S_W222

There is always a setback with every new generation in certain areas, that the facelift typically addresses. So, unfortunately we always have to wait to get the best version of a given generation.... The concept of the facelift is only because German manufacturers (and most others to be honest) refuse to execute year-year critical changes. The 4-years wait-time to make major/minor changes and upgrades makes no-sense, especially that it's always a perfect 4-5 years (perfectly planned). Why not address major issues or shortcomings immediately the year after or within 2 years? or year over year? Tesla is doing exactly that and owners love it, especially for issues that are added/upgraded via an OTA. I don't understand why manufactures aren't willing to pass new features via OTA when it's simply a software update that current hardware (can) support it.

QuadBenz

The EQ cars have gotten major updates and changes with each model year. Maybe they’re practicing there first?

S_W222

It’s not that, but it’s the fact that they must do that to compete in the EV markets. Most other EVs get updates/upgraded and improvements via software OTA and also year over year they get just SOOOO much better.

SW20S

W223 has had a lot of OTA and software related updates too

crabman

A few of those were push; most were a service bay visit, and only for affected users who had an ongoing gripe. By the latter, I mean that they did not update cars that were not in with issues. A different thing than keeping all the cars up to date, as some of the competition is doing.

I am glad they did answer to many of the gripes; but it's short of what is now becoming the bar. MB has a lot on their plate with the significant lineup changes they have planned in the near future, as they get down to the projected 14 models. At the end of that road they are supposed to be there. We'll see.

Viper98912

Because they want first and second year buyers to come back for the same "refreshed and upgraded" car again when their leases are up.

Viper98912

(while I continue to bang my drum about the 222/217 MBC to make this thread one of the most interesting ones on MBW lately...)

MBC definitely controls the ride on my 217 fantastically. It's very supple and well controlled, all the time. The only time I've noticed it act just a little "funny" is when taking a quick left turn at 20 mph and the front right dips into the corner - you can feel the car push that corner back up to try to level it out. While it's hard to notice, if you're paying attention enough you can definitely feel the car move "differently" mid-turn.

It reminds me of the Top Gear Brabus SL video a long time ago where the amount of power that was being generated while the car was drifting down the track made the ABC go absolutely nuts, and the car was jumping back and forth diagonally (and you could see it in the slow-mo video, it was pretty interesting to see)

W205C43PFL

I see.

Wolfman

That’s actually not the case. Its just that MB decides what updates are facelift updates.
Those are usually more substantial (aka costlier) updates that require retooling.
The 2017 S-Class is such example.

EV’s are always updated throughout the model years, including the Germans…

S_W222

I am not saying that it is the case all the time, but it's still mostly the case. There are several updates that facelift cars get that can still be easily applied to pre-facelift. I don't see why the newer COMMAND units in the W222 facelift would require re-tooling to be fitted in the W222 pre-facelift (they simply didn't want to). The same is true for software updates; there are several (functional) software improvements that could be applied to the previous hardware (Mbenz simply doesn't seem to care about making major improvements for cars on the roads even when OTA is a possibility, until the next facelift). There are exceptions of course for some good OTAs, but I am yet to see major hardware/functional improvements... Still 9 out of 10 OTAs are minor improvements or OTAs to fix glitches. In 2017, the fitted a new transmission in the pre-facelift W222 - that's just an indication that they can make major changes when they want, but they rarely ever do so.

W205C43PFL

Transmission upgrades before a new generation of facelift isn't new, for example, the 2018 C 300 got the 9G tronic, upgrading from the 2017 C 300 7G+.

I would say a good example of quite a substantial upgrade before facelifts is the facelift W205 C 43 compared to pre-facelift, not only lights and bumpers are changed, a lot of parts are changed.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c450-c43-...new-parts.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/c450-c43-...ml#post8411480

W205C43PFL

Edited to add:

Typo correction: "or facelift" not "of facelift"

Then E-Class wise, the 2020 E 350 replaced the 2019 E 300, M264 replaced M274 2019 E 450 replaced 2018 E 400, 2019 got a newer steering wheel similar style to the A-Class and S-Class.

E 450 got the power bump to pre-facelift C 43 horsepower, 362. While as the E 400 had 329 horsepower, they both still shared the same engine M276. Until facelift W213 and got the M256 with the 48V mild hybrid system.

Then 2019 also introduced Mercedes Me replacing mBrace in the USA and first time making connected services available in Canada.

carlosinseattle

I've heard this before; mainly from guys who married for looks and sex the first time, then married for practicallity the second time...just sayin

SW20S

Sorry, 223 is the better car

TripleDown

That's debatable - the interior is hideous with those two huge ipads and not everyone wants the extra complexity and maintenance costs associated with a "hot vee" twin turbo.

I like my w222 just fine thankyouverymuch :-) If only it rode better....

MBNUT1

Agreed on the Ipads. The "hot vee" was introduced on the FL W222. The W223 brought the 48V system.

W205C43PFL

I just learnt that certain configurations of the W222 had 48V mild hybrid system as well but that was in Europe and not North America.

SW20S

I've had them both, I call it like I see it. Hard to say which is better when you've only had one of them, having had both the W223 is the better car. I will add that this is the W223 forum, If you want to extol the virtues of your 222, you have your own forum

sam9187

I went from a 2018 S63 to a 2024 S63. I agree that the 2024 is a better car compared to the 2018 in terms of interior and ride. The only thing I miss is the louder exhaust of the 2018 and lack of ceramic brake availability for MY24.

crabman

I thought the design was far more modern, and had an elegance in its simplicity. I didn't like some aspects of it: I think they should have better integrated the driver's screen and HUD into the dash. Also call out the materials and finish: The black plastic is almost universally reviled, but they put it in the car anyway, because it's cheap to manufacture, and the corporate boy wonders have no respect for the people buying their cars. As to the finish, why oh why, did they allow the rough flashing on the side of the console, screen, etc? Cleaning those parts up would have cost next to nothing, it's a cheap-out customers are almost guaranteed to encounter every drive. Another sign of the lack of respect held at the highest levels in their corporate structure, for their customers.

To go back to the positive side, and starting with the subjective, I thought it looked nice outside the materials. In my mind before I ever owned the S Class, what I imagined for the interior was the latest-greatest, in a design that was modern, but classically restrained. I thought they nailed that. I can't easily define what seems elegant to me, but I felt like the got there with the 223. All subjective, but that's the way I saw it.

On the more objective side, I've had all the current screen paradigms, and what comes in the S Class is the best layout I've used so far. The larger squarish infotainment screen allows them to spread out the GUI elements more than the single long skinny piece of glass like you see with BMW and others. That allows you to more quickly find what you're looking for on the upper layer, which means less time with your eyes off the road. It's also more easily available to the co-pilot, who has equal access to it. Whether the owner is concerned with that doesn't change the fact that's a plus for some owners. Meanwhile, you have the drivers screen configurable in such a way that you can get any of the meaningful (to the task of driving) information into that screen, so your partner isn't intruding upon that functionality when they're on Tidal playing DJ in the infotainment.

I think there's a lot to like with those "ipads" and in the aesthetics. To me, by far, the biggest problems in the current S Class have nothing to do with engineering and design, and everything to do with a corporate culture that says consumers are things to be used, rather than customers. On a luxury purchase, the cheapest possible design isn't always going to be the most profitable. When your core, long time, die-hard customers, are leaving the brand, with curses on their lips, you're doing it wrong. It's how we ended up with attack doors, door handles that weren't fully cooked, sharp flashing on plastic pieces we often touch, the plastic itself cheap looking, feeling, and in a high view area, etc. All easy enough to fix for little cost, they had the talent and resources, but the customer wasn't important enough for them to address those issues.

I was watching a AMA with Warren Buffett, it was some years ago, so I'm going to paraphrase as best as I remember. He was asked why Blockbuster didn't get into streaming, and if that was what brought down their fall. He said yes and no, but that not getting into streaming was a symptom, not the problem. The problem was arrogance. It's why they didn't become the 400 lb streaming gorilla they could have easily been. MB hasn't done anything on that scale, but every problem with this car was a choice, not the result of inherent limitations.

tx170754

Greed and arrogance will probably summarise it !

W205C43PFL

I do absolutely agree with the material choice and certain technical decisions. However, the good news is I do see improvements starting with the W214 so I am optimistic with the facelift W223.

crabman

Yep, I said much the same already. It's good to see that they're listening, and acting upon these issues. I'm here because I may buy another. I short leased the current car and should be in a good position for the refresh on this, the Lucid Air, and the 7, just have to see who brings what. A wild card is that I'm interested in trying an EV, and if someone gets that right, I'll jump over and give one a spin. There are already EVs that meet my needs in every way, Lucid for range, 7 for ride and comfort, and so on, just have to get it all on the same car.

SW20S

I agree with all of this. I will also say that in my 222 there were NO areas that I felt were lower quality than they should be, which is a sign that no they did not do as good a job overall inside the 223 as they did in the 222. But, the car has other big benefits like the much better faster operating tech (COMAND in the 222 was incredibly slow), the native infotainment is much much better to where I don't use CarPlay any longer, the audio system is dramatically better, ride is better, quietness is better. So, there are some tradeoffs but the balance of the tradeoffs benefit the 223 IMO having had both.

crabman

Agree, the GUI is snappy enough, the layout has room for improvement but, but is still the best in the business. I also stayed in the cars GUI, everything worked great, and it removed the need to sometimes go back and forth between Android Auto and the stock system. I'm with BMWs latest and greatest and I have to go between the two, a much less satisfactory situation.

The real problems I see with the controls are that they moved too many frequently used functions into the GUI, and the capacitive controls. It's one of the things they say they're addressing in the refresh, and seeing that fixed will be a big win. My guess is the system will be much better appreciated after they get there.