Is a 221 S65 a GT car?
05-26-2009, 09:16 PM
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Is a 221 S65 a GT car?
What qualifies a car as a GT, is it an engine with power to accelerate like a Lear on takeoff? Or could it be sumptuous leather interior appointments and bespoke wood or carbon fiber trim fit for a Gulfstream? Is it large wheels with huge amounts of rubber on the ground, or maybe massive brakes that can haul the car to a stop from autobahn speeds? What about a seductive exhaust note? I find myself wondering, is the S65 a GT like the Aston Martin Vanquish, the Bentley Continental, and maybe even the Maserati Quattroporte? They all feature extensive sacrifices of cattle, state of the art engines, and most importantly, a killer exhaust note to intoxicate the driver while he assaults the urban jungle or a back hill road all in the comfort of the greatest fit and finish possible. A GT should be nimble on it's toes, hiding what weight it carries very well, which I feel the 65 does. The only thing I can't figure out is that it has four real doors, and the owner is just as comfortable in the back as in the driver's seat. Does this disqualify it, or is it just an added benefit? The Quattroporte is a sedan, however I wouldn't want to ride in the back seat for an extended period. Could somebody please shed some light on what defines a GT, and what your thoughts are as to whether the S qualifies as one.
Nick
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Last edited by nick 55; 05-26-2009 at 09:29 PM. Reason: I suck at spelling
05-26-2009, 11:13 PM
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Only definition of GT vs sports vs perf vs supercar, etc that matters is that of guy writing the check
IMO, any car that lacks class-leading safety is an inept car w/weak engineering value; any monkey engineer can maximize theoretic dry, smooth track perf if sacrifice safety and daily-useability (always-scraping ground clearance, track tires that are suicidal on wet roads, etc)
For a car used as a daily commuter, hard to underestimate value of 738 lb-ft in context of a highly capable chassis/traction/effortless gearbox....lots of alleged "GT" and supercars have piddly tq, dainty or Luddite gearboxes, turbo lag issues, and/or primitive/dubious safety engineering....drive a new, '09 S65 back-to-back vs 599 vs 997GT2 on public, real-world roads to draw own conclusions
Would argue '09 S65 and CL65 are each supercars (but not SL65); have my doubts about any new F/P/VW Veyron's engineering, innovation or dynamics
IMO, any car that lacks class-leading safety is an inept car w/weak engineering value; any monkey engineer can maximize theoretic dry, smooth track perf if sacrifice safety and daily-useability (always-scraping ground clearance, track tires that are suicidal on wet roads, etc)
For a car used as a daily commuter, hard to underestimate value of 738 lb-ft in context of a highly capable chassis/traction/effortless gearbox....lots of alleged "GT" and supercars have piddly tq, dainty or Luddite gearboxes, turbo lag issues, and/or primitive/dubious safety engineering....drive a new, '09 S65 back-to-back vs 599 vs 997GT2 on public, real-world roads to draw own conclusions
Would argue '09 S65 and CL65 are each supercars (but not SL65); have my doubts about any new F/P/VW Veyron's engineering, innovation or dynamics
05-27-2009, 07:45 AM
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'22 Alpina B7,'21 G63 Renntech obviously (wife), Wrangler(kids)
Only definition of GT vs sports vs perf vs supercar, etc that matters is that of guy writing the check
IMO, any car that lacks class-leading safety is an inept car w/weak engineering value; any monkey engineer can maximize theoretic dry, smooth track perf if sacrifice safety and daily-useability (always-scraping ground clearance, track tires that are suicidal on wet roads, etc)
For a car used as a daily commuter, hard to underestimate value of 738 lb-ft in context of a highly capable chassis/traction/effortless gearbox....lots of alleged "GT" and supercars have piddly tq, dainty or Luddite gearboxes, turbo lag issues, and/or primitive/dubious safety engineering....drive a new, '09 S65 back-to-back vs 599 vs 997GT2 on public, real-world roads to draw own conclusions
Would argue '09 S65 and CL65 are each supercars (but not SL65); have my doubts about any new F/P/VW Veyron's engineering, innovation or dynamics
IMO, any car that lacks class-leading safety is an inept car w/weak engineering value; any monkey engineer can maximize theoretic dry, smooth track perf if sacrifice safety and daily-useability (always-scraping ground clearance, track tires that are suicidal on wet roads, etc)
For a car used as a daily commuter, hard to underestimate value of 738 lb-ft in context of a highly capable chassis/traction/effortless gearbox....lots of alleged "GT" and supercars have piddly tq, dainty or Luddite gearboxes, turbo lag issues, and/or primitive/dubious safety engineering....drive a new, '09 S65 back-to-back vs 599 vs 997GT2 on public, real-world roads to draw own conclusions
Would argue '09 S65 and CL65 are each supercars (but not SL65); have my doubts about any new F/P/VW Veyron's engineering, innovation or dynamics
Be careful so you don't slip on some staircase,might be very dangerous too.....
05-27-2009, 09:15 AM
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05-27-2009, 10:02 AM
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Definition of a GT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_tourer
So yes. Although the CL65 is more of a GT.
A grand tourer (Italian: gran turismo) (GT) is a high-performance luxury automobile designed for long-distance driving. The most common format is a two-door coupé with either a two-seat or a 2+2 arrangement.
The term derives from the Italian phrase Gran Turismo, homage to the tradition of the "Grand Tour", used to represent automobiles regarded as grand tourers abilities to make long-distance, high-speed journeys in both comfort and style. The English translation is "Grand Touring", the French "Grand Tourisme".
The term derives from the Italian phrase Gran Turismo, homage to the tradition of the "Grand Tour", used to represent automobiles regarded as grand tourers abilities to make long-distance, high-speed journeys in both comfort and style. The English translation is "Grand Touring", the French "Grand Tourisme".
05-27-2009, 12:48 PM
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I am not discounting any cars, I believe that any front engine Ferrari is a GT, but what's the difference between the CL and the S? Is it just the fact that the S is a sedan? Essentially, that is the only difference.
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05-27-2009, 01:22 PM
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There are no hard and fast rules but a lot of folks would probably classify the S65 as a luxury sedan (albeit a really fast one) or a sports sedan (albeit a really luxurious one) rather than a GT.
FWIW....
FWIW....
05-27-2009, 08:47 PM
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I like the Wiki definition! This is kind of interesting seeing what some people say, although I was scratching my head about the Veyron comment.
Nick
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05-31-2009, 12:20 AM
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I have always thought of a GT as a luxurious continental cruiser... usually 2-doors (or two occupants) and with a certain style and elan... It should certainly make a statement, be fast and with large reserves of performance - yes, but only when needed. A GT is as much about effortlessly covering vast distances in unhurried comfort... Kind of the car you would pull up to a casino in Monaco in... The S65 is a little too sedan-like and "business-man like" IMO... but the CL... absolutely is a GT.
Chris
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05-31-2009, 09:14 PM
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I have always thought of a GT as a luxurious continental cruiser... usually 2-doors (or two occupants) and with a certain style and elan... It should certainly make a statement, be fast and with large reserves of performance - yes, but only when needed. A GT is as much about effortlessly covering vast distances in unhurried comfort... Kind of the car you would pull up to a casino in Monaco in... The S65 is a little too sedan-like and "business-man like" IMO... but the CL... absolutely is a GT.
Chris
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Nick
06-01-2009, 11:33 AM
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Dunno if it's a "GT".....but it's a bad, bad machine. I found the below portion of a Car and Driver article while surfing the net for brake specs on the 65.
"Forget about 60 mph — that's over in a wheelspin-filled 4.2 seconds. Where the righteous S65 really shows its stuff is above 100 mph. Squash the accelerator, and before you can say Mississippi 22 times, 150 mph arrives, faster than a Ferrari F430. Braking is similarly astounding. In front, large 15.4-inch rotors defy reason and stop the 5081-pound S65 from 70 mph in 154 feet, a stop several feet shorter than Mercedes' outrageous 617-hp superstar, the $455,750 SLR, can muster.
In keeping with the tradition of being unobtainable, the S65 is priced much like its predecessors. Those top-of-the-line Mercedes of the 1930s cost roughly 15 times the price of a mid-'30s Ford. The S65 that passed through our hands bore a price tag of $191,215 or, roughly, what 15 Ford Focuses cost. Suddenly, it's 1936 again."
"Forget about 60 mph — that's over in a wheelspin-filled 4.2 seconds. Where the righteous S65 really shows its stuff is above 100 mph. Squash the accelerator, and before you can say Mississippi 22 times, 150 mph arrives, faster than a Ferrari F430. Braking is similarly astounding. In front, large 15.4-inch rotors defy reason and stop the 5081-pound S65 from 70 mph in 154 feet, a stop several feet shorter than Mercedes' outrageous 617-hp superstar, the $455,750 SLR, can muster.
In keeping with the tradition of being unobtainable, the S65 is priced much like its predecessors. Those top-of-the-line Mercedes of the 1930s cost roughly 15 times the price of a mid-'30s Ford. The S65 that passed through our hands bore a price tag of $191,215 or, roughly, what 15 Ford Focuses cost. Suddenly, it's 1936 again."
06-01-2009, 04:15 PM
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Dunno if it's a "GT".....but it's a bad, bad machine. I found the below portion of a Car and Driver article while surfing the net for brake specs on the 65.
"Forget about 60 mph — that's over in a wheelspin-filled 4.2 seconds. Where the righteous S65 really shows its stuff is above 100 mph. Squash the accelerator, and before you can say Mississippi 22 times, 150 mph arrives, faster than a Ferrari F430. Braking is similarly astounding. In front, large 15.4-inch rotors defy reason and stop the 5081-pound S65 from 70 mph in 154 feet, a stop several feet shorter than Mercedes' outrageous 617-hp superstar, the $455,750 SLR, can muster.
In keeping with the tradition of being unobtainable, the S65 is priced much like its predecessors. Those top-of-the-line Mercedes of the 1930s cost roughly 15 times the price of a mid-'30s Ford. The S65 that passed through our hands bore a price tag of $191,215 or, roughly, what 15 Ford Focuses cost. Suddenly, it's 1936 again."
"Forget about 60 mph — that's over in a wheelspin-filled 4.2 seconds. Where the righteous S65 really shows its stuff is above 100 mph. Squash the accelerator, and before you can say Mississippi 22 times, 150 mph arrives, faster than a Ferrari F430. Braking is similarly astounding. In front, large 15.4-inch rotors defy reason and stop the 5081-pound S65 from 70 mph in 154 feet, a stop several feet shorter than Mercedes' outrageous 617-hp superstar, the $455,750 SLR, can muster.
In keeping with the tradition of being unobtainable, the S65 is priced much like its predecessors. Those top-of-the-line Mercedes of the 1930s cost roughly 15 times the price of a mid-'30s Ford. The S65 that passed through our hands bore a price tag of $191,215 or, roughly, what 15 Ford Focuses cost. Suddenly, it's 1936 again."
06-07-2009, 02:49 PM
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06-08-2009, 10:12 AM
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