MB_Fahrer

Hello all,

Let me cut right to the chase: are all ABC systems as terrible as the one in my 2004 S600? Are there certain years of ABC that are better or worse? Are there certain chassis which just murder ABC?

I've owned the POS in question for 10 months and have only been able to drive it about 150 miles.

I am interested in stock piling some Mercedes (S, CL, SL [mainly like the V12s but I could be talked into a V8]), as the days of RWD seems to be nearing the end. Almost all new MBz are 4matic only, and that is completely unappealing to me. I have no use for AWD, nor will I own a car with it. AWD belongs in SUVs and SUVs alone. NOT in an AMG S-Class.

BR,
Ricky

hotgreek

You absolutely right ! So stupid to make the new AMG's AWD
The problems with the ABC starts with the mechanics I own my self a 2004 S 55 AMG and I have a lot of problems with the suspension The think is that here in US nobody knows how to fix them. They give you all kind of bs just to take your money and later come back and spend some more If you don't know to work on cars you just fu...d !!! Lately I have a small noise in the front and after spending almost $ 5.000 change everything in the front end the noise is still there ...And my valve block needs to be clean and change the o rings and everyone wants to install a new one $ 1.600 plus labor..I don't know what to do any more but I love this car And finaly the ABC is worst the first few years like 2000 - 2003
Good luck

MB_Fahrer

I can understand why some people, the people who only care about numbers, want AWD...It is actually faster, but it takes away all the fun. AMG's are supposed to be mental, not understeering pigs. If I wanted a car with poor handling qualities, I'd go buy an RS4. Anyway...

I think you're right maybe about the mechanics here. Well, maybe owning an ABC long term truly just isn't feasible in this country.

DRTYLNDY

Well here is my take on the ABC. When it works it is just awesome. Once you understand them and how they work the ABC is not that scary at all. I personally have replaced my ABC pump, both valve blocks and the pressure regulator. I also had a mechanic change out a front strut at some point. I now have about 120K miles and she runs mean and strong and is still lots of fun to drive. Soon enough I plan on getting a newer S65 but I think I will just keep the W220 S55 and enjoy her for ever.
Johan

MB_Fahrer

Thank you for your input! I really do appreciate the reply

How often do you have trouble with your car's ABC system? I once heard somebody say something along the lines of "ABC is either broken, or in the process of breaking"...

DRTYLNDY

No problem at all.
My ABC had a lot of issues at the 80K mark really. How it all happened in a nut shell is this. I had a strut start leaking and of course I ignored it for some time. Well then I believe my ABC pump went low on fluid and ingested air. All over from there really. Once the pump fails and you keep driving the fluid gets dirty and filled with tiny particles that kill the valve blocks. SO One strut, two valve blocks, a pump and a crap load of Pentocin and filters. Then at 110K or so the pressure regulator was moaning so I replaced that. The only part I didn't install was the strut.
I have dreamed for sometime of a S65. I know that I don't need it at all but I want it for me. I also plan on like yourself collecting certain ones I really like. For example my S55. I love this car and plan to keep it. I also just picked up a 2000 XJR because they just look so cool and my wife really likes them. I also have a 1969 280SE coupe that I really would enjoy putting in a 55K motor and drivetrain into. Who knows we'll see. It needs a resto/refurb anyways but maybe I will just keep her OEM and clean her up.
Johan

DRTYLNDY

Hey Ricky
So I realized with my last post I didn't really answer your question about the reliability of the ABC. In my opinion it is pretty darn good. If you maintain it and treat it right she will treat you right. If you ignore leaks and let fluid levels get low look the F out. After all the stuff I replaced and the many many swears I yelled while repairing it I still enjoy it because of the experience and knowledge I got from the entire process. I also can't blame the car for my laziness. Live and learn.
So if you really enjoy cars you should consider a 55K car. I find the chirp and ever so low moan of the SC winding up intoxicating to say the least.
It is a bit brutish at times but that's why I love her.
On a side note that is a beautiful list of cars you have.
Johan

hotgreek

Like I said You have to treat those cars the right way The same think you will treat a DD blondie lol My ABC start the problems at 80K too Fix it and go on I like my car too Its my weekend joy No drinking eating in it etc... I put 3-4k a year only And if one day find the right mechanic I'll be the happiest person

Welwynnick

Anyone who wants to look after ABC should read this thread, especially posts 74 and 173:

https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...03-s600-3.html

Yes, its more complicated than passive suspension, but its not rocket science, just hydraulics. Commercial machinery has been using it for decades, and they've got the approach to maintainability licked.

Bringing that approach to cars has been more difficult, and Mercedes started off by burying their head in the sand, and telling everyone it was maintenance free. It's not, you have to change the oil and filter like anything else. Inspect everything during routine servicing and fix any noises and leaks. Then it will look after you. Cross your fingers and hope, and you'll get bitten. Mercedes have a lot to answer for, and their dealers don't help.

Nick

MB_Fahrer

Johan,

Funny you mention the 2000 era XJR... I myself have been lusting after one of those for quite some time. One of the few cars I'd buy in black on black. Very, very slick cars. Fast too!

Cheers,
Ricky

MB_Fahrer

I'm slowly beginning to think maybe I need to try another ABC car. My '04 600 has been an utter nightmare, but maybe it's just a lemon. Each car is different. The previous owners have all had it under warranty. Looking back through the service records I've noticed that the car has spent more time in various shops than at home in the garage. I can't imagine every ABC car is like that. It has to be better. Maybe not as simple as good old coilovers, but not as bad as the one I have. Maybe it's worth trying a W221 with ABC? I wonder how different the systems are between the 220/215 and the 221/216...

Thank you sir, I do have a habit of impulse buying. A lot of my cars are not the most expensive in the world, and maybe not in showroom condition, but hard to come by. I tend to catch myself eyeing the 'oddballs'/ special brutes.

MB_Fahrer

Wow what a thread. I have bookmarked it. I cannot wait to read it in it's entirety later today. Thank you for sharing that with me!

Cheers
Ricky

DRTYLNDY

Hey Ricky
You never said why your ABC is hating you so much. What is it doing or not doing? After 6 years or so with working on my ABC I have become aware of many of the weird issues with it. Hope it all works out for you.
Johan

MB_Fahrer

Johan, my apologies--I didn't see your reply earlier. I'm recalling this all from memory, so please bear with me if a few of the details are a bit foggy.

The car feels like a lemon, or cursed. One of the two. I've owned it since last January/February (warranty expired sometime in July but I'm not interested in that). It seemed like a great car. Three owners, 85k miles, fully loaded including sport pack and distronic; service records galore, etc. All the right things.

Anyway, I drove it around for a week or two just to get a feel for what work needed done. The only real issue was I noticed a vibration, so I had new MPSS's put on and road force balanced. It helped a bit but did not cure it.

I did notice that the front brake rotors were warped (specifically the passenger side), so I replaced them.

Went out and drove it again.

Shimmy under braking was now fixed, but a slight vibration was still there.

Put the car back up on a lift and inspected all the bushings in the front end, most of which were shot (go figure). I had every arm and bushing replaced in the whole front end (UCAs, LCAs, thrust arms, wheel hubs, wheel bearings, tie rod ends, literally everything that holds the front whels onto the car).

At this point my mechanic and I set it down on the ground, ready to send it out for an alignment. This is where the "fun" begins.

Something was unhappy in the front end to the point that it sat flat on the ground. The rear was fine, just the front was screwed up. I had my mechanic plug into it with Xentry/DAS and run for codes. No codes found. I had him rodeo it. Found out the front end had insufficient pressure (I don't remember the exact psi/bar) to the point that the rodeo would pause to let the ABC pump would kick up it's speed every 5-10 seconds.

He/we figured it was the front valve block that was bad, so we replaced it. Then we ran rodeo again. Pressure was even worse, so he said to replace the tandem pump. I replaced it.

After the pump got replaced, which was actually quite easy considering what it could have been, we ran the rodeo test (and a few others, but I can't remember what). DAS said to replace the A4/B4 pressure sensor assembly (underneath the car near where the passenger's feet would go--roughly).

Replaced that and ran the rodeo tests again, only to have both lines to the front shocks burst. At this point, I'm pretty livid with the car, so I just pushed it outside my shop and that's where it's been since last July. I really should do something with it, I'd love to be able to drive it, as it's such a wonderful car. If the ABC just can't be dealt with, then I'd like to sell it. It doesn't make sense to ruin it anymore by letting it sit outside, as cosmetically anyway it's just amazing--like new. No dents, dings, scratches. Always been garaged (well, prior to me anyway)... You get the idea.

What do you think?
Ricky

MB_Fahrer

Just as an update, I finally got my car sorted out. Replaced the rear valve body, the front lines running to the shocks, and two relays. I've got about 1000 miles on it since all of that and all seems well--at least for the moment. Sure is a nice car. The distronic is just amazing. It's THE must-have option. Don't even consider one of these cars unless it has it. I had a 500 mile "road trip" the other week, and distronic made it a breeze. It makes the drive so very relaxing and relieves the stress of having to incessantly speed up and slow down with the rest of traffic, as the car does it for me!

And the power? Good god--I believe that about sums it up. The quickest I've clocked 0-60 right now is 4.3 seconds--and that's losing traction with ESP cutting in. It should be about 4.1 or so if I could ever get it to hook up. Oh, and did I mention that was with a full tank of gas?

I can see myself driving this car coast to coast. In fact, I can't really think of a car that would do it better--except maybe a W221 S600.

Anyway, here are a couple pictures of the ride:



Good thing for self leveling suspension. Couple hundred pounds back here and it needs it.


Finally, a vehicle that makes the S600 look small--my race-rig


Such a welcome sight after being at the track for three days. A nice, heated massage on the way home will helped cure some of the aches from the Porsche


Saying goodbye to my SL600 for the last time. Very sad to see it go. Really loved that car, but I'm off to bigger and better things.



4900 with me, some stuff in the trunk, and over 3/4 tank of gas? No wonder it's a rocket on wheels






24.5MPG at 80MPH?! In a V12? Mind=blown.

Welwynnick

Glad to hear you've turned a corner with that car. For the money, nothing else combines road rocket and luxo-barge the same way, and its not even that thirsty.

Here's a few tips to keep ABC purring:

Obviously, check the reservoir level regularly, and change the oil and filter every two or three years.
Inspect all the flexible hoses every year - especially those around the engine, and replace any that are seeping.
Make sure the collars on the struts' quick-release hydraulic connectors don't seize.
Make sure the screws at the bottom of the front struts don't seize.
Make sure the level sensor link joints don't seize.
Keep driving it!

All the best, Nick

MB_Fahrer

Hi Nick,

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Can't tell you how happy I am that the car seems to be working for the moment. It's going to take some time before I truly trust it as a vehicle. With that said, it wouldn't stop me driving to California this afternoon if I needed to. As with all Mercedes, the longer you go, the better it gets.

About those quick-release fittings for the front struts seizing.... Any tips once they are seized? Mine seem to be.

Cheers,
Ricky

Welwynnick

When the weight is on the wheels, the connectors are held tight by hydraulic pressure, so the first thing to do is jack the car up so the wheel is hanging (incidentally, while you're doing that, shake the wheel up and down to see if the strut top bush is tight or slack - they're prone to wear).

Assuming there's no pressure in the line, pry the rubber cover up so the quick-release collar is uncovered. It should spin round, but often doesn't. I don't know an easy way round this. What I did with mine was manipulate it with Mole grips. It won't slide up and down straight away (like someone in some Mercedes Benz Ivory Tower imagined it would) but you should be able to rotate it a degree clockwise and back, then two degrees, then three...

Eventually you'll be able to spin it all the way round, then you can start trying to slide it up and down. Its a long, gradual process, but you'll get there. If you have a strut or hose fail, it will be painful, but if you just happen to have the car jacked up, a bit of preventative maintenance now and again doesn't hurt.

Funnily enough, all the other ABC threaded joints are a straightfoward to undo. Only possible exception is where the metal pipes go into the tops of the struts themselves, but that's only when you need to swap left and right struts (as those pipes are handed - otherwise the L&R struts are the same).

Nick

PS. Incidentally, its worth draining some fluid whenever you have a wheel off. Put a clear hose on the bleed/drain nipple and open it slightly to drain some dirty oil out. Jack the suspension arm up as far as it will go, so the strut is fully compressed. That will get almost all the oil out of the strut.

This helps because the oil in the pump/regulator/cooler/valves circuit is continuously circulating and filtered. The oil in the struts, and in the lines up to the valves, just goes backwards and forwards, and doesn't get filtered. Therefore it gets very dirty, so get it out whenever its convenient.

Jack the car using the car's pillar jack, as that corner will be slammed when you let it back down again. However, the strut will fill itself with clean oil once you start it up again.

jnash

Nice reminder about the stagnant oil in the struts Nick - thanks.
If the engine is off aren't the ABC blocks shut? I can just drain oil at a strut then jack-down and start the engine, the repeat for each wheel? or do i have to remove the pressure in the system first?

Welwynnick

Yes, the valves isolate the struts from the ABC circuit when the engine is off. So if you drain the oil at each corner, it can only come from the struts and the pipes between the struts and the valves.

I suggest draining the oil by rasing the suspension so that you force the oil out, rather than simply letting it drain, which would let air in.

I wouldn't recommend opening the drains when the oil is pressurised by the weight of the car. That would be a lot of pressure.

Also, don't start the engine when the car ISN'T resting on its wheels.

Hopefully that's obvious to anyone who might want to try this.

Nick

Exotic-metal55

My 2003 CL55 ABC has worked great! I have changed the oil a couple times and the filter. One strut failed at 39K and that is all so far. I have 67K on the car now.

I love AWD cars and the traction! Yes, I mod everything I ever own, so AWD is a bonus for me.

richvegas

24.5mpg?!?!?!?

jnash

Nick, Thank you,
So for this process of just draining stagnant oil in each strut I should open the release valve. There is one per corner right? No need to undo any pipes or is there a better way?
-Jim

Welwynnick

Yeah - its a bleed nipple rather than a valve, but no, you don't have to undo any pipes. There's one for each strut; I think they're pretty much at the lowest point in each pipe.

I would put a clear plastic pipe (someting like 1/4") over the end, so you can see the oil coming out, and avoid any air going in. Use two spanners to undo the bled nipple - one for the nipple nut and one for the valve body. The pipes aren't strong enough to take the torque on their own. Breaking the pipe would spoil your day. IIRC you need 11mm and 18mm ring spanners.

Rather than simply letting the oil drain out, I suggest slowly pushing it out by lifting the lower suspension arm using a jack, until the strut is fully compressed. Don't let the strut back down. Close the drain, put the wheel back on and use the jack to put the car back down. The car will then be very low at that corner.

Nick

Welwynnick

Better believe it. I get 32 mpg from mine every time I go on a long, gentle cruise (but that's UK gallons). Its even better than my old S500 and N/A S600. Put you foot down, and its obviously a differnet matter, though.

Nick