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I think the biggest issues with modern cars versus some of the older ones is software related. These things are more mobile computers than mechanical devices. And, we all know how crappy software can be. Look at Microsoft, they’ve been doing it since the 70s, and that’s all they do, but their damn software still has bugs out the whazoo. Refining older cars was more about real engineering, a qualitative element they can see, hear and feel. Not anymore. Now it’s all about mobile blue screens of death.
Software is going to be the biggest quality control problem for car manufacturers assuming that is not already the case. That’s why previous generation of cars felt more polished, because the quality control on those cars were a physical manifestation versus millions of line of code.
Last edited by Frenetic; Dec 13, 2025 at 01:18 PM.
I think the biggest issues with modern cars versus some of the older ones is software related. These things are more mobile computers than mechanical devices. And, we all know how crappy software can be. Look at Microsoft, they’ve been doing it since the 70s, and that’s all they do, but their damn software still has bugs out the whazoo. Refining older cars was more about real engineering, a qualitative element they can see, hear and feel. Not anymore. Now it’s all about mobile blue screens of death.
Software is going to be the biggest quality control problem for car manufacturers assuming that is not already the case. That’s why previous generation of cars felt more polished, because the quality control on those cars were a physical manifestation versus millions of line of code.
Since Microsoft was brought in to the discussion, if I recalled correctly, they admitted they used AI to write code for Windows 11. There were couple of major problems, a few years ago, the "My document" files were being deleted permanently after a software update resulting in massive data loss for end users. Only recently, there was an update that corrupted SSDs which also resulted in massive data loss. They should hire proper human to write code moving on forward, I think?
MB is big on AI lately so I am not sure if they used AI to write some code as well.
I cannot remember if it was my 2018 or my first 2020 S560, but one of those cars performed full on, panic stops for absolutely no apparent reason, scaring the hell out of me, THREE TIMES, over a period of several months. MB came back with “system is operating as designed.” My 2022 S580 did it twice. All incidents were on wide open roadways with no other vehicles, pedestrians or animals within perhaps 100+ feet of my car.
To be fair, my current BMW I7 has slammed on the brakes once, for no apparent reason, but only for a split second, not bringing the car to a full stop.
My experience with MB's AEB is that it usually comes to a rolling stop and not a complete stop, not sure when they changed to a full stop. That said, it is an issue across manufactuers, I mean I rather have it when I don't need it than not have it when I do need it, perhaps MB can fine tune the sensitivity more to try to reduce the amount of false positives. There are several threads with mutliple pages on this forum on MB's system suddenly braking, I think I saw one or two in the GLE section, some others are in the GLC section. The consensus is, yes it is frightening but so far (other than the video linked above) no actual collision was resulted of the activation of the system reported yet.
'06 MB S55 AMG; '04 Audi Allroad 4.2; '05 BMW M3 Conv.; '92 MB 500E
Originally Posted by Streamliner
I am posting this here, merely as a discussion point. MB had horrible issues with the W223 when first launched and for at least two years into production. The same was true for the R232 SL’s and other post MY20 new model introductions. This new CLA220 Hybrid appears to show that MB is STILL bringing new models to market without proper testing & sorting. This is really a sad state of affairs for MB. Will they EVER get back to “The Best or Nothing,” or have they just thrown in the towel?
This has always been the case, it seems to me. It’s how “always buy the last model year” became a thing. Real world application over a term of years and a span of different circumstances will always educate the engineers. Hence the mid-model “facelift” and other technical changes, to apply the newly accumulated knowledge. I never buy the first year for just this reason, and never a first year Sonderklasse. Why never a first year Sonderklasse because MB has always innovated first with that model, recouped most of its R&D budget with that model’s pricing and profit margin, then moved the tech down the line to make more profit off of it. The EClass (and to a lesser extent the SL Class and C Class) are what they are because they’re always carrying a bunch of SClass tech. No other manufacturer can compete with that, by and large.
So always buy the last model year, never the first.
That’s sort of my view on this discussion.
maw
EDIT … it also occurs to me that because people just lease cars instead of buying them, this old sage advice has probably gotten “buried in the Internet noise”
False triggers on AEB are unfortunately just a reality. It’s not an MB issue. I had it happen in a Jeep and one of my Lexus LSs, hasn’t happened in either MB.
If you've tracked this youtuber and most of his other videos, he tends to only focus and report the "good" stuff. Which is great; we need this optimism sometimes in our life. When he does that, he tends to glorifies the cars quite a bit. A good example is his Rolls-Royce comment.. I mean come on lol.
I like YouTube review videos, and I use that to get to know the car a bit more. But until I experience the car myself, it's hard for me to believe or relate to any of what most YouTubers say. It's disappointing because they drove cars more than most of us.
This car with full EV drivetrain looks like a very well executed car though. It's good compared to the Tesla Model 3 for example. It has the big screens that those buyers are okay with, and even bigger screens, but most existing Mbenz buyers still prefer a more classy dash even in entry models (just my guess). Good job with the seats by the way, and going with the Burmester sound system. At this point every entry model Mbenz/german car should have a premium sound system as standard.
Reviewers are full of endless superlatives nowadays. Everything is “library-silent” with a magic carpet ride.
Edmunds and Consumer Reports are a little better in this regard, but I only trust folks on forums who actually live with these vehicles and have no financial dependency on car companies. Drawing any sort of comparison to RR is outrageous.
The proliferation of sensors is another indirect drawback of the computerification of cars. The stupid check engine light I had was due to some random sensor conflict due to a software glitch. Car was perfectly fine, mind you. A decade ago chances are that sensor and lines of code for that sensor didn’t even exist.
Originally Posted by SW20S
False triggers on AEB are unfortunately just a reality. It’s not an MB issue. I had it happen in a Jeep and one of my Lexus LSs, hasn’t happened in either MB.
I am posting this here, merely as a discussion point. MB had horrible issues with the W223 when first launched and for at least two years into production. The same was true for the R232 SL’s and other post MY20 new model introductions. This new CLA220 Hybrid appears to show that MB is STILL bringing new models to market without proper testing & sorting. This is really a sad state of affairs for MB. Will they EVER get back to “The Best or Nothing,” or have they just thrown in the towel?
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
Originally Posted by BusinessService
Nearly all the 2022 SLs' were buy backs. Mercedes Benz blew off the owners until they got attorneys.
After the fiascos with my last three S Class sedans, I STILL would have been a potential customer for the R232 SL, just because the SL’s have been a “thing” with me since the early 1970’s. I’ve had 8 of them and even though I rarely drive my current 2019, had the new model been an improved, “continuation” of the last several generations of the luxury GT, I was looking forward to a new one. But when they ditched the absolutely fabulous retractable hardtop and palmed off the design to AMG—to give the world yet another unneeded rocket sled—sans virtually all the luxuriousness and everything that was great about the previous model, I gave up. All they had to do was to keep the best features of the R231 and improve everything else and they would have knocked it out of the park. But they just had to try and build another 911 and, in my opinion, they failed miserably.
Couple all of the above with perhaps the most ill timed, intensely issue fraught launch in modern history and MB ended up losing a tremendous number of incredibly loyal SL buyers —such as myself—while completely alienating most of the younger buyers that the new car was supposed to attract. Game, set & match to the competition.
I never heard that about the R231 vs the R230. We owned both a pre and post facelift R230 and now have a post facelift R231. The R231 is better than the R230 in every way. As for the R232, it is a slightly stretched GT with SL badges glued on it. If a buyer wants a nice GT it is a good choice. It is not in any way an SL in my opinion. Now we have an R232 Maybach version as well. I plan to keep driving my SL65, there is nothing that MB is currently offering in a roadster that calls to me.
I never heard that about the R231 vs the R230. We owned both a pre and post facelift R230 and now have a post facelift R231. The R231 is better than the R230 in every way. As for the R232, it is a slightly stretched GT with SL badges glued on it. If a buyer wants a nice GT it is a good choice. It is not in any way an SL in my opinion. Now we have an R232 Maybach version as well. I plan to keep driving my SL65, there is nothing that MB is currently offering in a roadster that calls to me.
Oh yeah, for whatever reason lots of people just hate it. I like them personally.
First off, let’s say that this Mercedes-Benz SL is not a bad car per se. However, if you can’t remember seeing this car in flesh or if you are completely oblivious to its very existence, we can’t blame you, because the R231 SL was definitely the least present and the least recognizable of them all. But why is that so?
In short, it was a cannibalistic in-house competition that got the SL to its lowest point ever. Stuck in the middle between the ultra-capable AMG GTC roadster and the opulent S-Class Cabriolet, the R231 SL was struggling to get its market share, especially with the younger audience. Moreover, despite all weight reduction compared to the previous generation and regardless of Mercedes-Benz keeping the V12-powered SL65 AMG version, the R231 SL was universally perceived as a sedated cruiser.
So, just like the R107 in the late 1980s, it was a go-to car for well-off retirees, a loyal but hardly ideal clientele. Unlike the R107 though, the R231 never shined as an SL, and as such it occupies the last place on our list.
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
Originally Posted by SW20S
…………….
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Yeah, it’s an ugly duckling to some, but is considered quite lovely by many others. AND, it was and is an awesome bargain and it drives just SOOOOO NICE!
Same, I love the R231...no clue why people feel that way. I love how long and wide they look.
The new R232 is a good looking car, it just doesn't "feel" like an SL...hard to put my finger on why. They're too sporty IMO, not enough of a GT feel. I would choose a Lexus LC500 over an R232 for sure.
We seem to have detoured from the original post. But since we have: I owned a 2019 SL450 for two years. Liked it. But it had so many creaks and groans from body flex that it made my S580 feel like a bank vault. It also had the cheapest sounding radio--reminded me of the AM radios in cars I drove in the 1960's. But it was sexy. Sold it because convertible season is short in Maine so it mainly just sat in the garage.
The only part of the R232 that I like is the rear (I think the rear looks awesome). Otherwise, the front and interior of the R231 is just so classy. The interior is flawless for a coupe especially in the colors that Streamliner has.
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
Originally Posted by TulsaVic
We seem to have detoured from the original post. But since we have: I owned a 2019 SL450 for two years. Liked it. But it had so many creaks and groans from body flex that it made my S580 feel like a bank vault. It also had the cheapest sounding radio--reminded me of the AM radios in cars I drove in the 1960's. But it was sexy. Sold it because convertible season is short in Maine so it mainly just sat in the garage.
I agree that the audio systems are horrible in the R231’s, whether you stayed with the HK or popped for the B&O. But “creaks & groans???” My car is absolutely “THE” most solid convertible I have ever driven and over in the R231 forums, these types of complaints are almost nonexistent. Did you get your car brand new?
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
Originally Posted by nearwater4me
People don't like or accept changes I guess.
I personally think the R232 is drop dead gorgeous.
I like the exterior design of the R232 as well, but they simply softened the existing AMG GTC design and it feels warmed over. Most folks can’t tell the difference. But it’s not the exterior design I have a problem with, it is EVERYTHING else. I won’t go through the long list.
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
At the price point of the R232, especially the SL63, going for an Aston-Martin instead seems like a no brainer. WAY more cachet and the luxurious interior is magnificent compared to the MB. I will again voice my opinion about “half black” interiors: To me, they look cheap and reminiscent of 1980’s GM cars. Full color coordinated interiors are just SO much classier.
I agree that the audio systems are horrible in the R231’s, whether you stayed with the HK or popped for the B&O. But “creaks & groans???” My car is absolutely “THE” most solid convertible I have ever driven and over in the R231 forums, these types of complaints are almost nonexistent. Did you get your car brand new?
No. It was part of an estate auction. Had 10,000 miles on the odometer, so the previous owner drove it about as much as I did. Interior and exterior were in showroom condition. I did own a C300 convertible--lthe first year they came out, 2016, and it was much quieter and creak-free, so I was surprised how noisy the SL was.
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.
