PHEV capability was built into 992 and they can add it in at any time as the driveline is set up too accept the electric motor in their usual location. And yes, they're researching alternative fuels, both alone and in a consortium.

They started out saying they were going 100% EV, then it was 100% but the 911 would be ways off, then it was 100% but exact timing on the 911 was not within the foreseeable future, etc. Corporate types are slippery at the best of times but at this point I think we're talking about the possibility of a tentative maybe as it used to be said.

 

Not many on this Forum have both an Engineering Degree and a Valid CDL. In the Oilfields a Typical Shift is 12-14 Hours that includes everyone on Location: Heavy Equipment folks who operate Cranes, Massive Forklifts, and the typical Caterpillar/John Deere heavy equipment for digging and road maintenance. When explosives are used for Wireline Operations all vehicles on location and all Cell Phones must be turned off. Can't risk static electricity or sparks to accidentally set off the explosive charge. So not sure if Battery Powered Trucks especially Teslas will be allowed on Location with Explosives and possible Natural Gas leaks from Drill Floor or the Wellhead/BOP even if the wellbore is plugged or a Packer is sent downhole.

Several companies are already using autonomous Long Haul Trucks out West with a man in the Loop. Older Diesel Trucks that don't use DEF are now having a hard time meeting Emissions even in New Mexico and especially in California. One old roommate who is an owner operator is now down for a few weeks until his older Truck is retrofitted with a new Computer. He is holding out with his older Pete with the badass twin stacks rigged to run without DEF and pass local emissions. I'm afraid he has got to buy a newer Rig that uses DEF soon. California is waiting for both Tesla and Hydrogen Truck manufacturers to release their products so Emissions are almost entirely eliminated.

Long Haul Truckers have to take a 30-minute break before their 8th hour driving. And can drive for a total of 11-hours in a Day then must take a 10-hour break that we use to Eat then Sleep. Team Semi Drivers definitely won't run Battery Powered Trucks because it takes too long to recharge unless they can exchange a fully charged Battery Pack in a 10-30 minute break. Time is money.

 

A different trip experience.

https://rennlist.com/forums/taycan/1...e-ev-trip.html

 

Until the new VW platform comes out I feel like anyone buying an EV for long distance driving is delusional (unless its a Tesla). Everyone knows full well how infrastructure is not and will not be like a normal cars for years. Soon other brands will start adopting the Tesla charging socket so we'll be able to use them and this issue can be alleviated a bit. As this thread has been anti-EV I thought I'd mention that I LOVE my Taycan. Got it last weekend but maybe I'll do a review comparison to the W222 after a little while of ownership. Should have a few other EVs in the next few years I hope. Only issue is rising electricity price, I have no doubt it'll eventually cost the same to charge the car at home as it does to fill a tank of petrol.

 

That's a beautiful car!

 

Would love to hear your comparison of your Taycan and W222 as they are two on my next car short list, though the thought of buying a car with all the propulsion claptrap that an ICE car contains is rapidly losing it's appeal. The Taycan's two speed gearbox is bad enough.

I have found the theme of this thread to be simply varying rationalizations for continuing to drive ICE powered cars. As I see it, we need to shift the paradigm to people recognizing that the atmosphere is not theirs to dump their carbon into and the best way to facilitate that is to add a fee for its removal associated with products (yes I am including EV battery production) and energy usage (yes I am including coal fired production of electricity). Similarly there would be credits for carbon removal. This would rightfully recognize the value that areas like the Amazon rainforest provide the rest of the world.

On the price of electricity I would suggest getting solar but then again you live in England .

Beautiful car by the way.

 

@Streamliner what is the next non-Bentley vehicle on your list that you plan to lemon sale back to the dealer? An S-Class?

 

Sorry, but I don’t understand your question. Please elaborate.

 

c'mon ​​​​​@Streamliner you sequentially lease MBs, complain about them, and lemon them back. Then repeat your MB resume and make vague references to a Flying Spur being too flashy. Agree? Just buy the Bentley so you can be happy.

 

No offense, but that’s B.S.! I have never, ever bought or leased a new car (I’ve had 60 of them) with any thoughts other than not completely enjoying it. Here is my history with brand new MB’s:

1979 450SL: Trouble free, kept it for six years
1986 560SL: Trouble free, kept it for three years
1987 560SEC: Trouble free, kept it for 18 months, did not really care for it
1990 300SL: Trouble free, kept it a year and traded for 500SL
1991 500SL: Trouble free, kept it for three years
1995 E320 Cabriolet, trouble free, kept it for a year, did not like it
2004 E500, Trouble free, mostly driven by wife, kept it five years
2004 SL500, Trouble free, kept it for twelve years
2010 E350, Trouble free, mostly driven by wife, kept it for eight years
2013 S550, Trouble free, kept it for a year, could not deal with black exterior
2014 ML350BT, Trouble free, kept it a year, missed my big sedan
2015 S550, Trouble free, kept it three years
2016 E350, Trouble free, driven mostly by wife, kept it four years
2018 S560, Trouble free, kept it two years
2019 SL450, Trouble free, perhaps “THE” best car I have ever owned, still have it
2020 S560, Harsh 3-2 downshift, MB refused to repair it and OFFERED to buy it back and I reluctantly agreed
2022 S580, Horribly problematic, worst new car I have ever owned, MB OFFERED to buy it back and I am absolutely thrilled

So, you see, I do not LOOK to buy cars that are lemons and I have been what I feel is an extremely loyal MB customer. Unfortunately, MB quality, in my opinion, has been headed south for a few years now and is epitomized by the W223. These are not good cars, in my opinion. There are too many iffy details about them and, compared to the W222’s, the ride quality sucks.

As for Bentley, I really don’t want one. I truly miss my W222’s. If I can find an acceptable one to buy, I’m going that way. If not, probably going with a Genesis.

 

Thank you! The Taycan is a ROCKET ship, from a dig it annihilates my C7 RS6 and I only have a Taycan 4s (562hp from launch I believe). Its claimed 0-60 is 4s but I promise you its much quicker. As a replacement for a W222 I would look at the range issue; charging time is 8-12h at home and I get approx 230 miles with a little aggressive driving, it'd probably do 250+ on a motorway cruise. It's quite comfortable, especially seeing as how its on 21" wheels. I have 0 regrets getting the Taycan but in terms of value for money the W222 is bounds above (evidently seeing how its an older used car now). I don't think there's any reason to comment on driving characteristics, it's a Porsche. There are visibility issues, the hood is sloped downwards so you can't see it while driving and the rear arches are FAT which I have yet to get used to enough to be comfortable on narrow roads. The Bose sound system is horrible, I've created and ordered an aftermarket sound system which should be bounds above Burmester 3D/4D in the S Class'. The passenger side screen is one of the best options I've chosen in a car, I leave the navigation open on the main screen whilst whoever's in the passenger can control the music. They can use their phones bluetooth, Apple Music/spotify independent of a phone and a magnitude of other sources.



If I'm being honest with you I believe that EV is worse for the environment in the shorter run I understand that I am a guinea pig for future iterations (the PPE platform seems interesting); the main motivations for getting it were that the W223 I wanted was Ł130k (my W222 cost Ł75k new and nearly fully loaded) which is about 170k usd and I would have to wait over 1.5 years for delivery, the fact that there's tax benefits to purchasing an EV for my company and that I got 20k off a brand new Porsche.

 

You get used to the hippiness. One thing about Porsche, you can trust them to go where you point them, you'll find yourself supremely confident in no time!

 

I like the Taycan, but I don't see it as a luxury sedan replacement for a lot of people. It's a premium vehicle, but not a luxury vehicle. Road noise is very present, the interior is cramped, and I take issue with the high pitched whine of EVs. Sound system is really not good, back seat: kids only, ingress/egress: the seat is behind the b pillar!
For some reason a lot of EVs get the sound system wrong. I thought the premium system in our e-tron was unlistenable, something I never would have said about the Subaru we owned just prior. The midrange was scooped like -6 dB and it was so bright. Did you guys even tune this before shipping it?

 

Yeah, I agree with a lot of that, it's somewhere between the E Class and S Class. I haven't had road noise concerns but all the audio installers have said that Porsches are SEVERELY lacking in sound deadening, for my build I've had to order something like 100 sheets of sound deadening material. I don't suffer from the cramped/headroom issues with driver + passenger at 6', probably because it's a Cross Turismo in the 2+2 configuration. The sloping back of the saloon means that your head touches the sunroof in the back if you're a little tall. The Burmester 3D in the Porsche is worse than the Burmester 3D retrofitted into the S Class nearly 10 years ago now. They probably don't see it themselves as a luxury vehicle, as you said, which makes them cheap out in some places.

Is there any other EVs you're looking at?? I think we've all agreed before that if the W223 had an EV option in the same body shape it would be the one to have. I've asked about the Range Rover EV but deliveries are 1.5+ years away, further than the SV. Don't see anything else worthy in the luxury space.

 

Folks are barking up the wrong tree comparing Taycan with S-Class in the same post.

Porsche = driving experience. Driving experience includes sound. Sound of the car and road. Large amounts of sound deadening in most Porsches is not consistent with the product DNA. Panamera and Cayenne excepted, as these can be optioned to S-Class levels of luxury and comfort minus rear executive seating features.

Additionally for the Taycan, it is an a electric car with not-too-competitive range, so weight is everything. Luxurious interiors generally mean thick heavy carpets, thick high quality full leather seating and trim surfaces, thick headliners, heavy audio systems, and well-bolstered highly adjustable seats. All of the preceding features are heavy, therefore incompatible with an arguably compact-class Taycan EV. Taycan can't afford the weight with its already compromised range.

Talking about Taycan as a quiet (insulated from road noise) luxury car misses the point.

 

I agree with what you're saying, it's a sports car, a GT 4 door/CLS53 competitor rather than S Class. I'm using the S as a reference point since the 222 is something we've all had, I'll probably always subconsciously compare my future cars to that because of how marvellous it was. I already compared the S to my new Autobiography and SVR on this forum, I'll have the new Cayenne next week and can compare it to that too if someone asks.

With regards to "missing the point" of the car; Porsche offer full club leather interior, Burmester 3D, sound insulating glass, upgraded headliner, wood trims, 18 way adjustable sports massaging seats, rear seat entertainment, etc. They allow you to decide whether you want a sports car with PTV+, PDCC Sport etc or one with more luxurious undertones. Is it or will it ever be a S Class? No, but it is a sports car that "resembles" a S Class more than EVs like the Model S Plaid; the EQS53 doesn't feel Ł160k special (no discounts in the UK like I see you guys benefit from), EQE53's too small and the i7 m70 hasn't landed yet so until then I'm gonna continue missing the point, reducing my range and making something I love even more.

 

The PDCC actually improves the ride because it reduces the rate in a straight line which in turn reduces the effective spring rate.

 

My thoughts exactly regarding the Taycan. To answer your question about EVs I'm looking forward to, that would be Mercedes and BMW. In my experience they are producing the most luxurious EVs.

 

Interested to read your review of the Cayenne. Are you test driving one, or taking delivery? Which year/model/spec? I have a 9Y0.1 S well-optioned and love it.

 

My dealers letting me test drive it for the week because my wife mentioned that she liked it. I asked for the facelift but after what you said I asked my son and he said he doesn't think there's many in the UK, no idea on spec but it is a UK 23 plate (means post March 2023); I'll share more on Monday/Tuesday if you're interested. The general sentiment I've seen on the facelift, especially with people who have had previous generations, is that people think it feels much cheaper inside. Do you agree? Your generations interior looks beautiful, if they offered passenger display with it it would be the best. For SUVs I've only really liked Range Rovers, to avoid any problems and sell them in warranty you have to replace them every 18-24 months lol.

I really want to agree with you about Mercedes but what people are saying and how my w213 facelift feels compared to the 3 series, and chassis comments on the w206 c class, brings me concern as to Mercedes' future. I still eventually want a 223 but I never thought the day would come where Mercedes quality comes under such question

 

Ever heard of DaimlerChrysler?

 

I forget that era despite the innovation that came with it, I had a C215 but the rest of the lineup seemed 'older' and I loved the D3 A8 around that time. Do you think Mercedes will recover again? There's some similarities to that time including Mercedes' exponentially growing the number of models available, I guess we'll see what happens with time

 

The facelift 9Y0.2 interior is obviously cheapened in some areas. For example, for the standard leather interior, square inches (square cm) of leather are reduced in the facelift compared with the first generation 9Y0.1. Buttons are cheapened, the steering wheel is more plasticky and the shift lever moved to the dash and is known as the "Braun shaver" shifter. I particularly don't like the visual treatment in the form of a large "scallop" taken out of the dash surrounding the new large all-digital display. The prior version dash was very integrated and clean looking and had the traditional Porsche needle tachometer in the center.

Another decades-old Porsche tradition, the offside (outboard-of-steering wheel) "key" was removed in the facelift, replaced by an offside start button.

First time Cayenne buyers who don't know about the pre-facelift won't know any better about these changes. Given that 2023 units are still relatively new, I would go for a well-optioned MY23 for the nicer interior without having to option club leather.

The facelift S trim does have the advantage of a V8 engine, which replaced the very good 2.9L V6 TT in the pre-facelift S.

Overall the Cayenne is an excellent platform and does nearly everything well.

 

I just test drove a BMW i7, any concerns I had about not liking an EV are completely gone. I have no desire to even drive a 760...it was simply the most incredible riding and driving car I have ever driven.

 

Honestly an EV drivetrain elevates a given car to at least a class above it's equivalent ICE powered car.