SL65amg

I'm sure some people were wondering how the new 7 series BMW gets to 60 MPH in 4.8 seconds in a recent road test compared to 5.4 seconds for the S 550.... the answer is that BMW has underrated the HP and torque figures... maybe hoping that by being conservative then that the response/counter-attack from Mercedes won't be so severe? The S-Class for 2012 will no longer have the 388 HP naturally aspirated 5.5 liter V-8... it will have reportedly a 5.0 liter twin-turbo Direct Injection 32-Valve DOHC V-8 that will have around 480 HP and for sure will produce alot more torque than even this 750i's engine does just because it will be an even newer design and 0.6 liters larger than the bimmer's engine.

The S63's engine puts out 465 lb/ft of torque, and apparently this 750i's engine puts out around 510 lb/ft of torque, and the 2010 model 750 will have bimmer's new 8-speed transmission also which should improve the MPG and acceleration figures a little more! So including this new information with the availability of tuner's like Vishnu who can probably re-map the ECU on this 750i to put out probably 100 more HP and torque than what is already there.... do you guys think a chipped 750Li would convincingly beat an S63 from 0 to top speed? And what about around the corners with it's new 4-wheel steering option? Also it seems like the price for a new S63 loaded (140k?) is about what the price will be for a loaded 760Li twin-turbo V-12.... which will have almost 550 HP direct-injection engine and be easily tunable for little money too.....

Interesting comparisons to say the least......

http://www.4wheelsnews.com/2009-bmw-...the-dyno-test/

LSM777

The test i saw had it at 5.2 0-60 vs the S550 at 5.3...Who tested it at 4.8?? I've driven the car and had smooth linear power but didnt feel all that fast to me....Then again, I drive a different class of car speed wise i guess

QuadBenz

Here's what Edmund's Insideline says after they put a 750i on a dyno...

http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/2...hotopanel..4.*

Interesting...

LSM777

What u see there is RWHP, proving the original posters remarks....Normally u divide the numbers by .85 to get the HP and torque at the crank which is what everyone uses bc there is driveline loss.... So by edmunds numbers that car dynoed at 460 hp and 510lb/ft at the crank!!! Thats crazy numbers...

SL65amg

Edmunds got 0 to 60 MPH in 4.8 seconds for the 750Li and 5.4 seconds for the S 550 on InsideLine... here's the link to the video of the driving review form YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0LIau58Hdg

QuadBenz

Oh okay.. Did not know that. Thanks!!

D2FORGED

Very interesting find! That is ALOT of power for the garden variety 7 series.

LSM777

I guess that would make sense since the X6 xdrive 5.0 weighs quite a bit more and did it in 5.2ish

jagass

Well...That is great...Nice to hear this...

AMG1

My only question about these HP numbers for this 5.0 twin turbo is that if they produce this engine in lets say the next gen 550 or I guess it would be the 500 considering it would be a 5.0, why would one be convinced to buy a V12 600 if the hp is only a 37HP difference. Are they going to turn the 600 into the 65 engine and make the 65 700HP and 800TQ? Just my thoughts.

LSM777

Which makes me wonder...If the regular 4.4L TT engines going into the 750, 650, and 550 are understated by 50hp and 50-60 lb/ft, whats the M engine gonna be??!! They claim 555hp, whats it gonna be over 600hp

BlownV8

I remember getting into some heated arguments around 5 or 6 years ago with some of the diehard BMW folks about BMW needing to turbocharge their cars to stay competitive. I remember how they felt towards forced induction and most, if not all, said that BMW's focus would remain with a naturally aspirated engine.

I'm glad to see BMW decided to go with forced induction engines. They are so much fun and easy to tune for big numbers.

nychokeyplaya35

I can't wait for the new M5/M6 engines to come out those things are gonna be quite nutty!!!!!!!

SL65amg

Yes it seems logical that the new M version of the 4.4 liter twin-turbo direct-injection V-8 from BMW is underrated as well.. so that 555 HP number is probably more like somewhere a little over 600 HP.... and the torque is probably even more understated.....

They'll probably upgrade it a bit for the all-new 6 and 5 series cars...


As for the other question about what Benz will do with the current SOHC 3-Valve V-12 engines once the new twin-turbo V-8 comes out.... the rumours are (as I'm sure alot of you have heard many times already) that since the 550 engines will be replaced with a 5.0 liter twin-turbo DI V-8, then the uplevel 63 models will get an even larger twin-turbo V-8.... like perhaps a 6.3 liter Direct Injection twin-turbo... and an all-new Direct Injection V-12 maybe 6.0 liter or so and 48-Valves for the 600...
As for what will replace the 65 engines.... the rumours were that they might resurrect the 6.9 name again and take the all-new DI twin-turbo V-12 and let AMG do they're magic obviously on it and come out with perhaps a super AMG V-12 maybe around 6.9 liters 48-valves DOHC, etc....

A.K.A. ... the power wars are most obviously not over yet....

I mean think about it logically for just a second... if the current 550 models will basically become twin-turbo approx. close to 500 HP cars with probably 8-speed faster transmissions.... then the 63 models will have to be absolutely superior and faster in every way... and the top of the line AMG 65 models will have to be absolutely faster and better for sure then even these 63 models..... any predictions? I predict that the standard all-new 2013 model S500 with a twin-turbo DI V-8 and new transmission/software/suspension/chassis setting/newer tech will soundly beat a current generation S63/CL63.... so the next 63 and 65(or 6.9??) cars will be just insanely fast by any measure of the imagination......

Now, lets also don't forget what if BMW's M Division decides to counter with an all-out M version of this new twin-turbo DI V-12 they have.....

Autoscope

Right! That is really interesting...I want to know what dyno factors they used?

absent

That would be all nice and pretty,I'm always a sucker for more power.
However,
What are they going to do to improve the traction in these monsters?
The current 65 series is practically useless in Chicago from late November through April,even on snow tires the ESP warning light is permanently set on.
I don't want just bragging rights,I want to be able to USE what I paid for.

Ferri

The new generation of MB engines are going to be exciting to say the least. Smaller capacity (and consuption) from smooth twin-turbo engines that match the performance of today's more powerful models. That said, I doubt much more energy is going to be devoted to squeezing out tenths of a seconds out of acceleration times any more. I fully believe we are going to see the whole gamut of technology here: KERS, DI, 8-sp DC trannies and the works. Also, I believe the future models are going to weigh less than the current ones. These in themselves are far better to me than simply faster cars.

WSH

Good to see VW is baiting AMGs w/Speeds and threat of Veyron-derived motors being used in more of VW line-up

Worry about DI motors; anecdotally, lots of bugs in latest Cayennes, 997, VW, BMW motors w/DI

65 traction/throttle response has improved significantly in MY09 iterations and winter tire tech has supposedly improved signif in past 2-3 yrs; some car nuts in Germany commute yr-round in 997GT2, using factory-spec winter tires for 5mos/yr....German weather is no worse than that of NYC or Chic (though the smoothly paved rds help much in terms of traction and safety)

From a marketing or engineering R&D standpoint, would guess vast majority of cars like 65 or 599 or GT2 are sold into fair-weather mkts like CA; and/or are used by guys in NYC or Germany or Switzerland during the 7mos/yr of semi-acceptable weather...and they can easily use some S550 4Matic or 600 (either w/winter tires) as winter beater cars on snow days and 65 (w/winter tires) on the many dry, <45F days of Fall/Winter/Spr

E55AMGFan

It's still great to see the German companies underrating forced induction engines to save us for insurance and other purposes. Reminds me of what MB did for the TT V12s and 0-60 times of many AMG cars, 1/4 mile as well.

hubitubi

I tall don't matter because the 7-series looks like ARSEEEEE and the s63 is pure sex!

Oxygen

I agree can't compare the styling of the 7 Series to the W221...

vantage78

Wow. No wonder the new 7 wastes the S550. So it sounds like MB is going from supercharged to NA to turbo-charged. I guess they need to in order to keep up!

BenzBoy12

Well we saw it coming though, after we saw what they did with the N54. I'm not bothered by it. It is amazing what is coming down the pipe, hopefully they decide to really do an M7, that would be THE ultimate car, if they throw in a tuned version of the TT V12 that's coming, it will be insanely fast and of course handle like a dream like most M cars. And I really do like the way it looks. But with all this power, it's amazing that BMW isn't anticipating having tranny problems. They do use ZF, and Bentley uses a ZF 6 speed in the Brooklands with 774 lb. ft. of torque, no problem, so it makes me wonder why Mercedes has such problems with the strength of theirs.

Btw, since turbo engines usually dyno worse, this means that even these #s for the BMW might be a little lower than actual, maybe by 15-25 hp.