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All depends on what you are looking for. I look forward to driving my S580 every day, and I enjoyed driving my S560 at 3.5 years old just as much as when it was brand new. I have zero interest in any AMG model, its just not my thing.
I agree with this. I had a S580 and I hated it. I traded it in for the 2018 S63 and was much happier. The 2024 S63 is an awesome machine but its what you are looking for
Exactly! Some people act like this is a bad thing. It's intentional. If you don't like the firm suspension of an AMG, then the car isn't for you. Among other things the firm sporty suspension even in Comfort mode is one of the reasons I drive an AMG. I hate floaty, soft suspensions. Comfort is subjective, too. I find my AMG more comfortable in general than many regular MBs because the body stays flat over bumps and settles quickly. In a regular S Class etc. the body of the car sways, bobbles and nose dives around like a ship in the open sea. I find that uncomfortable and disconnected from the road. First thing I do whenever I find myself in a regular MB is putting it in Sport+ right away, and even then it tends to be still too soft.
I will say this and I have said this before. AMG as a performance brand is quite different from the base cars they are based on. Going from a regular Mercedes-Benz to an AMG is quite a change and I suspect that comes as a surprise to many who are used to cushy Mercedes-Benz. The change is not as big with BMW, because regular BMWs are already fairly sporty compared to a Mercedes-Benz. Similarly with Audi, the RS models are on the softer side and closer to the easier to live with regular Audi models.
You're so right. We traded our EQS SUV (Airmatic only) for an AMG EQE SUV (AMG Airmatic + Active Roll Stabilization).
We were blown away by how much better the suspension is in the AMG in every area essentially. The body control is night and day better. There are so many situations where this new suspension in the AMG EQE is BETTER than the EQS was. All the bouncing, floating, side-to-side head toss from the EQS is ERASED with the active anti-roll stabilization. There is no side-to-side wobble at all and it's amazing what it's able to erase out of the road that the EQS couldn't. Overall, it delivers a much flatter and drama free ride, I think our dogs will like this better than the EQS.
This isn't our first AMG but first in a while and I'm remembering how hard it is to go back to "regular" Mercedes afterwards. The AMGs do feel special. 617 horsepower and 701 lb ft of torque helps too
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Originally Posted by QuadBenz
You're so right. We traded our EQS SUV (Airmatic only) for an AMG EQE SUV (AMG Airmatic + Active Roll Stabilization).
We were blown away by how much better the suspension is in the AMG in every area essentially. The body control is night and day better. There are so many situations where this new suspension in the AMG EQE is BETTER than the EQS was. All the bouncing, floating, side-to-side head toss from the EQS is ERASED with the active anti-roll stabilization. There is no side-to-side wobble at all and it's amazing what it's able to erase out of the road that the EQS couldn't. Overall, it delivers a much flatter and drama free ride, I think our dogs will like this better than the EQS.
This isn't our first AMG but first in a while and I'm remembering how hard it is to go back to "regular" Mercedes afterwards. The AMGs do feel special. 617 horsepower and 701 lb ft of torque helps too
I am guessing the lower weight of the EQE SUV helps ... a little.
Even the AMG lite models have surprisingly stiff suspensions, at least to me. I assume the full AMG models are the same if not stiffer.
I’ve owned M lite and RS lite and they both leaned way more towards comfort versus sport. It was like night and day versus the AMG lite I owned, which was a jarring experience when I first drove it and obviously tuned more towards sport. I’ve driven in M and RS and the M is as stiffly sprung as the AMG lite I owned. The full RS was stiffer than the RS lite but still more comfortable than the M and AMG lite.
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Originally Posted by Frenetic
Even the AMG lite models have surprisingly stiff suspensions, at least to me. I assume the full AMG models are the same if not stiffer.
I’ve owned M lite and RS lite and they both leaned way more towards comfort versus sport. It was like night and day versus the AMG lite I owned, which was a jarring experience when I first drove it and obviously tuned more towards sport. I’ve driven in M and RS and the M is as stiffly sprung as the AMG lite I owned. The full RS was stiffer than the RS lite but still more comfortable than the M and AMG lite.
The benefit of the full AMG models is unlike the amg-lite (so 35, 43, 53 etc.), there is ARC. The GLE 53 (from what I heard) had the option of ARC but you can't option it anymore (or so I heard), the GLE 63 S has it standard I think.
We were blown away by how much better the suspension is in the AMG in every area essentially. The body control is night and day better. There are so many situations where this new suspension in the AMG EQE is BETTER than the EQS was. All the bouncing, floating, side-to-side head toss from the EQS is ERASED with the active anti-roll stabilization. There is no side-to-side wobble at all and it's amazing what it's able to erase out of the road that the EQS couldn't. Overall, it delivers a much flatter and drama free ride, I think our dogs will like this better than the EQS.
Thats an SUV though. In a sedan there is no side to side head toss or wobble, etc.
Thats an SUV though. In a sedan there is no side to side head toss or wobble, etc.
There most certainly is, unless it has stiff enough sway bars to control body roll, but that reduces straight line comfort, or active roll stabilization like E-ABC or ARC to control body movements while still allowing for independent wheel movements in a straight line for increased comfort. But can't have a soft suspension and no body roll w/o active roll stabilization. A suspension is fundamentally a compromise between comfort and handling. These are opposing goals and the only way to get them to meet in the middle is to make everything active. Active springs, dampers and sway bars, but that doesn't come for free. It adds weight, complexity and failure points.
Last edited by superswiss; 09-19-2024 at 03:32 PM.
There most certainly is, unless it has stiff enough sway bars to control body roll, but that reduces straight line comfort, or active roll stabilization like E-ABC or ARC to control body movements while still allowing for independent wheel movements in a straight line for increased comfort. But can't have a soft suspension and no body roll w/o active roll stabilization. A suspension is fundamentally a compromise between comfort and handling. These are opposing goals and the only way to get them to meet in the middle is to make everything active. Active springs, dampers and sway bars, but that doesn't come for free. It adds weight, complexity and failure points.
I can tell you I haven't felt any side to side head toss in the sedans I have owned, active dampers or not. In SUVs absolutely.
Not saying there is no body roll, saying that there is not side to side head toss like you have in an SUV
I can tell you I haven't felt any side to side head toss in the sedans I have owned, active dampers or not. In SUVs absolutely.
Not saying there is no body roll, saying that there is not side to side head toss like you have in an SUV
It is definitely less pronounced due to the lower center of gravity. Less of a toss, more like a side to side sway, but it is there. All depends on one's point of reference. Once you've driven sportier cars for a while that stay flat no matter what you throw at them, you start to notice this side to side sway a lot more.
It is definitely less pronounced due to the lower center of gravity. Less of a toss, more like a side to side sway, but it is there. All depends on one's point of reference. Once you've driven sportier cars for a while that stay flat no matter what you throw at them, you start to notice this side to side sway a lot more.
Flatter sure but much firmer, I have never felt any side to side sway or toss in any of my sedans, but the many sportier cars I have driven all deliver rides I find too firm and uncomfortable.
Just took a test ride yesterday of a '24 S63 (dealer let me take the car by myself for about an hour and a half). The 2024 S63 in Sport + seems to be too soft for me. In comparison, IMHO the '24 in Sport + seems to be about as soft as my '19 S63 in Comfort. I believe it is due to the weight in the '24 and how they set up the suspension. I am ordering a '25 S63 but it is not nearly as "stiff" as my '19 S63. Just an opinion.
Originally Posted by kmwnaz
Interested to hear how everyone who owns the new 2024 AMG S63 feels about the ride. Even on (C) comfort setting, I think it's not very smooth. In fact, I'd say it was fairly rough.
All cars are subject to a lateral load transfer during cornering; as the unsprung CG and/or weight get higher, you increase the load transfer that will occur without intervention. When loading the sways, or increasing the rate on the outside suspension, you increase the effective spring rate as they load up, so you can't take them out of the equation unless you go active. Even there, you're going to see increased spring rate when encountering road imperfections, and while corning, because they're loaded at that point. As swiss stated, there is an unavoidable compromise here.
Some transfer must happen, it can't be wholly negated. Because the traction force gains from vertical loading are not linear, there is a net loss in traction, it is not zero sum. Add weight, your cornering limits go down, all else remaining equal. Move the CG up and the same applies. Do both, and you've got a typical SUV.
Weight and CG have similar outcomes when considering squat and dive, and while different goals are in play there, it wasn't discussed, so I'm skipping them. It's enough to state that OEMs are also trying to manage them to improve acceleration and braking, while improving or maintaining ride comfort as much as possible, and these things also play into compromises with themselves, lateral load transfer, or both, in different conditions.
There are always consequences. The S63, despite a boatload of tech, still lives in a world where physics apply. With an SUV, you add higher CG to the mix, it's why they feel stiffer even in non sporting applicationss; they are sacrificing some ride comfort to prevent load transfer.
You have to decide what you want, and what compromises you'll accept to get it. There is nothing wrong with the S63s suspension compliance, it's a mutant, it's absurd, and shouldn't exist in a sane universe. But all the same, I'm glad it does.
Agreed! There is a reason I own as my daily driver the '19 S63 (soon to be '25 S63) and my track cars are my C8 Z06s and my race car. With that thought, heading to COTA next week with AMG Experience (AMG Driving Academy) in the Pro Class to test the CGs on all the new AMGs including the new GT Coupe.
Originally Posted by crabman
All cars are subject to a lateral load transfer during cornering; as the unsprung CG and/or weight get higher, you increase the load transfer that will occur without intervention. When loading the sways, or increasing the rate on the outside suspension, you increase the effective spring rate as they load up, so you can't take them out of the equation unless you go active. Even there, you're going to see increased spring rate when encountering road imperfections, and while corning, because they're loaded at that point. As swiss stated, there is an unavoidable compromise here.
Some transfer must happen, it can't be wholly negated. Because the traction force gains from vertical loading are not linear, there is a net loss in traction, it is not zero sum. Add weight, your cornering limits go down, all else remaining equal. Move the CG up and the same applies. Do both, and you've got a typical SUV.
Weight and CG have similar outcomes when considering squat and dive, and while different goals are in play there, it wasn't discussed, so I'm skipping them. It's enough to state that OEMs are also trying to manage them to improve acceleration and braking, while improving or maintaining ride comfort as much as possible, and these things also play into compromises with themselves, lateral load transfer, or both, in different conditions.
There are always consequences. The S63, despite a boatload of tech, still lives in a world where physics apply. With an SUV, you add higher CG to the mix, it's why they feel stiffer even in non sporting applicationss; they are sacrificing some ride comfort to prevent load transfer.
You have to decide what you want, and what compromises you'll accept to get it. There is nothing wrong with the S63s suspension compliance, it's a mutant, it's absurd, and shouldn't exist in a sane universe. But all the same, I'm glad it does.
Thats an SUV though. In a sedan there is no side to side head toss or wobble, etc.
Have you driven an EQS sedan? Would you be able to provide some thoughts on how it rides in this regard? Any comparisons to the W223 would be helpful as well. We may pick up an EQS sedan by the end of this month but haven't driven it yet. Will be driving it in a couple days
Have you driven an EQS sedan? Would you be able to provide some thoughts on how it rides in this regard? Any comparisons to the W223 would be helpful as well. We may pick up an EQS sedan by the end of this month but haven't driven it yet. Will be driving it in a couple days
I know he did, but if u welcome feedback from others, am happy to provide my feedback too. My TLDR version/feedback is: if it wasn't for the exterior look, I would have bought the EQS last year instead of a Model S.
I drove almost every single EV sedan available on the market, for hours at the very least, and days in other occasions by renting it from Turo. Mbenz has weird rule that they always want the salesman to be with you in the car... was weird.. I found another one on Turo and rented it. I loved the car, liked the drivetrain (but there is some motor whine that I didn't like unlike the newer Lucid or Tesla). The regenerative braking sucks but nothing that would let me hate the car, was still a very nice car. I liked the fact I can option it with so many luxury options. The car does NOT drive like the W223 but drives better in some aspects, but maybe not as refined in other aspects.. The material choices in the cabin are not as premium as the W223, understanding that even W223 received some form of a downgrade as far as interior materials, but the EQS is still more inferior. Knowing that I highly considered the Lucid and Tesla S, I had no issues with the cabin materials in the EQS because it was still better or just as good. I still think Lucid has the best interior materials choices and quality though. Tesla has the best leatherette seats I have ever seen in any car (would rather have that material even over semi-aniline leather). The point is, if you like the exterior design, there was nothing wrong with the EQS at all (motor whine can be an issue to some, but the car was fun to drive). It not as luxurious as the W223, but if you ONLY want an EV, EQS is one of the best options. Take a look at the i7 though, the infotainment alone is one reason I'd pick i7 over EQS, but it's hard to choose between the two anyway. The exterior design is just not what I wanted, great car otherwise. I know you tagged W20S .. he is very thorough am sure he has his own opinion too.
We’ve had an EQS450+ Pinnacle sedan that we replaced with EQS580 Pinnacle Designo Manufaktur SUV and a Tesla Model X (newest refresh MY22) that we replaced with a loaded i7 xDrive 60 with autobahn package.
Having owned all 3, I’d say I prefer the ride quality in the eqs suv to the eqs sedan due to the increased suspension travel. The eqs sedan had this feeling of being underdamped while hitting its bump stops over rough roads. There was significant side to side head toss, which is still present but seems less pronounced in the SUV maybe due to the additional weight.
That being said the active suspension option in the bmw (autobahn package) is a paradigm shift in refinement juxtapose to the EQ products. The car is equally soft yet planted with no head toss and completely flat cornering.
Regarding interior materials I find my EQS580 SUV commensurate with its price point when equipped with the designo manufaktur interior and acoustic comfort packages. There’s a definite sense of occasion when equipped with the yacht wood, hyperscreen, and semi-aniline leather dash and door panels.
I've had three EQS sedan loaners over the last year or so. A 450+ and two 580. I like the throttle response and I agree it drives better than the W223, but still very floaty. There's no Sport+ mode, so the most I could button it down was in Sport. Brakes are worst I've ever experienced in a car. Very wishy washy and way too long of a pedal travel until they start clamping properly. Almost rear ended the car in front of me a few times. Had to use intelligent recuperation to feel more confident in the braking. I liked the first EQS as a car to just get around. As opposed to the neutered throttle response of most regular MBs, the EQ models have a proper throttle response for the most part, but after the third loaner, I was already bored of them.
FWIW, I've also driven the EQS AMG and the EQE AMG twice now. Just got back from Germany where I drove the EQE AMG again at an event. I liked the EQE AMG the first time, but this time I was also bored of it already. Next to the new GT 63 coupe and even the CLE 53, the EQE AMG was just meh, just too heavy and boaty to be fun compared to other AMGs. But as said, the EQ AMG models drive way better and have proper brakes than the non-AMG versions.
Last edited by superswiss; 09-20-2024 at 02:12 PM.
I had a 2018 E63S before I traded for my 2022 S580. In comfort mode, it rode hard. In Sport +, it was intolerable. But, having attended the AMG Driving Academy, we drove E63s around the track, and I appreciated Sport + (and even Race mode) in that scenario - but only in that scenario. When my E63 went in for service, I would often get a non-AMG E-Class loaner car; it drove like you would expect an E-Class to drive. But everything else about my E63 I loved - its acceleration, the way it looked, the way it sounded, the looks it would get from people alongside me in traffic, and on and on and on. In hindsight, I miss my E63. I should have never traded, but it was out of warranty and was beginning to become more and more expensive to own.
If I could rewrite history, I would have waited and bought the S63. The S580 and S63 are different animals, but they are close enough to fuel my midlife crisis, but still have the class or being an S-Class. Having had an E63, I would expect the ride quality in an S63 to be harsher than my S580, but I would gladly forgo the ride quality for the all the other benefits an AMG would bring.
Final thoughts: My S580 is just a car, a nice car and all that, but it's just a car. It gets me from point A to B, but it's not an AMG. My E63 was special, and I do honestly really miss driving
We had the same car and year and car came only in one suspension setting: brick
AMG at the time looked for a very aggressive suspension setting to match the cars overall demeanor and overdid it a bit with its new Airmatic+ suspension. Something they fixed at facelift time. That said, if you dialed down the tire-pressure the car was a joy to drive.
I've had three EQS sedan loaners over the last year or so. A 450+ and two 580. I like the throttle response and I agree it drives better than the W223, but still very floaty. There's no Sport+ mode, so the most I could button it down was in Sport. Brakes are worst I've ever experienced in a car. Very wishy washy and way too long of a pedal travel until they start clamping properly. Almost rear ended the car in front of me a few times. Had to use intelligent recuperation to feel more confident in the braking. I liked the first EQS as a car to just get around. As opposed to the neutered throttle response of most regular MBs, the EQ models have a proper throttle response for the most part, but after the third loaner, I was already bored of them.
FWIW, I've also driven the EQS AMG and the EQE AMG twice now. Just got back from Germany where I drove the EQE AMG again at an event. I liked the EQE AMG the first time, but this time I was also bored of it already. Next to the new GT 63 coupe and even the CLE 53, the EQE AMG was just meh, just too heavy and boaty to be fun compared to other AMGs. But as said, the EQ AMG models drive way better and have proper brakes than the non-AMG versions.
We love our EQE AMG sedan! I think it’s obviously hard to recreate the engagement that a ICE powertrain and shifting transmission provides. However, this car replaced a 2022 Tesla Model S and it is just so much more engaging and special to drive in every aspect. The sense of occasion, fluidity of the steering, instant throttle response, and diversity in the drive modes make it very adaptable imo.
I've had three EQS sedan loaners over the last year or so. A 450+ and two 580. I like the throttle response and I agree it drives better than the W223, but still very floaty. There's no Sport+ mode, so the most I could button it down was in Sport. Brakes are worst I've ever experienced in a car. Very wishy washy and way too long of a pedal travel until they start clamping properly. Almost rear ended the car in front of me a few times. Had to use intelligent recuperation to feel more confident in the braking. I liked the first EQS as a car to just get around. As opposed to the neutered throttle response of most regular MBs, the EQ models have a proper throttle response for the most part, but after the third loaner, I was already bored of them.
FWIW, I've also driven the EQS AMG and the EQE AMG twice now. Just got back from Germany where I drove the EQE AMG again at an event. I liked the EQE AMG the first time, but this time I was also bored of it already. Next to the new GT 63 coupe and even the CLE 53, the EQE AMG was just meh, just too heavy and boaty to be fun compared to other AMGs. But as said, the EQ AMG models drive way better and have proper brakes than the non-AMG versions.
Looking forward to your comments on the new GT. Love the looks but am bit torn about the weight.
Have you driven an EQS sedan? Would you be able to provide some thoughts on how it rides in this regard? Any comparisons to the W223 would be helpful as well. We may pick up an EQS sedan by the end of this month but haven't driven it yet. Will be driving it in a couple days
I have, the EQS sedan rides nice, it is softer and boatier than the W223, but all in all I like the way it drives. Like S_W222 said if it weren't for the exterior styling I would have seriously considered an EQS sedan.
Originally Posted by CSLA
Having owned all 3, I’d say I prefer the ride quality in the eqs suv to the eqs sedan due to the increased suspension travel. The eqs sedan had this feeling of being underdamped while hitting its bump stops over rough roads. There was significant side to side head toss, which is still present but seems less pronounced in the SUV maybe due to the additional weight.
I think this was solved in the more recent ones. When I drove the EQS Sedan back when it first came out I felt this, but the one I drove right before I got my W223 ity was much improved. Still boatier than the W223 without really being better riding. The i7 is better damped and controlled though.
Looking forward to your comments on the new GT. Love the looks but am bit torn about the weight.
I posted my impressions already below. Loved it. Don't get hung up on the weight. It was my concern as well, but this car is awesome. The new active suspension combined with rear wheel steering makes it way more agile than the previous GT.
We love our EQE AMG sedan! I think it’s obviously hard to recreate the engagement that a ICE powertrain and shifting transmission provides. However, this car replaced a 2022 Tesla Model S and it is just so much more engaging and special to drive in every aspect. The sense of occasion, fluidity of the steering, instant throttle response, and diversity in the drive modes make it very adaptable imo.
Yeah, it comes down to what you expect from a performance car and what you use it for. It was fun at the first event to hustle it around the track, but you hit the nail on the head. It thoroughly lacks engagement. EVs to me are kinda like rollercoasters. They do one thing, instant torque and acceleration, but like a rollercoaster, it's fun the first couple of times and then you get used to it and start looking for what else it does. Unfortunately, there is nothing else. After the initial instant torque surge there's no follow up at the top. The power goes flat, so it's fun up to about 45 mph, but then there's no crescendo like you get with an ICE that keeps building and pulling all the way to the redline and then you shift into the next higher gear and you get the pull and build up over an over again. There's just nothing that follows the instant torque response in an EV. Eventually you start noticing the inferior dynamics due to having to haul all that weight around corners and it just becomes disappointing.
For me it's also that these things aren't really usable as a performance car. If you actually start getting on it, the battery is empty quickly. The faster you drive, the more time you spend charging it. As somebody who frequently travels in Germany and loves to drive fast on the Autobahn, these things make no sense. If you drive them fast it takes longer to get to the destination than if you drive slower. Just kinda pointless to have all this performance when using it results in tons of downtime.
09-18-2024, 05:47 PM
