Reckless

Over the weekend, I finally got around to getting my ECU upgrade done at Fluid Motor Union. I couldn't pass up the deal they were offering ($1490 for a custom tune.. funny thing was I was one day away of sending my ECU/TCU to Renntech when Mike posted about the Powerchip dyno day in my area).

Jeremy from Powerchip was there and he performed my tune. He is a really nice guy and I felt he was pretty knowledgeable about tuning. First thing I mentioned to him was the fear of my transmission popping and he assured me that he likes to play it safe and that shouldn't happen (my mechanics warned me about tranny's popping back a few years ago). I was reluctant to do the TCU tune as I didn't want my car to drive like a vette everywhere. He agreed and suggested to stay away from it. So I opted to leave the TCU as is.

The setup they had fluid motor union was the best I have ever seen: a big plasma tv displaying dyno figures for everyone to see. We started by having my car dyno'd stock. Numbers came out the same as before (449.8 RWHP, 560 FTLB RWTQ). They were using a dyno dynamics dyno meter. OJ (the owner) told me he has the setup set to most conservative setting, so numbers would not be inflated at all. My stock numbers came in higher than the stock S65 they had a month or so prior. A bunch of mechanics had gathered around to see the dyno and the expressions they had were priceless. Everyone was like goddamn and shaking their heads in awe (these guys are bmw heads and love their bmw's). Parking lot had M3's, 740's, M5's, and a bunch of 911's.

Then, Jeremy proceeded to do his work and we do the first pull and I get 484HP, 640TQ. He tries a second flash and we get same numbers pretty much. Third time we get 488HP, 660TQ (with more low end power). Fourth time and we get 491HP, 660TQ. All of this is coming in at 17-18 lbs boost (my turbo gauge was reading 20 lb). I ask him why not open it 24 lbs and he told me that it will not really help that much as not all pressure is good pressure. He was reluctant to push it any further. He was worried about how it would affect reliability and other issues with marginal gain. Seeing the expression from him, I didn't think he felt safe about pushing it any further so I backed off. My goal was to cross the 500 RWHP mark but I think I might have been pushing my luck to far. I was comparing my car to Treynor's S600 Renntech on dragtimes on a DD 525HP, 640TQ (in the comments he wrote 522HP, 656TQ). His stock dyno was 30HP more than mine which may account for the difference. I wonder if he had a factory freak.

The guys at Fluid Motor Union (OJ and Mike) are a class act. I would strongly recommend anyone looking to get work done in the Chicago area to check them out. I haven't met people so dedicated and customer service orientated in this line of work before. They have a passion for cars and work on the cars like if it were their own. I was having trouble launching the car so I asked OJ if he would come for a ride. He did some power braking hoping to get the tires to stick but no matter what we did the car would lose traction between 1st and 2nd, and 2nd to 3rd. He explained to me that it was the crappy tires I have and he suggested upgrading to Nitto's exaltos or 555's for summer time. OJ took the time to explain various things to me that I wasn't aware of before and answer whatever questions I had. He explained that the S600 actually has small turbos (I thought they were big). He also explained that the high boost figure doesn't necessarily translate into large cfm. Jeremy explained that not all cfm is good if its blowing in hot air.

I didn't get much of a time to drive around this weekend, but my initial feeling is there is more power. I feel a tad bit more in lower speeds (0-20mph) and at higher speeds 70+ mph. The wheels really don't spin out when I stomp on it from 45+mph (it has once or twice). I really didn't notice the power difference soo much as mercedes makes the car accelerate really smooth. I am used to the harsh and jarring ride of the bmw, so I sometimes don't know I'm going 120 mph. I sat in the passenger seat while OJ took a couple runs and my neck starting feeling strain in it from not putting my head on the headrest. I remember reading some comments that when you floor it, it will slam your head to the head rest. I don't really have that. I am not sure if that's from the TCU or my car not making enough power.

I would really like to take the time to thank both Power Chip and Fluid Motor Union for their efforts and work.



Pre & Post Dyno @ Fluid Motor Union


Probably 1st Run and Final

JonMBZ

congrats glad to hear the good stories being posted.

Thericker

Couple things, stock 600's do NOT put out this much RWTO period or RWHP

Especially on properly set conservative DD, heck STOCK 65's put down 600 RWTO on conservative Dynodynamics.

Your RWHP reading before TUNE is right inline for what you'd see on HIGHER READING Dynojet Dyno machine for true bone stock 600TT. What Octane did you use? 93?

You need TCU tune to unlock further TQ limiters, from research I've done on these cars 65's run 19 lbs+ /PSI & 600's @ 14.5 PSI, Tuned ECU/TCU should be able to push 20-22 PSI w/proper cooling mods. I have ALL the faith in the world w/Jeremy & Powerchip being able to do this (getting my SL600 tuned by Jeremy/Powerchip shortly)

You need upgraded IC pump/Heat Exchanger/IC Reservoir trunk cooler/ to obtain these higher boost settings on 600 motor. I'm getting HE next then Powerchip tune! were gonna set some records


Curious? What was your boost guage reading BEFORE Tune? Your S600 was possibly running higher boost than TRUE stock 14.5 PSI if those pre Tune #'s are legit, it would be the ONLY explanation on conservative Dynodynamics machine.

Treynor's stock #'s were ALL done while using 100 Octane, & on higher reading Dynojets, if this DD is set properly your Post tune Powerchip results are freakish, 660 ft lbs on this Dyno equates to 700-710+ RWTO on Dynojet & EZ 530+ RWHP

Treynor's S600 link on Dragtimes (Dynojet reading, NOT Dynodynamics)
http://www.dragtimes.com/Mercedes-Be...slip-3051.html
Horsepower @ wheels: 525.60
Torque @ wheels: 643.30
Dyno Type: DynoJet

Thericker

For good Comparo this is properly set Dynodynamic's reading on healthy SL65 running 18-19 PSI

487RWHP & 600RWTO

No way, No how is STOCK S600 making 640RWTO on this dyno... Please post your Dyno's somethings not right here. ECU tune on S600 is going to garner more than 41 RWHP & 20 RWTO

Reckless

I'll put up some dyno charts tomorrow. My turbo gauge was reading 13.5 psi before. Now it reads 20 for a split second in first at low rpm's and 17-18 afterwards. We checked the stock dyno to, I was getting no more than 14 psi of boost.

I mentioned to Jeremy that there was some question about my car not being stock. He and OJ felt it was and fell short of calling it a factory freak (they tried describing what happens when benz manufactures these things). My MB service advisor said the same thing. They did mention I am running rich, but good rich.

I only use 93 octane but will soon try 100 octane on the weekends if I find a gas station that has it.

I had my dyno done at Chicago Performance (same place that dyno graph was done) and got same numbers a couple months back (I'll post them tomorrow as well). I brought that dyno chart with me and OJ said right on the money. I do know that my car had higher torque figures than the stock S65 that is posted on FD's website. The 65 had higher numbers after being tuned than my tune.

Thanks for clarifying Treynor's graph... I left the shop feeling like my car wasn't as fast as some of the other 600's. I was really disappointed not crossing the 500 mark, even 511 would sound so much nicer than 491 (I'm a numbers man). Plus I was expecting the car to feel radically different but I guess 4 more psi and 41 hp isn't as easy to discern.

Reckless

How much are those things and will they void my warranty? I still have 85k miles left on my warranty and plan on getting use out of it.

I might buy another 600/65 to put a VRP or some other crazy tune on it.

Thericker

No sheet! I was hoping it was the same dyno as you mentioned it was done in Chicago, though 640 rwto just doesn't make sense for stock S600 vs Marcus SL65 @ 600 rwto, nothing in S600 tuning or cubes would equate for your S600 having 40 more RWTO stock vs stock... Hell I need to get Marcus for some insight on this one!

An average BONE STOCK S/SL/CL/600's RWHP & RWTO on this particular Dynodynamics should be around 400-420 RWHP 475-500 RWTO, the 65's make a good 125+ RWTO more than the 600's if this PRE-Dyno is correct for some odd reason your S600 is indeed the TRUE FREAK not Treynors S600 on DynoJet using 100 Octane lol...

For the sake of arguement or disagreement, I'll take your POST-Tuning Dyno #'s as truth, Marcus ran his SL65 w/60 overall less RWTO than your Tuned S600 this past Sat, & ran 11.5 @ 120+mph so the Dyno #'s do indeed compute to a damned Powerful Tune from Powerchip!

Thericker

Any/all mods to our cars can void our warranty, I have same 100k DC warranty (just get in good w/service advisor @ dealership & you'll be fine)

Above cooling mods w/install shouldn't cost anymore than $2k at most

E55AMGFan

Holy smokes...like you said TheRicker, if he those predyno numbers are what they are, he has more than just a factory freak, he has a monster.

Vadim @ FD

It had a tune in it before. I have done enough stock 600s to know that they are nowhere near 640RWTQ stock.

Thericker

I agree w/you but.....The OP notes having boost guage & seeing boost on Dynos PRE-tune was 13-14 PSI!!! I knowWTF

Also it is a record for ANY 600 model to put down 660 RWTO Post ECU tuning ONLY, on this Dynodynamic Dyno.

Your S600 didn't even make 600 RWTO on DynoJetwas like 585-590 RWTO

Reckless

Sorry for the confusion guys, it was 560 ft-lb stock. I mistyped it in the original post and corrected it.

Thericker

Don't you mean 540 RWTO stock then 660 RWTO POST ECU...

I knew it! still 450 RWHP 540 RWTO for BONE STOCK S600 is HIGHEND readings you'd see on DynoJet, this Heartbreaker is broken lol...

Gotta say it Marcus, if this is your SAME DD it's NOT fabled heartbreaker period No way are his stock S600 #'s conservative they're exactly inline w/highest DynoJet readings...

Having said that, even comparing your Post Powerchip gains to DynoJet readings = SOLID Beast 487 RWHP 660 RWTO is HUGE improvement over Vadim's earlier attempts made slightly more RWHP but RWTO is SOLID! w/cooling mods sure you'd break 500 RWHP & 700 RWTO

Jeremy & Powerchip

Post da friggin' charts already

Vadim @ FD

Sean, let me spell it for you:

- 91 - 91 - 91 - 91 - 91 - 91 - Donkey **** gas.

Come on you know as well as I do, it goes in our tank every time


70RWHP and 75RWTQ on 91 is nothing to sneeze about.

Thericker

Hmmm 2 octane points I.E. 93 Octane wont = 60-70 additional RWTQ Vadim... Also where do you see 75 RWTO gain on your POST tune graph?? Stock shows 555-560 RWTO???? you gained 35-40 RWTO IE POST ECU = 595 RWTO.

You told me you limited RWTO to 590-595 because anything more would be useless & you'd just loose traction LOL... Then later when asked again, How 65 motors can handle it? you stated you tuned your S600 when rear tires were bald showing cords. I can go re-post your quotes if you'd like?

Basically Jeremy/Powerchip are AWESOME Tuners!!

Reckless

Is drive train loss 18 % or 21 %? I can't remember.

Thericker

Depends on the dyno used but judging from pre tune #'s I'd say 18%

Thericker

OK so now you posted Stock #'s which look like 450 RWHP 560 RWTO, still a great gain of 100RWTO!!


Indeed look's to be SAME EXACT Dynodynamics Marcus uses, hardly Heartbreaker by any stretch w/these STOCK #'s from S600...

Reckless

Yeah, I was confused late last night which numbers you were talking about (pre and post).

The torque figures are great... I just wish the horsepower gains were similar. What do typical S600 get on a DD?

It's hard to feel the difference because the wheels just spin out of control and start pulling to a side. I need new tires.... Fluid Motor Union were recommending Nitto's. Any other recomendations? I like the dunlop winter sport tires for snow.

Thericker

Forget this Dynodynamics vs DynoJet, it's total obvious in your STOCK Dyno #'s just go by what you gained under the curve, which is Phenomenal vs Vadim's earlier attempt. RWTO is what gets are heavy buckets moving, I'm certain you'd see 500+RWHP on a cool day, how long did you let the car cool down before Dynos? needs a full 1 hour @ least w/hood-up, for best reading leave it @ shop & dyno in morning then report back

On that 1 reading it shows 491 RWHP you're right their!

Reckless

I think we let it cool down 10-20 minutes between dynos. But we had 2 fans blowing on the engine and one big fan blowing across everything else. The room didn't have good circulation IMO.

I am going to find a dyno jet in my area and get a dyno done. It's confusing going back and forth between the 2.

I never really heard about the upgraded parts being necessary to get higher power. All the other tuners I spoke to pretty much told me they were going to open it to 24 psi (or maybe I misunderstood them). I have heard about the torque limiter kicking in and shutting down the engine between first and second. Is that the reason why they limit the amount of boost?

Thericker

You misunderstood my question, How long did you let the car cool w/hood up when you 1st got to the Dyno shop? I.E. you drove their then shut it off, how long did your S600 actually sit w/engine OFF before being strapped down to Dyno?

10-20 min between Dyno pulls is perfect...

Also you're getting confused again, these Dyno #'s are perfectly = to what you'd see on ANY DynoJet, don't confuse this more by going to a totally different Dyno, you have a great BASELINE DYNO here, compare Apples to Apples.

If you do as I said "Go leave your car over night, or give it 1-2 hrs cooling time w/hood up before strapping to Dyno you'll see 500+rwhp" But again it doesn't matter, your tossing $100-$200 bucks away to have them give you a piece of paper that reads 10-20 rwhp more, trust me I've had all my cars dynoed @ 1 time or another, your Post Powerchip results are indeed STOUT, w/more cooling time it will ONLY improve.

If you want REAL proof take her to the 1/4 mile track, Dyno #'s don't equal the big picture 1/4 mile ET's & Trap speeds do!

Sean...

Marcus Frost

I think Reckless had an old, very conservative, mail order tune in the car before. CPT has dyno'd plenty of other V12 cars before, so questioning their dyno's integrity I think is a bit premature. I have personally witnessed my RENNTech SL600, a Kleemann S600, another ECU'd S600, and my SL65 dyno there. ALL the other dynos, except Hussain's, were relatively in line with expectations.

You guys will just have to take my word when I say that CPT does not bull**** around with their dyno. They have a weather station right next to the screen, they input the figures from the station, and that's it. They don't even use shootout mode, and have no interest in doing so. In fact, I don't think they even know how to use it because they don't want to give varying figures.

ENDSMTG is going to take his E55 over to CPT to see how his numbers from Fluid Motor Union's DD compare to CPTs. That should give us a good comparo between the two. As far as I can see, they both will give close numbers. FMU does not mess with the CFs either, their DD actually has built in weather readings so they don't touch anything.

-m

Vadim @ FD

Sean,

Do not compare different brand dynoes on different days.

Different cars on different fuels.

You know how to find me for a ***** session................

Reckless

Marcus, if my car had an old tune ... wouldn't boost be more than 14 psi? We checked boost readings on the dyno at fluid motor union. It was 14 (stock). My turbo gauge has never gone over 14 until after tune. BTW, both dyno's were spot on.

Thericker, car was off for about 20 minutes before being strapped on. Thanks for clarifying about the 2 dynos having same numbers. I don't care to see 500 hp really, I just want to squeeze more power from wherever I can.