my dome!
65 ECU UPGRADE- BE AWARE OF FEDOR DEZYN (VADIM)...
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V12-Biturbo
I have held back from posting a comment on this thread for about 24 hours. I would like to say some things and take it how you wish, as I am not an expert on anything. To the original poster, Busa, you purchased a pre-owned car that in my opinion had a tune on it. If you did purchase it from an MB dealer as a certified car, there is a good chance the previous owner did not disclose that little bit of information and I honestly believe that only a handful of technicians would have caught it on a used car inspection, as most techs only see a few V12s a year, let alone a 65. I would really like to see what numbers your car can put down on a Dyno Dynamics dyno as 530 hp is higher than any stock 65 I have seen, and would also like to see a torque reading as well as boost. Boost on these cars can't be accurately measured by T'ing into the pressure sensor on the passenger side intercooler, but needs to be tapped into the vacuum line coming out of the manifold at the center of the rear of the engine. That enables you to read actual manifold boost pressure or vacuum. I don't like to discount people, and try to look at the big picture, but I feel that if Kleemann and Powerchip both ended up not making the gains expected, I'm going to say that there is a good chance it had a tune. Maybe that is the reason Vadim couldn't get money back from Powerchip. Also, while $2500 may be a lot of money to be out, that's a good reason to have an AMEX to help you protect yourself. People need to understand that there are times in business that the man in charge has absolutely everything on the line to continue something he built and loves. I can think of more than a couple who didn't have $100 to their name during a slump in business and with this economy I'm not surprised that a relative new comer to the luxury car tuning industry might have months in the red. At least you can still drop $2500 on modding your car.
Let the attacks begin.....
Nick
Let the attacks begin.....
Nick
I think you are dead right on Busa's car NOT being stock to begin with, this site is drunk w/notion that ALL stock 65's put dwn 525-530 RWHP so NOT true, Dyno's swing so wildly here it's not even funny anymore.The Bone stock 65 V12's put down 480-500 RWHP average being 490 RWHP. Remember Rick? "Rarfinancial" CLS63 Supercharger debacle $4500
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 445
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From: USA
2018 S63, lowered
This is comical. My was 100% stock when I purchased it, period. As Tom points out in a previous post there were some major issues with the car when I bought it......I almost didn't buy it because it was so SLOW. My brothers S600 was embarasssing me during the test drives......walking off on me at will and putting some serious distance between us. It wasn't until the dealership ran an entire tank of fresh gas through it, reflashed the ECU and beat the **** out of it for a few days that it finally ran "normal." And, I know for a fact that the ECU was flashed again during a service call several months later when I had an issue with the check engine light.
My brother and I line up fairly regularly. From a dig to about 120 I put about a car, MAYBE a car and a half on him.....most of this acheived up top. Are you really suggesting that a tuned S65 won't come around a stock 600 faster than that?? I mean, I don't really even start making up ground on him until we hit 100+? And......from an 80mph roll it takes me a looong time to put a car on him...almost until he hits his speed limiter.
The car was stock folks, I'm not sure what's so hard to believe about that. It trapped 117 on street tires and consistent 121-122 on DR's and one 123....all of these at sea-level and in sub 70 degree weather. Put aside all the dyno numbers, ET's, MPH, etc.....if a tuned 65 doesn't come around a 600 harder than I come around my brother, then that means without the tune he'd probably beat me, or be right next to me. It's not rocket science, the car was/is stock. Also, if it was tuned why did I have it stuck on the limiter for about 5 seconds at 156 (see avatar). Maybe they "tuned" the car and left the "limiter" in place for safety purposes.
Oh wait.....or maybe my brother has a tuned 600??
John, you been holdin out on me you sum bit*h??
Last edited by Busa196; Aug 17, 2009 at 09:26 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Arizona
SL55AMG, Ferrari 348, Ferrari Testarossa, Ferrari F40, Ferrari Mondial t, Ducati 916, Indycar
I have read this entire thread and just wanted to add a little insight from my experience with these cars.
We have found that the V12tt and the 65's in particular can be finicky and definitely vary from car to car, whereas the 55K cars are a slam dunk for us, and I know that unless there is an IC pump, or other hardware problem the results are very consistent.
Perhaps it has something to do with available fuel in different parts of the country or other variables. I would hope that build quality is not in that mix. Either way, as a result of the way that different cars respond, we have developed different versions of software for these cars. Most of the time, we are spot on the first time, but every so often we end up using different versions to get the required results.
Since most of the cars that we tune have 'been around the block' a few times, there has also been a factor of some cars having hardware issues of some kind, as well as varying states of condition or tune that sometimes we end up trying to help diagnose to help get things straight.
I can't speak to Busa's experience, and I don't want to. My hope is that now that you have the money side handled, you get the results you want, because in the end, we are all enthusiasts and just want to have some more fun with our cars. Good luck!
We have found that the V12tt and the 65's in particular can be finicky and definitely vary from car to car, whereas the 55K cars are a slam dunk for us, and I know that unless there is an IC pump, or other hardware problem the results are very consistent.
Perhaps it has something to do with available fuel in different parts of the country or other variables. I would hope that build quality is not in that mix. Either way, as a result of the way that different cars respond, we have developed different versions of software for these cars. Most of the time, we are spot on the first time, but every so often we end up using different versions to get the required results.
Since most of the cars that we tune have 'been around the block' a few times, there has also been a factor of some cars having hardware issues of some kind, as well as varying states of condition or tune that sometimes we end up trying to help diagnose to help get things straight.
I can't speak to Busa's experience, and I don't want to. My hope is that now that you have the money side handled, you get the results you want, because in the end, we are all enthusiasts and just want to have some more fun with our cars. Good luck!
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LS430
I think you are dead right on Busa's car NOT being stock to begin with, this site is drunk w/notion that ALL stock 65's put dwn 525-530 RWHP so NOT true, Dyno's swing so wildly here it's not even funny anymore.The Bone stock 65 V12's put down 480-500 RWHP average being 490 RWHP. Remember Rick? "Rarfinancial" CLS63 Supercharger debacle $4500
Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 171
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From: Houston, TX
'05 C55
I had the exact same outcome with a Superchips tune in my E63. Baseline dynos performed, the PCM was returned to show a consistent net loss of 20 RWHP. Scan tool showed a significant DROP in total advance igintion timing with no audible or visual knock detected on the scanner. Sent it back to them and after receiving it for the 2nd time, the rear wheel HP/TQ went back to stock. This was the best they could do. I was out $1900. and vowed to never do business with them again. Recently, I have had other AMG cars tuned by Jerry at LET and he has always been able to prove a significant gain on the chassis dynomameter all at a VERY reasonable price. BTW, he does have a custom 65 tune that you load yourself.
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SL600
Nope! But if you been through crap with Vettes, why is this a surprise? Toughen up cupcake! 
I agree.
Sean, you said "LAPD" helped you with you're Corvette? wth...?
I agree.
Sean, you said "LAPD" helped you with you're Corvette? wth...?
Banned
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From: Southern California
S600TT, R350
Jason, what is really funny, is that right after the tune you called me and told how happy you were with it and how you walked stock CL65 and how the car felt stronger than ever before. You told Travis the same story. Than all sudden story changes and now the tune is crap???
BTW, it is the same tune that MarcoCL65 went deep into 11s with.
Like always there is two sides to every story. I am sorry you had family issues, but if this is your way to pay for them on my back and Powerchip's back, than I do not need say anything else.
BTW, it is the same tune that MarcoCL65 went deep into 11s with.
Like always there is two sides to every story. I am sorry you had family issues, but if this is your way to pay for them on my back and Powerchip's back, than I do not need say anything else.
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From: Maryland
'14 E63S & '14 Audi SQ5
Jason, what is really funny, is that right after the tune you called me and told how happy you were with it and how you walked stock CL65 and how the car felt stronger than ever before. You told Travis the same story. Than all sudden story changes and now the tune is crap???
BTW, it is the same tune that MarcoCL65 went deep into 11s with.
Like always there is two sides to every story. I am sorry you had family issues, but if this is your way to pay for them on my back and Powerchip's back, than I do not need say anything else.
BTW, it is the same tune that MarcoCL65 went deep into 11s with.
Like always there is two sides to every story. I am sorry you had family issues, but if this is your way to pay for them on my back and Powerchip's back, than I do not need say anything else.
I am a little surprised that you have responded in this way. You were better off letting the thread run its course with your original response (the thread was devolving into "is he stock or tuned already?"). Instead, you seem to be taking a page out of the Andy/MHP playbook. Nothing good is going to come of you publicly trashing the customer...
Tom
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Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Southern California
S600TT, R350
TCM M5:
I am not going to let Jason trash my name.
There are facts and there are facts. I have to defend my name. Many people on this board know who I am and I will not let one person drag me or Powerchip through mud. I am not stating anything I can not back up.
After all he has made the choice of posting this thread, he can not expect me not to defend myself and present my side.
I am not going to let Jason trash my name.
There are facts and there are facts. I have to defend my name. Many people on this board know who I am and I will not let one person drag me or Powerchip through mud. I am not stating anything I can not back up.
After all he has made the choice of posting this thread, he can not expect me not to defend myself and present my side.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,895
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From: Maryland
'14 E63S & '14 Audi SQ5
Jason, what is really funny, is that right after the tune you called me and told how happy you were with it and how you walked stock CL65 and how the car felt stronger than ever before. You told Travis the same story. Than all sudden story changes and now the tune is crap???
BTW, it is the same tune that MarcoCL65 went deep into 11s with.
Like always there is two sides to every story. I am sorry you had family issues, but if this is your way to pay for them on my back and Powerchip's back, than I do not need say anything else.
BTW, it is the same tune that MarcoCL65 went deep into 11s with.
Like always there is two sides to every story. I am sorry you had family issues, but if this is your way to pay for them on my back and Powerchip's back, than I do not need say anything else.
Tom
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Joined: Jan 2009
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German vehicles stink, will never buy again. Moved on to Toyota and BYD.
I agree that's completely uncalled for. It reflects on your character and the way you conduct your business. He was relating his experience. He didn't get what he paid for and had to fight to get it back.
Some of the other comments were really great. I learned a lot by reading comments from other members. Great post!
I'm not an expert but I think Busa's car is stock. My 600 on a DD puts 450.1 RWHP, Shouldn't a S65 put out 530 RWHP? Especially because the turbos aren't limitted to 14 psi. I think there is some other issue that is preventing him from benefiting from a tune. I really hope someone finds the answer to his problem.
Some of the other comments were really great. I learned a lot by reading comments from other members. Great post!
I'm not an expert but I think Busa's car is stock. My 600 on a DD puts 450.1 RWHP, Shouldn't a S65 put out 530 RWHP? Especially because the turbos aren't limitted to 14 psi. I think there is some other issue that is preventing him from benefiting from a tune. I really hope someone finds the answer to his problem.
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From: Southern California
S600TT, R350
Tom, let me understand this. Attacking me is OK, but me responding and pointing why he wanted his money back is not OK............
Do you know that there is a trend right now where a lot of customers are charging back every big purchase they have made in the past 6 mos. just so they can get credit for 60 days........................... so they do not have to pay their bills for a while.
I have two right now that admited to my face that they have no problem with anything they got from me, but because they can not pay their credit card bill they are using chargeback to get off from paying my portion. And this is the same story that I hear from my suppliers and other vendors I sell to.
I do not know what his situation is and it is not my business. He was credited by his credit company several months ago. So what is the point except to hurt my and Powerchip's business.......................
Do you expect me to sit still???????????????????????
Go talk to your loacl merchant and ask him.
Do you know that there is a trend right now where a lot of customers are charging back every big purchase they have made in the past 6 mos. just so they can get credit for 60 days........................... so they do not have to pay their bills for a while.
I have two right now that admited to my face that they have no problem with anything they got from me, but because they can not pay their credit card bill they are using chargeback to get off from paying my portion. And this is the same story that I hear from my suppliers and other vendors I sell to.
I do not know what his situation is and it is not my business. He was credited by his credit company several months ago. So what is the point except to hurt my and Powerchip's business.......................
Do you expect me to sit still???????????????????????
Go talk to your loacl merchant and ask him.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
From: Friendswood, TX
'08 CLS63
If Jason's car is tuned then I would tell everybody to buy a 600 and save your money because stock the 600 would beat it.
I remember seeing a post on here not too long ago about a 221 65 making in the 530 rwhp range stock (on video) and nobody chimed in saying "must be tuned."
What about Stephen running 11.20's with a renntech tune with tires in a
S600?
From my position Jason is a great guy...one of the few people with integrity that I know...but again I'm his brother so nobody will believe me.
And a big +1 to Toms comment...throw in the family comment and people's character really shows.
Take care, John
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From: Texas
2003 CL55
The ET/mph Adds up to STOCK to me. At least five stock 65`s listed in the 525 plus range on drag times. They all site stock power.. Below are two stock CL65`s listed with more HP than Busa.
http://www.dragtimes.com/Mercedes-Be...no-Sheets.html
My car weighs about 300 lbs less, made 475 on mustang dyno and 520 TQ, last year. Based on the listed power and TQ of stock 65`s, it easilly adds up to 2-3 mph more than my car.. Forget about just comparing other 65`s, just do the physics..
I think only one track in the country can compare to HRP and that is MIR but that is a whole other debate
http://www.dragtimes.com/Mercedes-Be...no-Sheets.html
My car weighs about 300 lbs less, made 475 on mustang dyno and 520 TQ, last year. Based on the listed power and TQ of stock 65`s, it easilly adds up to 2-3 mph more than my car.. Forget about just comparing other 65`s, just do the physics..
I think only one track in the country can compare to HRP and that is MIR but that is a whole other debate
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E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
www.ultimatepd.com
instagram @ultimate_pd
facebook.com/ultimatepd
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,895
Likes: 53
From: Maryland
'14 E63S & '14 Audi SQ5
Tom, let me understand this. Attacking me is OK, but me responding and pointing why he wanted his money back is not OK............
Do you know that there is a trend right now where a lot of customers are charging back every big purchase they have made in the past 6 mos. just so they can get credit for 60 days........................... so they do not have to pay their bills for a while.
I have two right now that admited to my face that they have no problem with anything they got from me, but because they can not pay their credit card bill they are using chargeback to get off from paying my portion. And this is the same story that I hear from my suppliers and other vendors I sell to.
I do not know what his situation is and it is not my business. He was credited by his credit company several months ago. So what is the point except to hurt my and Powerchip's business.......................
Do you expect me to sit still???????????????????????
Go talk to your loacl merchant and ask him.
Do you know that there is a trend right now where a lot of customers are charging back every big purchase they have made in the past 6 mos. just so they can get credit for 60 days........................... so they do not have to pay their bills for a while.
I have two right now that admited to my face that they have no problem with anything they got from me, but because they can not pay their credit card bill they are using chargeback to get off from paying my portion. And this is the same story that I hear from my suppliers and other vendors I sell to.
I do not know what his situation is and it is not my business. He was credited by his credit company several months ago. So what is the point except to hurt my and Powerchip's business.......................
Do you expect me to sit still???????????????????????
Go talk to your loacl merchant and ask him.
You admit that you don't know his situation and are applying what is generally happening in the economy to fabricate a financial motive behind his displeasure with the product/service. When you cast aspersions as to why he wanted a refund you are going down a slippery slope. The OP isn't selling anything on here (as far as I know). So if people think lesser of him on here it is not going to impact him financially, you don't have the same luxury. Your personal comments did 10X more to damage your credibility than anything the OP said (at least in my view).
Tom
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 445
Likes: 26
From: USA
2018 S63, lowered
I can't speak to Busa's experience, and I don't want to. My hope is that now that you have the money side handled, you get the results you want, because in the end, we are all enthusiasts and just want to have some more fun with our cars. Good luck!
Hmm I thought his 530rwhp was on a dynojet, it's on a Dyno Dynamics that definitely changes my mind a bit about things.
I had the exact same outcome with a Superchips tune in my E63. Baseline dynos performed, the PCM was returned to show a consistent net loss of 20 RWHP. Scan tool showed a significant DROP in total advance igintion timing with no audible or visual knock detected on the scanner. Sent it back to them and after receiving it for the 2nd time, the rear wheel HP/TQ went back to stock. This was the best they could do.
Boost on these cars can't be accurately measured by T'ing into the pressure sensor on the passenger side intercooler, but needs to be tapped into the vacuum line coming out of the manifold at the center of the rear of the engine. That enables you to read actual manifold boost pressure or vacuum.
Funny Vadim.....you left me a voice mail 30min after I made this post suddenly wanting to make amends......your message said, and I quote, "I'd like to work this out between us and not make a big deal about it" Two days later you're bringing my family into this?? Unreal. You've officially shown your character. Everything I had stated is un-debatable and is backed up by ET's, MPH, Dyno pulls and running the same 600 several times. I honored my part of the transaction, you did not.....and then you went back on your word and refused to refund me.
I was referred to you off this forum and spoke with you over this forum before making my decision. What did you think I was going to do.....not let my fellow members know how I was treated?? That's why I clearly gave you multiple chances to make this right. You think I enjoy spending my time doing this??? It's everyone's right to know and make their own choices based on what they've read. I just hope to prevent someone going through what I went through, that's all. I actually think you're a nice guy, and you were always contactable.....I just hate that it fell apart at the end, and that you got personal with me in regards to my family. I'm a bigger man than you, so I'm going to let this die. I've said my peace, and shared my facts. I hope that you have better luck in the future Vadim.
Thanks to all the fellow members for your support.
All the best-
-Busa196-
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From: Southern, CA.
V12-Biturbo
You are throwing a low blow because you feel that you got fouled. You don't have to get personal to make a point or fight back. RENNtech is the shining example of taking the high road in situations like this and they are the better for it (and no I don't have any of their products...I just like how they comport themselves on here).
You admit that you don't know his situation and are applying what is generally happening in the economy to fabricate a financial motive behind his displeasure with the product/service. When you cast aspersions as to why he wanted a refund you are going down a slippery slope. The OP isn't selling anything on here (as far as I know). So if people think lesser of him on here it is not going to impact him financially, you don't have the same luxury. Your personal comments did 10X more to damage your credibility than anything the OP said (at least in my view).
Tom
You admit that you don't know his situation and are applying what is generally happening in the economy to fabricate a financial motive behind his displeasure with the product/service. When you cast aspersions as to why he wanted a refund you are going down a slippery slope. The OP isn't selling anything on here (as far as I know). So if people think lesser of him on here it is not going to impact him financially, you don't have the same luxury. Your personal comments did 10X more to damage your credibility than anything the OP said (at least in my view).
Tom
Excellent post...Also I find it FUNNY how Vadim originally stated Busa "Jason" was credited a refund "2 months ago" now it has grown magically to "SEVERAL months"
He was credited by his credit company several months ago.
Last edited by Thericker; Aug 17, 2009 at 10:54 PM.
this is slightly getting out of hand..
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From: Southern, CA.
V12-Biturbo
You've just answered your own question on weather you're tuned or not?
I have a Scantron that tells me a number of parameters....boost, intake temps, timing, etc.....I was closely monitoring these during this trial period. They're all consistent with what they were before I sent the ECU off. Boost has never seen more than 22psi and my I/C pump is good. -
18-19 PSI is BONE STOCK S65 PSI, TUNED PSI on 65TT is 22 PSI, you state ABOVE your Scantron showed you 22-PSI/Boost, BEFORE SENDING ECU's off to (2) different vendors
Your Original FILE was/is TUNED
Last edited by Thericker; Aug 18, 2009 at 05:44 AM.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 445
Likes: 26
From: USA
2018 S63, lowered
Really?? Have a read here boss.
https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...s65-boost.html
My eyesight is actually quite good, but appreciate your concern above.
I'm so done with this.............................................. ....
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From: Scottsdale (aka The Surface of the Sun)
OK - this thread has officially run its course.
There are always two sides to every story. Our job is not to let threads go crazy, but to let all sides have a chance to talk it out. It seems that happened to some extent, but more it just became a flame war.
To clarify before shutting this thread down:
1. the OP did business with VRP/Vadim, not Powerchip
2. the OP did get his refund from Vadim, although not in the manner he would have liked. (and it would never have been correct to get it direct from powerchip as they did not sell it to the customer).
3. the tune in the car is still in the car, thus VRP/Vadim and/or Powerchip are essentially out of their product with no payment.
The net/net is that all sides are losing here.
The OP feels slighted by the process (not the results). If he was upset with the results, then he would also be upset at Kleemann, as they got the same results as Powerchip.
Vadim/VRP feels slighted as he did give the refund (albeit to the customer via AMEX, not direct), yet is getting bashed. Is it deserved? We will never know, this is a he-said/she-said situation. Sounds like there may be something to the story, but the reality is that the two parties likely both have different perspectives.
Powerchip is being slighted as they are out the tune and are taking some abuse in this thread, yet they did nothing more than provide a tune that is known to work well in many other 65 applications (including some that I have seen first hand).
We should all think about these things and move on!
thanks
Brad
There are always two sides to every story. Our job is not to let threads go crazy, but to let all sides have a chance to talk it out. It seems that happened to some extent, but more it just became a flame war.
To clarify before shutting this thread down:
1. the OP did business with VRP/Vadim, not Powerchip
2. the OP did get his refund from Vadim, although not in the manner he would have liked. (and it would never have been correct to get it direct from powerchip as they did not sell it to the customer).
3. the tune in the car is still in the car, thus VRP/Vadim and/or Powerchip are essentially out of their product with no payment.
The net/net is that all sides are losing here.
The OP feels slighted by the process (not the results). If he was upset with the results, then he would also be upset at Kleemann, as they got the same results as Powerchip.
Vadim/VRP feels slighted as he did give the refund (albeit to the customer via AMEX, not direct), yet is getting bashed. Is it deserved? We will never know, this is a he-said/she-said situation. Sounds like there may be something to the story, but the reality is that the two parties likely both have different perspectives.
Powerchip is being slighted as they are out the tune and are taking some abuse in this thread, yet they did nothing more than provide a tune that is known to work well in many other 65 applications (including some that I have seen first hand).
We should all think about these things and move on!
thanks
Brad
