https://www.carscoops.com/2025/08/me...ets-with-cars/

 

When are they finally going to show Ola the door? This guy seems to have no clue. The whole uber luxury push was his idea and now he is making a 180. I said back then already this wasn't going to work. Market and economic conditions aside, the brand has gone downhill since he took over. He put sales and marketing people in charge instead of true car enthusiasts. I wonder how many billions they wasted on developing 4 cylinder hybrid powertrains for the bread and butter AMGs just to discontinue them now because they were a complete flop. It isn't like we didn't see this coming. Tobias Moers left the sinking ship after these decisions were made. Sad to see the brand go to waste.

 

I saw the same article. Crazy.

 

If they think that people like us are going to become equivalent to owners of Genesis (poor service, hideous dealerships etc), they have another thing coming. Mind you Genesis is making a decent product at a very attractive pricepoint.

Dilute the brand even further and this will be my last Mercedes. Perhaps the S classes we currently own will become the last of the breed or take on the Maybach nameplate (at a huge premium and finally self closing doors...looking at you BMW)??

Either way, if this article is true, adios MB!!

 

Not shocking considering the past five years. I was shocked, but also predicted it back in 2020 when manufacturers such as Mercedes has no ability to deal with the supply side issues. Manufacturing theory that reduces inventory for "just in time" production caused a mess for them. In my company, I always prepared for massive delays, which kept more items in inventory but we never had any supply issue ever from our side. Instead of Mercedes realizing they needed a new manufacturing model back then, they doubled down on new tech, new platforms, throwaway tech that they could not repair properly or replace with a new sale. They could not even guarantee you'd get what you ordered because the people in charge of production failed so miserably. They didnt see through their greed of rising prices due to limited availability and consumer panic to understand that people cannot afford to overpay once, let alone will never do it twice. The majority of buyers from that time still have not recovered to the positive financially. They thought they could cheapen their COGS (costs of goods sold) relatively and raise their prices. The only problem is that their customer wants luxury and, regardless of the few younger rich guys here who say they like the new tech, thats clearly not who buys their cars. Without seeing their books, they have always referred to the most expensive models such as the gclass as very profitable because they were rooted in an old stable design. A bunch of redesign that was never needed for a historically profitable model was a bad decision. When they cheapened amg, that was a bad decision. When they cheapened Maybach, that was a bad choice. When they brought the b and cla classes that was a bad choice. When they think they are going to have their dealers charge 300 bucks an hour labor for a tinker toy car, that will be a nail in the coffin. All of these statements are based on their current price points. When the final edition 63 came out at its pricing, I knew it would never survive as a standard model. Nobody normal is willing to pay a 75% price increase in a few years for a stripper model. Ive said it before but when you see customers pay over nine years for a piece of **** hundred thousand dollar US truck, as a greedy corporate non car person you might choose to also sell **** for high prices with terrible financing. BUT we customers will not continue to support this, I hope. We have seen the cheapening of other industries and the downfall of powerful brands because they could not adapt nor keep their current customers. It doesn't help when idiot governments get in the way of free choice, free trade and fair business practices. Ultimately it won't affect any of us as nobody "needs" a Mercedes ...well until governments start to nationalize the businesses and we aren't allowed to think for ourselves or drive.

Instead of "Hey Mercedes" it might be "Bye Mercedes"

 

FIFY
Anyone who appreciates the modified format, you’re welcome!

 

Lol, Now its not a rant

Sometimes Id like to edit when I revisit the next day, but the overlords here dont want us to have that type of freedom.

 

I am normally on the W213/W214 forum but venture here as well.

I have a 2019 E450 that I want to replace: The MSRP of my car in 2108 was just over $70K. A similarly equipped 2026 E450 is now just over $76K. Not too much of an increase in 7 years. However, I lease: the monthly payments on my 2019 for 36 months, 10K miles per year were $908. (At lease end during covid, no cars were available so I just bought mine and bought a MB extend warranty which ends in December 2026). The lease payments on the 2026 E450 for 48 month, not 36 months, 7.5K miles and not 10K miles is $1203! I said are you guys crazy!!

Turns out the residual is 50% and the MF .0032, 7.68%. I told the dealer I lend money at that rate, not borrow it! The 48 payments total over $57,000 for a $76K car!

Instead I leased a better equipped 2026 BMW 540i for 39 months, not 48 months, 7.5K miles per year for $885. That is a savings of over $300 per month, 48 months savings of over $14K

Mercedes has competition. I wonder who in their right mind will lease a Mercedes E450 vs. a BMW 540I?

 

Thats the impact of interest rates, 2019 was another world. BMWs also have always had much better leases. When you leased your 2019 you probably could have leased a comparable 5 series for $200 less a month.

Who would lease the Mercedes? I would. The E450 is a much nicer car than the new 5 Series IMO, I would pay the $300 more per month to get what I want. The lease payment on my S580 is $300 more than a comparable 760i and $550 more a month than a comparable i7, but thats what I wanted.

The 2026s just landed too, if you waited a little bit lease deals would have improved a lot. They're still clearing 2025 E Classes and thats where the lease support is. Just pulled the numbers for a 2025, for 36 months the E450 is .00142 (3.4%), and 53% residual for 10k,

 

Actually no. I came out of a BMW 535i because the E350 leased better

That is exactly what I thought until I did an extensive test drive in the BMW. To me they were very much comparable. The days of "hard ride, driving machine" for the 5 series is over. The new 5 series leans more towards luxury plus there is more room in the back seat vs. the E450. As a slight extra bonus, service for 3 years is included another savings of close to $2000.

Where I do agree with you is in the S Class vs. either the BMW 740i, or the Audi 8. There the S class might and probably is worth the extra money. Also keep in mind that the BMW 5 and Mercedes E450 apply to a much broader spectrum of buyers than either the Mercedes S Class, MBW 7 series or Audi 8. The 5 and E class are much more comparable than the S, 7 and Audi 8. Buyers cross shop the BMW 5 with the Mercedes E, not so much with the S class where pricing is less important.[/QUOTE]

Maybe yes and maybe no: There are virtually no E450 in dealer's stock - only E350 and the E450's I found not one had the Driver's assistance package, which as a safety feature I had on my 2019 and must have on the 2026.. Given time the residual will not change - they are highest when the car is introduced which is now. The interest rate is extremely high and it is anyone's guess whether Mercedes will reduce them. Then you must factor in going forward the affect of tariffs.

Just calculated the lease payments for 36 months using your MF of .0012 and residual of 53%, MSRP of $76,720, discount of 5%, $3836, acquisition fee of $795, the monthly payments including NYS Sales Tax is $1202.

As I posted that is $300 a month more than the BMW 540.

PS: Apples to Apples: Just went back to the lease on my 2019 E450: the residual 10K miles was 60% vs. 53% on the 2026. That 7% difference, over $5,000 with interest and taxes, increases the monthly payment by over $175 a month. If the the residual on the 2026 were the same as on the 2019, the monthly payments would have been just over $1000 a month - not $1200 a month.

 

Many (if not most) of MB line of vehicles are not what I consider "luxury" by todays standards. MB Tex is just a fancy word for plastic seats.
The 2025 GLC loaner I just returned was quite spartan. It did ride nice and quiet but for less $, more options and much higher reliability there are many other vehicles for people to choose. I like the way my MB's drive and handle but they charge way too much for service and parts and they are in the shop way too often. I have multiple vehicles in my fleet with over 300k miles that rarely needed anything and were in the shop much less than my MB's.
MB needs to improve reliability and reign in service costs. Selling more cars that they will need to fix will make it worse for them IMO

 

The new 5 series rides and drives great, but the interior is so full of cheap plastic and I don’t like the styling. The new E Class is a much nicer car IMO, I would pay more for one.

The calculation above for the 2026 has no dealer discount. If you negotiate the price the payment would be much better. For example I’m only paying $600 more a month for my S580 with an MSRP of $140k.

 

I have been in both: I find both virtually the same: both have done away with real wood and leather. Perhaps that is why the price from my 2019 E450 at $70,000 only went up $6,000 to $76,000 for the 2026 E450. This is less than 2% a year and we all know that since Covid inflation has gone up much, much more. You can only do so much cost savings by automation: the rest of the savings has to come out of vehicle content.

The monthly lease payment of $1203 was for 48 months, 7.5K miles per year and included a 5% discount off of MSRP, $3,836, the acquisition fee and NYS sales tax.

If you go to the MBUSA website, configure your E450, put in a discount, you will see that that the monthly payments for a 48 month lease are substantially less than for a 36 month lease. The same for an S Class. (For an S Class with a MSRP of $129,950 with no down payment the 36 month payment is $2441. The monthly payment on 48 months no down payment is $2190)

Sometimes there can be exceptions: for the 5 series, the 39 month lease was cheaper than the 36 or 42 month lease.



With regard to your payment of $600 more per month: If your lease is for 48 months, with a 50% residual that represents about a $50/53,000 difference in price. Add that to the $76,000 MSRP and you are at about $126/129,000 pretty close to your MSRP of $140,000 after discounting the MSRP.

Calculations as follows: $600 X 48 = 28,800 X 2 (50% residual) $57,000. Part of this $57,000 goes to depreciation and balance to interest. If your interest rate was 2%, then the part to interest was roughly $3,500/4,000 leaving the balance to be applied to depreciation.

 

I've been in both too, the difference in material quality is huge. E450 has plenty of real wood and leather, the whole dash can be wood if you don't get the superscreen. 5 Series is full of hard plastic and piano black plastic and the E doesn't have any of that. Love the interior in the 7 but the 5 is a total no go for me.

Of course 48 month leases are cheaper. I have no doubt I could get that E450 under $1,000 a month for 48 months. The online manufacturer websites tell you nothing, you have to calculate it yourself. On a $140k MSRP 48 months I am $1,800 with $0 down, so $2,190 on a $130k car is obviously absurd.

Plenty of wood:

 

Just ran the numbers. On an E450 with a $76k MSRP and a 5% discount, 48 months, 50% residual and the MF stated above for 2025, first month drive off taxes included I'm at $988.



Spec'ed how I would spec the car I'm at $1,205:

 

Having been leasing since the mid 1980's I think I know my way around leasing: In a lease there are only four variables: MF, residual, length of term and cap cost. The MF and residual are fixed by Mercedes Benz Financial. The MSRP is what it is and the residual is a percentage of the MSRP. What is left is the cap cost reduction and length of term: the Cap Cost reduction can either be in the form of a down payment, the value of trade in, a discount from the dealer or incentives from the manufacturer. In the quote from my dealer, included was a discount of 5% off of MSRP. I choose the term with the lowest monthly rate that would still be under the manufacturer's warranty, 48 months.

Your lease confirms what I have been posting: It is substantially less than today on a similarly spec car.. That is not because you received a discount and I did not, but because the MF, (interest rate), is much higher than before, .0032, 7.68% and residual for 36 months is only 53% vs. 60% previously.



Before you post that "I have no doubt I could get that E450 under $1,000 a month for 48 months" I suggest you first check with your dealer and only after checking with your dealer post your results: Remember to use as the MSRP $76,720, no money down and all taxes and fees, including acquisition fee are rolled into the lease. I would be shocked if you came up with $1,100 never mind under a $1,000.


With regard to the picture below, you failed to mention that wood below is a $1,715 extra cost option.





[/QUOTE]

 

I've been leasing cars for 20 years myself. Residials are fixed by MBFS BUT dealers mark MFs up all the time. You need to know the wholesale money factor. That calculation I posted is the calculation for a 2025 E450 with a 5% discount and the wholesale MF full stop, if the dealer quotes you more than that they are fleecing you somewhere in the deal. I bet that MF they quoted you is marked up, I can't get the wholesale MF yet because they haven't been released by MBFS.

Thats my point, if you found a 2025 you would have been able to get a better deal, and if you waited a couple months the deals would improve dramatically on the 2026s once they move their 2025 inventory. The 2026s are just now arriving at dealers, you can't even spec one on MBUSA yet. Worst time to lease a 2026.

Look at the calculation I just posted, thats under $1000. Thats a 2025, wont get that yet on a 26 but I would be able to get that in a few months.



THAT wood is. Wood trim though is standard. This wood is standard. $0.







​​​

 

I do not know how tax is calculated in Maryland.

In New York the tax is based on the sum of the payments. Without tax, my lease calculator comes up with monthly payment of $892.00. For 48 months that is $42,832. The tax would be $3694. When the $3694 is put into the lease this is an additional $89.28 bringing your monthly payments to $981.28.

The only problem is that the MF is not .00142. The correct MF is .0032.

When the correct MF of .0032 is used, your monthly payment goes from $892 to $1,090. The tax on $1090 is $4512. When the tax is included in the lease the monthly payments increase by $117.79 for a monthly total of $1208.

Hope this clarifies.

 

In MD you pay taxes on the whole sales price, not just the lease payments. So in this scenario the taxes are 6% of $72,200 or $4,332. They are built into that lease price I posted already.

Quote:

The only problem is that the MF is not .00142. The correct MF is .0032.

That is the MF on a 2025, .00142. That was my point, the MF on a 2026 will come down to be similar to the 2025 MF once they clear the 2025 inventory. I bet the MF on a 2026 is not actually .0032 and that the dealership was marking that up, I don't have access to the retail MFs for 2026 yet, MBFS hasn't released them because the cars are just now on the ground. Essentially what they are doing is showing you a 5% discount and then marking up the MF to take that 5% back from you without you realizing it. Through negotiation you can negotiate that out and get the retail MF. I bet the MF is in reality more like .0025.

Now is the worst possible time to lease a 2026 MB, much better to find a 2025 on the ground somewhere. Your dealer can get a car from anywhere.

 

Like so many things in this world, things change.

Your MF is for last year's model 2025. These are for left over E350 - not this years 2026 E450.

There is an old joke that goes like this:



Quoting MF on last year's left over E350's vs. the actual MF on this year's 2026 E450 is like Jerry quoting $5.99 a pound. When Jerry gets in his steak he too will charge $7.99 a pound. Like Jerry when he has steak, when you check with your dealer the MF on the new 2026 E450 will be .0032..


While the MB site may not have this year's prices the dealers do: the new base price on the E450 is $72,300 about 1.8% higher than the base price on the 2025 E450.

Finally as to the best time to lease:

There are two schools of thought: I think we can all agree that the residual is the highest when the car first comes out. All things being equal the higher the residual the lower the payment. As we move through the year the residual decreases.

The offset is that as the year progresses, but depending on how sales are going, incentives and discounts may increase, which partially offsets the decease in the residual. Waiting until the spring or summer might bring you a slightly lower payment but then you are now leasing a car that is almost a model year old.

The one "wild card" is the MF: no one, I repeat no one, knows where interest rates will be in 120 days never mind 30 or 60 days.

My experience is that, assuming there is a reasonable discount, the best time to buy for the lowest monthly payments is for delivery in December. Beyond December, the incentives often do not cover the decrease in residuals plus leasing early, December, gives you the most time in a new car.

 

No, that is the money factor for a 2025 E450, not an E350. You're not understanding what I'm saying...if you wanted an E450 you should have found a 2025 on a dealer lot somewhere in the country or waited a few months. In a few months the MFs will come down on 2026 E450s and the delta between it an the 5 Series won't be so big.

I don't get them from the dealer, can't trust the dealer. I get them directly.

In all the times I have leased a car I have never been quoted the retail MF on a lease, never. They always try and mark it up, once I let them know I have the retail MF they back off.

All depends on the math. Usually the higher residual doesn't make the payment lower on the new model car vs the lower MF and bigger discount on the previous model year at this time in the year. If it does, then get the new model year. As you found out right now though MBFS and dealers aren't working to sell 2026s they are focused on clearing out 2025s. The car is identical, if you want the best deal the 2025 is the way to go.

We do because the MFs are set by MBFS to move product. If they keep the MF high on the 2026s they won't move any of them, it will come down.

I have done very well this time of year on the previous year model. I leased my 2024 S580 in July of last year and did great. December is also a good time, 2026 E Class deals will be much better in December.

 

I have no idea where you are coming form. What I do know is that you are quoting a MF on last year's models and to boot on E350's as there are practically zero 2025 E450 with driver assist available. Of course the dealer's want to move last year's inventory and one way is to lower the MF. You are leasing a one year old car!

What I do know is that I contacted several MB dealers and each quoted the same residual and MF and similar lease payments - both of which are set by MB Financial and not the dealer.. All have build slots available that they want to fill. All want to make a sale.

To compare apples to apples suggest you contact the dealer who quoted you the MF on the left over 2025's and ask him the money factor on the 2026 E450's and then re-post.

As to your post:

For every E450 a dealer orders there are 20 E350's. Dealers stock 350's not 450's so finding one with the equipment you want is very difficult. That is why I order and delivery is for December which you point out is an excellent time to take delivery.

If you do not buy from a dealer than I guess you buy from a third party. My experience is that while the third party can save you time, they must also be paid. Anytime you have a middleman, you can expect to pay more. I live in the NY Metor area. With the internet and over 20 dealers within 20 miles, each competing for your business, I have never found a third party to be cheaper than a dealer - more convenient but not cheaper.

 

Again, I don’t get MFs from dealers. I have a database I have access to where I look them up. That is the MF on a 2025 E450, not an E350. My database does not yet have the lease programs for the 2026.

I buy from dealers but I go into the negotiation already knowing all the programs and the rebates. If you’re not doing that you’re getting screwed.

You posted “why would anybody lease the E Class” the answer is in a couple months the lease payments won’t be that different. You shopped a 2026 E Class at the most expensive time of the year to lease one. The E will be $100 or so more than a comparable 5 Series once MBUSA starts supporting them. Mercedes leases are almost always a little bit more expensive and their buyers pay that additional amount because they like the product better.

 

As a young person my father taught me a lesson: I said the price in the newspaper for a stock was lower than he was buying it and why? My father told me to buy it from the newspaper. Until you can lease a car from your data base, I will go with the quotes from the dealers who actually sell the car. Unlike you data base MB dealers already have MF, residuals and price for the 2026 models. Maybe you should use a different more up to date data base.

Everyone informed buyer does the same or should do the same. That is what I do. Nothing special here.


The question was if a fully loaded 540i with more equipment leases for $300 a month less than a E450, why would anyone lease the E Class: It is a rhetorical question.

But maybe you are correct, people will vote with their feet and hurry over to BMW, Mercedes sales will tank and MB will be forced to lower their MF and raise their residuals - or maybe not!

Only time will tell. In the meantime I am satisfied to have said over $14,000 by going from the Mercedes E450 to the BMW 540i - plus I saved another $2K as BMW service for the first 3 years is free.

Blind brand loyalty as you seem to have, has its costs.

 

I have leased many, many cars using my database of lease programs lol. Keep getting screwed if you want, if you think dealers are honest with you, that’s incredibly naive. If they are talking to you they are lying. I’m sorry that you have thought all these years that the dealer had to give you the retail money factor, that has cost you a lot of money.

I have no brand loyalty. This is the second Mercedes I have ever had. I just am extremely knowledgeable and experienced with leasing. I hope you enjoy your 540, it’s a great car I just wouldn’t choose one over a E450 personally. I think the E is the nicer car. I’m not somebody who chooses the cheapest thing, I get what I like the most and make the best deal on it I can.

Of course dealers have the numbers, they just haven’t been updated in the database yet. I will post the numbers when they come in. What do you want to bet that money factor they quoted you is marked up? I would bet any amount of money.

EDIT: I submitted a request for the numbers to be updated. Will post when they are.