magnificent cars. Taking the car to Lexus Westminster for service, here in Orange County, was a pleasurable event! They had a uniformed hostess making complimentary coffee drinks, toasted bagels, donuts, and all sorts of snacks, etc. The huge lounge had multiple rooms with TV’s, reading materials & very comfortable seating. I always got a nearly new RX loaner.
Dealing with my need of a new vehicle currently, as I was falling asleep last night, I thought about those cars and my favorite was my 1997 LS400 with air suspension & Nakamichi audio. I would just LOVE to be able to go out & buy a brand new one of those today. The car was simple and to me, absolutely perfect! It was quick, extremely solid & had great ride quality. The LS460L’s that I had at the end were also favorites, but “Ol’ 97” was the best.
I believe that Toyota is still recovering from the disaster the company went through several years ago. I believe they will bring Lexus back to greatness in the future and frankly, I CAN’T WAIT!
Last edited by Streamliner; Jul 16, 2023 at 11:00 AM.
Our 98 LS400 is also a car that has never quite been equaled. My 17 LS460L with air was great, but nothing I have had is quite as well made and great at everything as that LS400 was, including my S560 (although it is close)
I honestly believe the W222, was a better car than the W223. The 223 has the advantage of being quieter, which is a huge thing for me, it has the available rear axle steering, which one pays dearly for in the USA if they want it, the 4D audio is a bit nicer than the 3D and the interior & exterior color choices are more varied, but honestly, THAT’S IT, at least for me.
After owning 2015, 2018 & 2020 S560’s and now my 2022 S580, here are my thoughts, MY OPINIONS:
1. The 222 was available with or without 4-Matic, something I don’t want or need, but is shoved down my throat in the 223. 2. The 222 was available with the truly magnificent Magic Body Control or "MBC." The much more expensive EABC, which replaced MBC, in comparison, is absolutely dismal in providing a comfortable ride. 3. The 222 was available with 18” to 20” wheels, while the 223 goes from 19’s to 21’s. The 21's on the 223 have proven to be a nightmare for many while I truly miss the 18” option. 4. The interior of the 222 was absolutely elegant in my opinion, while the 223, with its “hot-glued on” screens looks somewhat ridiculous in a luxury saloon. 5. The tech in the 222 was great and I believe it is still way good enough for 2023. Even though a touch screen has benefits, I much preferred the vast number of buttons, switches & knobs in the 222’s. The control “surfaces” in the 223 are annoying at best and to me, represent a significant CHEAPENING of the vehicle. In my 222, it was a simple push of a button to raise the car when entering a steep driveway or such. Raising the car in the 223 involves going into several menus and it's a pain in the ***. In addition, my 222's NEVER lost all of my settings, where my 223 CONSTANTLY loses everything that I so painstakingly programmed into it. 6. The post face lift 222 steering wheel was a beautiful delight in comparison to the black plastic one with the nearly" impossible to use by touch" controls in the 223’s. 7. Exterior door handles. Need I explain? 8. The wide opening doors on the 223, that require “gorilla” length arms to close and are constantly not holding and closing on my legs are a poor design compared to those in the 222’s. On a car the price of an S Class, the doors should stay put, WHATEVER distance they are opened to. 9. The “attention dots” in the 223 are a pain in the ***. 10. The marketing of the 223 in the USA is such that buyers are forced into expensive packages to get perhaps one little option they might want. 4-Zone Climate ONLY being available by spending a huge sum for the “made up” Executive Line is one example, not to mention the rear axle steering. 11. I found the seats in the 222’s to be reasonably more comfortable than those in the 223’s. The edges of the "loose look" cushions in my Exclusive Nappa Leather interior are wearing very quickly. 12. The headrests in the 223’s, with their CHINTZY pillows are truly crummy, when compared to the absolutely wonderful and supremely comfortable headrests in the 222’s. 13. The exterior of the 222's was elegant, compared to the attractive, but more mainstream looking 223. So many cars currently have taillights that are very similar to those on the 223. The 222 was more "special" looking.
14. The basic way the engine & transmission work together was much better in the 222's. The driveline in my 223 seems sloppy at times, especially around town, where you are on & off throttle a lot.
15. The 222 was a more enjoyable and a more comfortable car to drive. It was infinitely more dependable.
I agree with your well laid out assessment of the 222 v 223. I had a 2016, 2018 550 and 2020 560. I sold my 2020 for one reason which I think you missed. My 222 had transmission issues (which I learned was common) downshifting from 3 to 2 was less than smooth. It made me crazy. I bought a 2021 750i; drove it for a year and hated it. Went back to the S580. All of the issues you laid out are troubling. But, not sure what car to go to next. Any ideas?
I agree with your well laid out assessment of the 222 v 223. I had a 2016, 2018 550 and 2020 560. I sold my 2020 for one reason which I think you missed. My 222 had transmission issues (which I learned was common) downshifting from 3 to 2 was less than smooth. It made me crazy. I bought a 2021 750i; drove it for a year and hated it. Went back to the S580. All of the issues you laid out are troubling. But, not sure what car to go to next. Any ideas?
Two issues: first and most important, I drove it from Philly to Boca Raton FL and Key West - and put on about 3000 miles - mostly highway. I found it required more attention to keep it driving down the center of the highways and the seats were just not as comfortable.
And, while not the deal killer, I had an electronic problem which set the alarm off during the overnight hour while it was parked, killed my battery and then had the dealer in FL tell me there was a 10 day wait for the replacement part.
Interesting. While I can deal with some German car quirks, that would not be one of them.
Originally Posted by JSL555
And, while not the deal killer, I had an electronic problem which set the alarm off during the overnight hour while it was parked, killed my battery and then had the dealer in FL tell me there was a 10 day wait for the replacement part.
The seats in the 750 are what kept me out of it, very uncomfortable.
The seats in the new 7 are incredible.
All BMW seats are not as comfortable as Mercedes (at least S-class) seats. The seats in my X5 and X7 look good but not as comfortable as the W222. I would not say they are bad or not comfortable, but they are simply not as comfortable; Like below average or just average.
The most comfortable seats I've ever had are those in the Lexus LS 430; I once drove non stop from Missouri all the way to NC state.
As for Mbenz, not sure if it's al illusion or what, but the semi-aniline seats and design in my current S560 are more comfortable than the Nappa in my previous pre-facelift S550. I recall the S550 being comfortable (find, around just average) but I don't recall I'd refer to them as super comfortable as my current S560. The seminailine seats are certainly more cushiony and the leather is softer for sure.
I agree with your well laid out assessment of the 222 v 223. I had a 2016, 2018 550 and 2020 560. I sold my 2020 for one reason which I think you missed. My 222 had transmission issues (which I learned was common) downshifting from 3 to 2 was less than smooth. It made me crazy. I bought a 2021 750i; drove it for a year and hated it. Went back to the S580. All of the issues you laid out are troubling. But, not sure what car to go to next. Any ideas?
Im seriously considering a crossover/suv. I’m finding the quirks of the S580 do get tiring. I’m almost 1.5 years into ownership.
The door handles are really troublesome. My wife and I went out for dinner the other night…our car was parked on a fairly dark street. No imminent threat but a little uncomfortable. I unlocked the car with the key fob from about 20 yards, in anticipation of the door handles not working properly. We get to the car and the door handles jam. My wife keeps pulling (she got to the car first, a few feet ahead of me,the handles retreat. I had to pull the keys out and reopen. We get into the car she reaches for the door which has now extended fully out. Hurts her back because the door openings are so bad. She has to step out of the car pull the door back in then sit down.
I lock the doors from the inside, she says “what the f**k is going, what a stupid car. What if we needed to get in quickly?”
Otherwise, I’m pretty happy with the S580. But the way these door handles are designed and the door openings are driving me to distraction!
I’m considering the new Cayenne and some of the super suvs, Urus, AM, Bentayga. My knees aren’t what they used and something high up, with better ingress/egress visibility is what I’m looking for. Comfort is the number one priority and a little sportiness, and maybe a hybrid this time. Would love peoples opinions on these suvs??
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
Originally Posted by JSL555
I agree with your well laid out assessment of the 222 v 223. I had a 2016, 2018 550 and 2020 560. I sold my 2020 for one reason which I think you missed. My 222 had transmission issues (which I learned was common) downshifting from 3 to 2 was less than smooth. It made me crazy. I bought a 2021 750i; drove it for a year and hated it. Went back to the S580. All of the issues you laid out are troubling. But, not sure what car to go to next. Any ideas?
Well, you and I are on the same wavelength! I had a 2015 S550, 2018 S560 and a 2020 S560, all of which I ordered. The lease on my 2018 would have ended well after the W223’s were released, so I waited until pretty much the last minute and ordered the 2020, as I had a feeling that I was not going to care for the 223, based on early photos. My 2020 was fine to begin with, but developed a very harsh 3-2 downshift. I brought it into Fletcher Jones—the largest MB dealer in the country—and they tried to fix it, to no avail. Then, MBUSA instructed them to replace the transmission and torque converter, which they supposedly did. If anything, the issue got worse. They finally threw their hands up and said they could not fix it and MBUSA offered to buy the car back. I was very disappointed, to say the least.
I managed to string out the buy back, until I could get a 2022 S580, thinking & hoping that most of the bugs would have been exorcised from the 223’s by then, but my loaded S580 has been an absolute nightmare since I took delivery. Look at “My S580 STRANDED ME” thread for details. If you don’t happen to know, they are now buying my S580 back, which thrills me to no end.
As for what car next, right now, I am really leaning towards the Genesis G90. When the 2025 W223 receives the face lift, I will consider going back to MB. Or, if MB comes along with some substantial incentive dollars this time around, I may chance another one.
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
Originally Posted by S_W222
All BMW seats are not as comfortable as Mercedes (at least S-class) seats. The seats in my X5 and X7 look good but not as comfortable as the W222. I would not say they are bad or not comfortable, but they are simply not as comfortable. I'd see below average or average. The most comfortable seats I've ever had are those in the Lexus LS 430. Am not sure if it's al illusion or what, but the semi-aniline seats and design in my current S560 are more comfortable than the Nappa in my previous pre-facelift S550. I recall the S550 being comfortable (find, around just average) but I don't recall I'd refer to them as super comfortable as my current S560. The seminailine seats are certainly more cushiony and the leather is softer for sure.
After almost 1.5 years in the S580, I can truthfully say that the seats in all three of my W222’s were more comfortable. In addition the “two cushion” design of the seats, has my driver’s seat showing wear at the edges at 12K miles. Not good.
All BMW seats are not as comfortable as Mercedes (at least S-class) seats. The seats in my X5 and X7 look good but not as comfortable as the W222. I would not say they are bad or not comfortable, but they are simply not as comfortable. I'd see below average or average. The most comfortable seats I've ever had are those in the Lexus LS 430. Am not sure if it's al illusion or what, but the semi-aniline seats and design in my current S560 are more comfortable than the Nappa in my previous pre-facelift S550. I recall the S550 being comfortable (find, around just average) but I don't recall I'd refer to them as super comfortable as my current S560. The seminailine seats are certainly more cushiony and the leather is softer for sure.
Our LS430 did have great seats, as did the LS400 and the LS460s. I’m happy with the seats in my S560 too
Our LS430 did have great seats, as did the LS400 and the LS460s. I’m happy with the seats in my S560 too
Surprised you liked your LS400 more than the LS430 (in another post your wrote if I recall correctly).
If there is one car I wish they can produce with modern tech but with same exact design and main components, it would be the LS430. Give me better cooled seats, massage functions along with lane keep assist and carplay and I’d keep it forever. Same exact engine please!!! 250-260K of oil changes only besides only one lower gasket that needed to be replaced at 240K miles. I didn’t even replace the timing belt!
If comfort is number one, I'd automatically exclude the Urus, and would think the Bentayga would make sense. Perhaps a Cullinan?
Originally Posted by Bubba1
Im seriously considering a crossover/suv. I’m finding the quirks of the S580 do get tiring. I’m almost 1.5 years into ownership.
The door handles are really troublesome. My wife and I went out for dinner the other night…our car was parked on a fairly dark street. No imminent threat but a little uncomfortable. I unlocked the car with the key fob from about 20 yards, in anticipation of the door handles not working properly. We get to the car and the door handles jam. My wife keeps pulling (she got to the car first, a few feet ahead of me,the handles retreat. I had to pull the keys out and reopen. We get into the car she reaches for the door which has now extended fully out. Hurts her back because the door openings are so bad. She has to step out of the car pull the door back in then sit down.
I lock the doors from the inside, she says “what the f**k is going, what a stupid car. What if we needed to get in quickly?”
Otherwise, I’m pretty happy with the S580. But the way these door handles are designed and the door openings are driving me to distraction!
I’m considering the new Cayenne and some of the super suvs, Urus, AM, Bentayga. My knees aren’t what they used and something high up, with better ingress/egress visibility is what I’m looking for. Comfort is the number one priority and a little sportiness, and maybe a hybrid this time. Would love peoples opinions on these suvs??
If comfort is number one, I'd automatically exclude the Urus, and would think the Bentayga would make sense. Perhaps a Cullinan?
Cullinan imho is not worth the money and is a little too high profile for me. Urus in comfort mode drives like an Audi but a bit flashy, Bentayga huge depreciation and style wise hmm…AM dealer network, depreciation and reliability? Cayenne Turbo want to test drive when the new one comes out.
Cullinan imho is not worth the money and is a little too high profile for me. Urus in comfort mode drives like an Audi but a bit flashy, Bentayga huge depreciation and style wise hmm…AM dealer network, depreciation and reliability? Cayenne Turbo want to test drive when the new one comes out.
That Urus! So sad that Lambo drank the Kool aid but it still looks cool. SUV's are so lame but all Americans fawking love them.
SUVs are great. No problem carrying big square boxes, you can run over any curb that needs it, see out over traffic better, etc. People love to hate them but the truth is they make great companions in the daily grind even if they're not cool.
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.
