The new 2027 S-Class: The Walkaround
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BMW needs to get together with one of the major tire companies to build a tire just for the I7, using every available sound deadening technology known. I currently am running Pirelli PZ4 tires which are the best yet, but Rolls-Royce uses the PZ4 on their Spectre and the tires sized for the Spectre have foam sound deadening material in them, but the PZ4’s that fit my I7 don’t. Go figure. AND, the PZ4’s are wearing out unbelievably fast—and I drive very conservatively. A bit more insulation around the wheel wells would be welcomed as well.
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The role of acoustic foam is actually only there to reduce thumps based on road imperfections. Yes minimizing tread noise is one avenue but after these quick wins the laws of diminishing returns rears is its ugly head. I have no doubt the amount of insulation in a W140 is significantly more than what is found on present generation electrically powered executive sedans. This is going to be an interesting Journey because last I heard Rolls-Royce is planning to go full electric as well. I suspect it'll be many years though.
I'm certainly glad LFP is finding its way into electric cars because that is the right battery chemistry to use. Unfortunately there is still a massive flaw that is not solved for save for some vehicles and I have no idea if BMW is doing this. By the way I absolutely adore the interior of the 7 series. I can't stand the exterior but that interior is gorgeous.
The problem with lfp batteries or all lithium ion batteries in general is that they don't like any temperatures that human beings don't like. In particular the issue is on hot days when the car is just parked. Yes while the car may be charging or when the car is running the battery is actively cooled. However when the car is just sitting there on a hot summer day in the interior of the car is 60 or 70° c or whatever it is the battery is literally dying. This is a problem that can be only solved by letting the coolant run while the car is parked which would kill EV range or if you keep the car plugged in for cars that are smart enough to cool itself off when it's hot enough out.
Again this is not a problem if you just lease the car but I certainly hope we don't get into a society where we are simply disposing of electric cars every 4 years.
Ignorance truly is bliss and I am directing this comment to myself for brevity. The more I learned about battery electric cars the more I quickly realized I will never be one of the people who support them but I respect people who choose them.
It has been many years since I seriously thought about an electric car but this thread actually made me pause. 320 MI is incredibly short range wise and I'm actually surprised at that. But then again I have no doubt a significant amount of mileage is being given up due to the weight that BMW needs to have in order to keep the 7 quiet. I honestly thought mileage and range would be much higher by now. However use cases are different. I don't live in the city so I get it that 320 miles is probably sufficient for the vast majority of people
I'm certainly glad LFP is finding its way into electric cars because that is the right battery chemistry to use. Unfortunately there is still a massive flaw that is not solved for save for some vehicles and I have no idea if BMW is doing this. By the way I absolutely adore the interior of the 7 series. I can't stand the exterior but that interior is gorgeous.
The problem with lfp batteries or all lithium ion batteries in general is that they don't like any temperatures that human beings don't like. In particular the issue is on hot days when the car is just parked. Yes while the car may be charging or when the car is running the battery is actively cooled. However when the car is just sitting there on a hot summer day in the interior of the car is 60 or 70° c or whatever it is the battery is literally dying. This is a problem that can be only solved by letting the coolant run while the car is parked which would kill EV range or if you keep the car plugged in for cars that are smart enough to cool itself off when it's hot enough out.
Again this is not a problem if you just lease the car but I certainly hope we don't get into a society where we are simply disposing of electric cars every 4 years.
Ignorance truly is bliss and I am directing this comment to myself for brevity. The more I learned about battery electric cars the more I quickly realized I will never be one of the people who support them but I respect people who choose them.
It has been many years since I seriously thought about an electric car but this thread actually made me pause. 320 MI is incredibly short range wise and I'm actually surprised at that. But then again I have no doubt a significant amount of mileage is being given up due to the weight that BMW needs to have in order to keep the 7 quiet. I honestly thought mileage and range would be much higher by now. However use cases are different. I don't live in the city so I get it that 320 miles is probably sufficient for the vast majority of people
Last edited by superangrypenguin; May 16, 2026 at 02:50 PM.
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This thread made me curious, so I checked. Looks like Rolls Royce just joined the bandwagon with no longer going to pure EV. I seriously seriously wonder if and when Mercedes, BMW, and the like also do the same because, surely, it costs them a ton of money to make both EV and ICE? In a perfect World though, I'd argue they should offer both but in the end this ICE vs EV debate will be, properly, settled not by words but by wallet share and cold customer dollars.
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/rolls-...nes-remain-now
This was a statement from BMW as well which I found surprising:
"Earlier this year, BMW Group confirmed it would continue producing combustion engines, including Rolls-Royce’s V12. The company noted it can meet Euro 7 emissions standards with updates to components like the exhaust system."
Per: https://www.motor1.com/news/790514/r...eps-v12-alive/
Personally I've never understood the appeal of Spectre. Going EV in a Rolls Royce is cheating. The whole point of these vehicles is the overengineering involved to silent out a massive V12. Again, my POV, though I was surprised to see the Spectre demand plummet from launch though still narrowly beating the Ghost (which has been on sale forever). This is per the link above.
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/rolls-...nes-remain-now
This was a statement from BMW as well which I found surprising:
"Earlier this year, BMW Group confirmed it would continue producing combustion engines, including Rolls-Royce’s V12. The company noted it can meet Euro 7 emissions standards with updates to components like the exhaust system."
Per: https://www.motor1.com/news/790514/r...eps-v12-alive/
Personally I've never understood the appeal of Spectre. Going EV in a Rolls Royce is cheating. The whole point of these vehicles is the overengineering involved to silent out a massive V12. Again, my POV, though I was surprised to see the Spectre demand plummet from launch though still narrowly beating the Ghost (which has been on sale forever). This is per the link above.
Last edited by superangrypenguin; May 16, 2026 at 03:40 PM.
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Yeah, the question is for how long. I was not aware at all as to the dire situation of Mercedes Benz's present situation.
This is quite an interesting read.
https://www.topspeed.com/ev-financial-disaster/
For better or for worse. Published yesterday. That said the EQS is a hideous looking car so Mercedes got what they deserved. Hopefully it was a one off failure and no doubt the high price of gas will have an effect on EV adoption though it's unclear for all of us in our tax bracket if that will change our behaviour.
This was another: https://sharpmagazine.com/2025/10/07...strategy-2026/
"In 2022, Mercedes-Benz chief executive officer Ola Källenius told The Verge, “We have made a clear and definitive decision that we are going all-in on electric. In fact, as of 2025, all new vehicle architectures for Mercedes — on which we will have several different models — will be electric-only.”
By 2024, the company was pushing back sales targets for electrified vehicles; targeting 50 percent electrified sales by 2030, rather than 2025. Through 2024, sales of electrified vehicles were stagnant globally, hovering at just around 20 percent of overall volume. The company noted “weak EV demand” as one of the reasons last year’s sales results were down slightly. Operating margins took a hit, too."
My opinion is that Jaguar's complete reboot and massive bet on 1 EV "sedan" will be the end of the brand. I full well expect them to fall on their face, sadly.
This is quite an interesting read.
https://www.topspeed.com/ev-financial-disaster/
For better or for worse. Published yesterday. That said the EQS is a hideous looking car so Mercedes got what they deserved. Hopefully it was a one off failure and no doubt the high price of gas will have an effect on EV adoption though it's unclear for all of us in our tax bracket if that will change our behaviour.
This was another: https://sharpmagazine.com/2025/10/07...strategy-2026/
"In 2022, Mercedes-Benz chief executive officer Ola Källenius told The Verge, “We have made a clear and definitive decision that we are going all-in on electric. In fact, as of 2025, all new vehicle architectures for Mercedes — on which we will have several different models — will be electric-only.”
By 2024, the company was pushing back sales targets for electrified vehicles; targeting 50 percent electrified sales by 2030, rather than 2025. Through 2024, sales of electrified vehicles were stagnant globally, hovering at just around 20 percent of overall volume. The company noted “weak EV demand” as one of the reasons last year’s sales results were down slightly. Operating margins took a hit, too."
My opinion is that Jaguar's complete reboot and massive bet on 1 EV "sedan" will be the end of the brand. I full well expect them to fall on their face, sadly.
Last edited by superangrypenguin; May 16, 2026 at 03:55 PM.
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That’s interesting Streamliner! The factory tires I removed from my 7 had the foam in them. I still have them stored by the way if you want them, lol, and they are mostly new or in good condition. I still managed to get rid of all of the tire road noise 100% from the tires by installing Michelin, but I had to install 10 mm wider tires than factory, which I don’t mind at all. Stance looks nicer. I still get 320 miles of estimated range. Those tires are now more silent than my baseline and made the car more silent than any other car I have ever driven by miles. I have never been in the Spectre though so I don’t know that baseline, but we have more than one member in the other forum, who interestingly own, both Spectre and the 7, and 2 users reported that the 7 was more silent and also more comfy. Another said they were equal.
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I don't think its going to change, they have invested a lot in both platforms and I think they will continue to offer both. They will ride out the platforms of ICE vehicles they have for longer (hence the second facelift of the GLS and GLE, 223 S Class will likely get two facelifts) to eat some of these losses.
Jaguar is done I agree.
Jaguar is done I agree.
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It would appear that the EQS & I7 are both selling well, not to mention all the Tesla models. I cannot believe that MB & BMW will be willing to cede the EV market to Tesla & others. They will not go “ALL IN” as they had planned to, but I do believe that they will continue with robust EV programs. AND, if & when the political pendulum swings back to the left in the USA, we can be sure that the anti ICE & fossil fuel folks will again be pushing for more electric everything.
Last edited by Streamliner; May 16, 2026 at 04:22 PM.
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This is another thread where we went through the gambit of vehicles that are hypotheticals against the RR in the SUV form factor.
https://www.rangerovers.net/threads/...74383/#replies
We came to the conclusion there is nothing that truly competes with the Range Rover. Many of us either own or have driven the Maybach GLS, Bentayga, Cullinan etc.
That said I do need to acknowledge that when the L460 launched (the present gen Range Rover), the poor reliability definitely was a thing but over the years (especially since Range Rover has extremely long cycles) it's gotten incredibly well, as long as people avoid the PHEVs which are a disaster.
The main issues were:
1) rear brake pads would seemingly die. This was because of poorly optimized torque vectoring for vehicles with Dynamic Response Pro. This issue is fixed
2) Wind noise at excessively high speeds - this is why I had mentioned acoustic glass is required. Most people don't pay the $1100 for extensive leather upgrade and acoustic glass. I don't get why people don't pay for this but in any event as someone who took Cullinan to warp 9.9 lately, be aware of the design limitations of taking a big *** box to very high speeds. You can't get around the laws of physics but if you're a normal person driving at normal people speeds, the Range Rover is stupid quiet. I drive my Range Rover at the PSL, but when I choose to be a mad penguin, I take the sedans.
3) Initial years fit and finish was...mediocre. I was honestly expecting a complete sh** show when I took delivery of mine. I was expecting non German build quality - poor fit and finish, poor paint, etc. I have been exceedingly shocked by how well built and how well painted the vehicle is.
4) Reliability of the I6 and V8 (BMW). There are no large issues with these vehicles.
5) The lack of hard buttons - I got used to it, but yeah I wish there were more buttons like in the pre COVID cars before they got rid of the HVAC module.
6) Massage on the S class was never a strong point (don't ever sit in an A8L - it'll ruin what you think cars can do here!) and it's also mediocre on the Range Rover.
7) SUVs will have more side to side wallow. This is the downsides of looking down on the rest of society.
Other than that, it's a pretty inconsequential ownership experience. I have avoided Range Rovers my *ENTIRE LIFE* as I've feared them like I did COVID. I'm glad to finally own one and if the reliability continues to be solid, my intent is to continue owning them until I'm dead. There's nothing else like it.
PS - The Cayenne is not a competitor. A SQ8 is, maybe, but a Cayenne is not. It rides extremely poorly and the interior quality is atrocious. The car is also very noisy even with acoustic glass. That said, the SQ8 is an extremely comfortable and quiet vehicle, but the tradeoff is that it's pretty low to the ground and lacks presence. It's typical Audi camouflage and I mean that with all the respect in the World. The Cayenne drives like a 911 on stilts though. It's just not luxurious or quiet. If I had to trade in the Range Rover I'd buy a SQ8.
The refreshed GLS looks nice though, especially on the interior. I can't get over all of the stars in the exterior though. I'll deal with it on the post FL S class, but not on the GLS.
https://www.rangerovers.net/threads/...74383/#replies
We came to the conclusion there is nothing that truly competes with the Range Rover. Many of us either own or have driven the Maybach GLS, Bentayga, Cullinan etc.
That said I do need to acknowledge that when the L460 launched (the present gen Range Rover), the poor reliability definitely was a thing but over the years (especially since Range Rover has extremely long cycles) it's gotten incredibly well, as long as people avoid the PHEVs which are a disaster.
The main issues were:
1) rear brake pads would seemingly die. This was because of poorly optimized torque vectoring for vehicles with Dynamic Response Pro. This issue is fixed
2) Wind noise at excessively high speeds - this is why I had mentioned acoustic glass is required. Most people don't pay the $1100 for extensive leather upgrade and acoustic glass. I don't get why people don't pay for this but in any event as someone who took Cullinan to warp 9.9 lately, be aware of the design limitations of taking a big *** box to very high speeds. You can't get around the laws of physics but if you're a normal person driving at normal people speeds, the Range Rover is stupid quiet. I drive my Range Rover at the PSL, but when I choose to be a mad penguin, I take the sedans.
3) Initial years fit and finish was...mediocre. I was honestly expecting a complete sh** show when I took delivery of mine. I was expecting non German build quality - poor fit and finish, poor paint, etc. I have been exceedingly shocked by how well built and how well painted the vehicle is.
4) Reliability of the I6 and V8 (BMW). There are no large issues with these vehicles.
5) The lack of hard buttons - I got used to it, but yeah I wish there were more buttons like in the pre COVID cars before they got rid of the HVAC module.
6) Massage on the S class was never a strong point (don't ever sit in an A8L - it'll ruin what you think cars can do here!) and it's also mediocre on the Range Rover.
7) SUVs will have more side to side wallow. This is the downsides of looking down on the rest of society.
Other than that, it's a pretty inconsequential ownership experience. I have avoided Range Rovers my *ENTIRE LIFE* as I've feared them like I did COVID. I'm glad to finally own one and if the reliability continues to be solid, my intent is to continue owning them until I'm dead. There's nothing else like it.
PS - The Cayenne is not a competitor. A SQ8 is, maybe, but a Cayenne is not. It rides extremely poorly and the interior quality is atrocious. The car is also very noisy even with acoustic glass. That said, the SQ8 is an extremely comfortable and quiet vehicle, but the tradeoff is that it's pretty low to the ground and lacks presence. It's typical Audi camouflage and I mean that with all the respect in the World. The Cayenne drives like a 911 on stilts though. It's just not luxurious or quiet. If I had to trade in the Range Rover I'd buy a SQ8.
The refreshed GLS looks nice though, especially on the interior. I can't get over all of the stars in the exterior though. I'll deal with it on the post FL S class, but not on the GLS.
I wasn't ever a Porsche fan to be honest maybe because the seats I can't ever find comfortable out of the Germans, plus there is the "porsche tax". I understand people believe Porsche as a brand is higher tier than MB, bmw and audi though. I guess when you mention the Q8, people will say it is basically a Urus (specifically talking about the RS Q8) for half the price and less showy. Volkswagen group as a whole shares too many parts.
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Look into Turo. The cars are beat on. BUT seeing a heavily used car is not a bad thing. I also check cars out a couple years old at Carmax. That has shown me that german cars don't hold up to being beat on, you have to treat them well or they become a rattling mess. I found that to be the case with all of them. Lexus vehicles age much better being roughly treated.
I don't feel any regret, I just always have a wandering eye when it comes to cars.
Yeah I would go fairly basic. I would get the interior packs etc. Honestly I would probably get the 6 or the PHEV over the V8. What is yours?
GREAT PHEV from Land Rover, 60 miles of EV range is really great.
I also think I would get the SWB RR vs the LWB, I think it looks "proper" in the SWB the same way the S Class and big sedans look "proper" in the LWB.
I hope they don't ruin the RR with the refresh by adding passenger screens etc
And for me I can write it off which makes it very attractive. it cuts the effective cost of driving the car in half.
I don't feel any regret, I just always have a wandering eye when it comes to cars.
Yeah I would go fairly basic. I would get the interior packs etc. Honestly I would probably get the 6 or the PHEV over the V8. What is yours?
GREAT PHEV from Land Rover, 60 miles of EV range is really great.
I also think I would get the SWB RR vs the LWB, I think it looks "proper" in the SWB the same way the S Class and big sedans look "proper" in the LWB.
I hope they don't ruin the RR with the refresh by adding passenger screens etc
And for me I can write it off which makes it very attractive. it cuts the effective cost of driving the car in half.
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Re: Rolls Royce
Interesting, EVs are very quiet and as expected which fits the company's philosophy well.
That said, it can't be too quiet:https://www.afr.com/life-and-luxury/...0201019-p566b7
Interesting, EVs are very quiet and as expected which fits the company's philosophy well.
That said, it can't be too quiet:https://www.afr.com/life-and-luxury/...0201019-p566b7
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Thanks for posting your experience. Yes, Range Rover reliability was always something that forum members here that were shopping between both, were using as a determining factor if they would to purchase or not. They said they don't want a vehicle in the shop more than on their driveway, I can understand that.
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It would appear that the EQS & I7 are both selling well, not to mention all the Tesla models. I cannot believe that MB & BMW will be willing to cede the EV market to Tesla & others. They will not go “ALL IN” as they had planned to, but I do believe that they will continue with robust EV programs. AND, if & when the political pendulum swings back to the left in the USA, we can be sure that the anti ICE & fossil fuel folks will again be pushing for more electric everything.
I am curious though. You stated that you believe the eqs and i7 are selling well. From which source of information are you pulling this from? Certainly the articles that I pulled indicated the eqs has been a disaster for Mercedes and by disaster I mean an unmitigated disaster.
I will again state I have no intention of a political debate and in my neck of the woods EV demand has caused a significant increase in hydro rates specifically a 30% year-over-year increase from last. This is exactly what I expect to happen across North America and that too will no doubt impact EV sales. Political beliefs aside I have zero doubt that EV adoption in the United States will never take off because your electrical infrastructure is incredibly weak and the demands from AI data centers is massive and the latter is my professional domain.
That said this particular post of mine is more opinion than substance and opinions can be wrong. I have yet to see any automaker actually create a full battery electric vehicle that is in high demand in the premium space. I'm confident Mercedes is not done that but I have no information about BMW so I posited this question to learn.
Last edited by superangrypenguin; May 16, 2026 at 04:50 PM.
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That's a win in my book.
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Re: Rolls Royce
Interesting, EVs are very quiet and as expected which fits the company's philosophy well.
That said, it can't be too quiet:https://www.afr.com/life-and-luxury/...0201019-p566b7
Interesting, EVs are very quiet and as expected which fits the company's philosophy well.
That said, it can't be too quiet:https://www.afr.com/life-and-luxury/...0201019-p566b7
While nothing replaces the real thing, this is as close as it gets for most people. People think driving a Rolls Royce is literally driving a car that makes 0db. It's just not true. Does it make an Audi A8L feel like an A4? Well some YouTubers think so. I do not, but I do strongly say that there is a big gap between a flagship German sedan and one of these British ones.
Last edited by superangrypenguin; May 16, 2026 at 05:09 PM.
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Thanks for posting your experience. Yes, Range Rover reliability was always something that forum members here that were shopping between both, were using as a determining factor if they would to purchase or not. They said they don't want a vehicle in the shop more than on their driveway, I can understand that.
I wasn't ever a Porsche fan to be honest maybe because the seats I can't ever find comfortable out of the Germans, plus there is the "porsche tax". I understand people believe Porsche as a brand is higher tier than MB, bmw and audi though. I guess when you mention the Q8, people will say it is basically a Urus (specifically talking about the RS Q8) for half the price and less showy. Volkswagen group as a whole shares too many parts.
I wasn't ever a Porsche fan to be honest maybe because the seats I can't ever find comfortable out of the Germans, plus there is the "porsche tax". I understand people believe Porsche as a brand is higher tier than MB, bmw and audi though. I guess when you mention the Q8, people will say it is basically a Urus (specifically talking about the RS Q8) for half the price and less showy. Volkswagen group as a whole shares too many parts.
I don't view parts sharing as a negative thing but I know the stigma it carries. If you really want to talk about the other end which is often not talked about there is really only one company that doesn't share parts with anybody else which is Rolls-Royce. Let me give you an extreme. Each piece of glass like for a driver's door is about $5,500. The glass on my Range Rover is about 800$.
Shall we talk reliability? I traded in my Ghost before the four year warranty was up because it was always in the shop. I only went back to Rolls-Royce because nothing drives quite like it but yes the lack of part sharing will lead to headaches far beyond most people's comprehension. Part sharing is a good thing and even companies like jaguar Land Rover finally learn from their mistakes in this regard.
Plus it's been a long time since Mercedes made their own parts. The w204 was the beginning of a long line of decisions made by Mercedes to outsource as much of the car part making as possible and good for them. It dries down costs anyway
Last edited by superangrypenguin; May 16, 2026 at 05:01 PM.
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To be fair with all the tech it does seem even recent Lexus are not as reliable as before. Hybridization across the industry might have complicated thing as well.
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Having owned multiple rolls royces my opinion is that the company is full of over the top sh*t sometimes. There's literally so much sh** that comes out of their mouth that this story that you cited is one that I just do not believe. It's one thing to make a car quiet and it's another to sit in those sound chambers that literally make people sick because they cancel out all noise to the point where someone can hear their own heartbeat.
While nothing replaces the real thing, this is as close as it gets for most people. People think driving a Rolls Royce is literally driving a car that makes 0db. It's just not true. Does it make an Audi A8L feel like an A4? Well some YouTubers think so. I do not, but I do strongly say that there is a big gap between a flagship German sedan and one of these British ones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAWXYmo9vDQ
While nothing replaces the real thing, this is as close as it gets for most people. People think driving a Rolls Royce is literally driving a car that makes 0db. It's just not true. Does it make an Audi A8L feel like an A4? Well some YouTubers think so. I do not, but I do strongly say that there is a big gap between a flagship German sedan and one of these British ones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAWXYmo9vDQ
The architecture underpinning the vehicle in question was developed to go on all extreme ends of the spectrum which is from ultra comfortable to ultra sporty. Volkswagen group has indeed accomplished that. The sq8 is one of the most refined SUVs I have ever sat in. It's incredibly quiet and soft. The Porsche Cayenne is one of the most ridiculous SUVs I've ever driven and I am in awe at how that car can handle even in the lowly S trim. To think both of them share the same architecture is crazy to me. That was Volkswagen doing its job and this is before we talk about Urus and others.
I don't view parts sharing as a negative thing but I know the stigma it carries. If you really want to talk about the other end which is often not talked about there is really only one company that doesn't share parts with anybody else which is Rolls-Royce. Let me give you an extreme. Each piece of glass like for a driver's door is about $5,500. The glass on my Range Rover is about 800$.
Shall we talk reliability? I traded in my Ghost before the four year warranty was up because it was always in the shop. I only went back to Rolls-Royce because nothing drives quite like it but yes the lack of part sharing will lead to headaches far beyond most people's comprehension. Part sharing is a good thing and even companies like jaguar Land Rover finally learn from their mistakes in this regard.
Plus it's been a long time since Mercedes made their own parts. The w204 was the beginning of a long line of decisions made by Mercedes to outsource as much of the car part making as possible and good for them. It dries down costs anyway
I don't view parts sharing as a negative thing but I know the stigma it carries. If you really want to talk about the other end which is often not talked about there is really only one company that doesn't share parts with anybody else which is Rolls-Royce. Let me give you an extreme. Each piece of glass like for a driver's door is about $5,500. The glass on my Range Rover is about 800$.
Shall we talk reliability? I traded in my Ghost before the four year warranty was up because it was always in the shop. I only went back to Rolls-Royce because nothing drives quite like it but yes the lack of part sharing will lead to headaches far beyond most people's comprehension. Part sharing is a good thing and even companies like jaguar Land Rover finally learn from their mistakes in this regard.
Plus it's been a long time since Mercedes made their own parts. The w204 was the beginning of a long line of decisions made by Mercedes to outsource as much of the car part making as possible and good for them. It dries down costs anyway
The problem with part sharing at least to people mind is that for example you get low end Q3 window switches in an Urus. Back to MB for example, if I recalled correctly, the AMG GT (last gen) had window switches from the GLA or something, same goes with the GT Black Series, the rest is different. Part sharing is one way to drop cost but I am all for it if it really helps with reliability. As long as they take parts from there higher models for their flagships and not their absolute base model (Q3 vs Urus): Speaking of audi, there was a convo going on on the Q9 lately: https://mbworld.org/forums/gls-class...-vs-gls-7.html
Sorry to hear about your suboptimal experience with the Rolls-Royce but only owners will understand after experiencing them to realized nothing drives like a Rolls-Royce so you are more than qualified to prove that point. Same goes with MB, an S-Class drives like an S-Class, especially if say those who going back from an E-Class to an S-Class. ie. driving a loaner due to annual service or something.
Back to MB for a second, the last generation AMG GT had lots of their own parts and own dedicated platform, people were pissed because the new C192 AMG GT is based on the R232 SL platform. Although you talked about the reliability aspect but part sharing has also been seen as a cost cutting measure.
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Absolutely but like all brands the devil is in the details. The twin turbo V8 has an unintended feature which is...erm, self implosion. I know enough about the 5LS to comment on it with somewhat authority and I would gladly take a W223 over a LS500. The 5LS is an absolute disaster reliability wise. By absolute disaster, I mean owners reporting failures from blown engines (one owner is on his third!) all the way to weird lumps in the seats to the leather steering wheel falling apart.
It's a funny World we live in when a LS500 is below reliability of a W223. The D5 A8 (present gen) also has had a slew of issues. The well known belt starter generator debacle that plagued Audi for a number of years is thankfully fixed, but failing water pumps, piston skirt issues, roller cams, etc...
While the implementation of P0 with ISG with Mercedes is an absolute crazy disaster waiting to happen repair bill wise - the fact is, it's bulletproof. The cheaper belt driven version with Audi is that - significantly cheaper, but when it failed, it was ugly.
To me, all of this MHEV stuff is silly especially once those NMC 48V batteries die (which for most cars is...right around now).
I did not read the whole thread but I glanced through it. My disappointment with Audi is incredibly vocal though I remain hopeful their new CTO (a young die hard old school Audi-er) will fix it. Their entire lineup right now is epitome cost cutting and customer fleecing. It's absolutely disgusting what Audi has become. The Q9 is a step in the right direction but it has a long way to go.
Pros and cons to everything I guess. I will gladly take a 9 speed transmission from Mercedes but if I am grateful the Range Rover has the ZF 8 speed and Bilstein dual valve dampers. If JLR made either the transmission or the air suspension I'd be horrified.
On a serious note, it was a big plunge to spend $700K on a Ghost (CAD) the first time around. I really appreciate quality and I just feel like the OEM automakers are all cost cutting. The W223 as an example...lost headlamp washers (just one example - which is strange as these still exist on the 5LS, and A8L and the Range Rover. I swear Mercedes knows what they can get away with!). While I know many don't care, I did, but I had to pay through the nose for a Rolls Royce. I'm extremely grateful though to be able to do that as it is an extravagant luxury that is, otherwise, a total waste of money.
My health circumstances are poor and I can't take my money with me so that's where it went. I don't have kids, either. To each their own, I guess.
It's a funny World we live in when a LS500 is below reliability of a W223. The D5 A8 (present gen) also has had a slew of issues. The well known belt starter generator debacle that plagued Audi for a number of years is thankfully fixed, but failing water pumps, piston skirt issues, roller cams, etc...
While the implementation of P0 with ISG with Mercedes is an absolute crazy disaster waiting to happen repair bill wise - the fact is, it's bulletproof. The cheaper belt driven version with Audi is that - significantly cheaper, but when it failed, it was ugly.
To me, all of this MHEV stuff is silly especially once those NMC 48V batteries die (which for most cars is...right around now).
Since you are an actual owner I think what you said is more believable than those people on the internet writing those reviews especially that test vehicles are cycled, it is either abused or they just don't have enough hands on time with them. Thanks for commenting on your observations.
The problem with part sharing at least to people mind is that for example you get low end Q3 window switches in an Urus. Back to MB for example, if I recalled correctly, the AMG GT (last gen) had window switches from the GLA or something, same goes with the GT Black Series, the rest is different. Part sharing is one way to drop cost but I am all for it if it really helps with reliability. As long as they take parts from there higher models for their flagships and not their absolute base model (Q3 vs Urus): Speaking of audi, there was a convo going on on the Q9 lately: https://mbworld.org/forums/gls-class...-vs-gls-7.html
Sorry to hear about your suboptimal experience with the Rolls-Royce but only owners will understand after experiencing them to realized nothing drives like a Rolls-Royce so you are more than qualified to prove that point. Same goes with MB, an S-Class drives like an S-Class, especially if say those who going back from an E-Class to an S-Class. ie. driving a loaner due to annual service or something.
Back to MB for a second, the last generation AMG GT had lots of their own parts and own dedicated platform, people were pissed because the new C192 AMG GT is based on the R232 SL platform. Although you talked about the reliability aspect but part sharing has also been seen as a cost cutting measure.
The problem with part sharing at least to people mind is that for example you get low end Q3 window switches in an Urus. Back to MB for example, if I recalled correctly, the AMG GT (last gen) had window switches from the GLA or something, same goes with the GT Black Series, the rest is different. Part sharing is one way to drop cost but I am all for it if it really helps with reliability. As long as they take parts from there higher models for their flagships and not their absolute base model (Q3 vs Urus): Speaking of audi, there was a convo going on on the Q9 lately: https://mbworld.org/forums/gls-class...-vs-gls-7.html
Sorry to hear about your suboptimal experience with the Rolls-Royce but only owners will understand after experiencing them to realized nothing drives like a Rolls-Royce so you are more than qualified to prove that point. Same goes with MB, an S-Class drives like an S-Class, especially if say those who going back from an E-Class to an S-Class. ie. driving a loaner due to annual service or something.
Back to MB for a second, the last generation AMG GT had lots of their own parts and own dedicated platform, people were pissed because the new C192 AMG GT is based on the R232 SL platform. Although you talked about the reliability aspect but part sharing has also been seen as a cost cutting measure.
Pros and cons to everything I guess. I will gladly take a 9 speed transmission from Mercedes but if I am grateful the Range Rover has the ZF 8 speed and Bilstein dual valve dampers. If JLR made either the transmission or the air suspension I'd be horrified.
On a serious note, it was a big plunge to spend $700K on a Ghost (CAD) the first time around. I really appreciate quality and I just feel like the OEM automakers are all cost cutting. The W223 as an example...lost headlamp washers (just one example - which is strange as these still exist on the 5LS, and A8L and the Range Rover. I swear Mercedes knows what they can get away with!). While I know many don't care, I did, but I had to pay through the nose for a Rolls Royce. I'm extremely grateful though to be able to do that as it is an extravagant luxury that is, otherwise, a total waste of money.
My health circumstances are poor and I can't take my money with me so that's where it went. I don't have kids, either. To each their own, I guess.
Last edited by superangrypenguin; May 16, 2026 at 06:03 PM.
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The 5LS is an absolute disaster reliability wise. By absolute disaster, I mean owners reporting failures from blown engines (one owner is on his third!) all the way to weird lumps in the seats to the leather steering wheel falling apart. It's a funny World we live in when a LS500 is below reliability of a W223. The D5 A8 (present gen) also has had a slew of issues. The well known belt starter generator debacle that plagued Audi for a number of years is thankfully fixed, but failing water pumps, piston skirt issues, roller cams, etc...
While the implementation of P0 with ISG with Mercedes is an absolute crazy disaster waiting to happen repair bill wise - the fact is, it's bulletproof. The cheaper belt driven version with Audi is that - significantly cheaper, but when it failed, it was ugly.
To me, all of this MHEV stuff is silly especially once those NMC 48V batteries die (which for most cars is...right around now).
While the implementation of P0 with ISG with Mercedes is an absolute crazy disaster waiting to happen repair bill wise - the fact is, it's bulletproof. The cheaper belt driven version with Audi is that - significantly cheaper, but when it failed, it was ugly.
To me, all of this MHEV stuff is silly especially once those NMC 48V batteries die (which for most cars is...right around now).
Last edited by S_W222; May 16, 2026 at 07:31 PM.
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Well said and I agree; lexus has changed recently, and while not all their models are a full disaster, they are not as bullet proof as they used to be, and several new technologies have led to a big decline in their reliability metrics. Even the TheCarCareNut was disappointed by a number of the newer launches. And for reputable reliability metric reviews, depending on the source and the calendar year they have often ranked below companies like Porsche. Subaru, BMW and Honda. My guess is that they realized they can't sell enough cars and control the price without sacrificing quality.
I know many will mock what I am about to say and I do know there are downsides, but the Genesis G90 is old school luxury done right (minus the weird feeling rear wheel steering). It truly is absolutely worth the money especially at that price; however, I do have concerns about what people don't see.
I have a 2025 Hyundai Tucson that I use as a beater and is my spouse's daily. She's not into cars. It's a lot of car for $38,000 but what I've learned from Hyundai is that they don't do a great job at the basics. For example, her car likes to drink coolant and her dealership says "it's normal" (that's 2 dealerships by the way). Quick searches online indicate this is normal for this vehicle. So - yes, this is a huge reservation I have with Hyundai and Genesis products. But that said, at $~100K what other options are there?
The 7 series interior is one I adore, especially that back seat. The S class's new FL exterior (minus the stars) is beautiful (I love that grill!). But conversely, I think the 7's exterior is ugly. The last model was beautiful, and I'd even take a Banglebutt over the existing one, and I am not a fan of the new S class's interior though I can tolerate it.
The Genesis G90 has an OK exterior and a beautifully crafted interior. The problem for me is that it's a Genesis. Yes, I know. I'm a snob and I should be trolled right off of MBW for saying this. The issue is - where else do people buy well built large sedans that haven't been cost cutted to death?
Food for thought anyway.
Last edited by superangrypenguin; May 16, 2026 at 08:01 PM.
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I would take Car Care Nut with a grain of salt, he’s one of these crotchety “nothing made after 2005 is any good” types.
Lexus and Toyotas reputation for reliability is largely because their cars are so simple. When they get more complex like the LS460 and LS500 and the new TTV6 etc they become a lot more similar to the Germans. So…I just went German.
Lexus and Toyotas reputation for reliability is largely because their cars are so simple. When they get more complex like the LS460 and LS500 and the new TTV6 etc they become a lot more similar to the Germans. So…I just went German.
