Yay! Got my first error message that will likely cost thousands!

It just started to act up. Some times it works, other times not. I topped the fluid off with MB fluid yesterday while running. Shut it off, started it and it was running.

Went home, waited an hour, nothing...error message again.

Shut it off, restarted, nothing
shut down, restart, nothing
shut down, restart, works
shut down, restart, works

This morning, error.

Tried several times to get it working, nothing. Made an apt at an Indy shop...

Biff?



Yeah, I'm planning to take it to a Stealership....

I think you have to make sure it's a good indy, and you have to strangle the fishing expedition the way ABC strangles body roll.

Have them do an ABC fluid flush / filter / rodeo service "the MB way" first, before they do anything. The reason is simple, that service by itself will never be wasted money -- it's like changing oil. If it stops there, you win for now. I wouldn't let them do anything before that.

Good luck.

maw

Thanks. I'm just worried they'll try and upsell me something I don't need. What does a flush/fill usually run?

Well that's always, the upsell -- it's how they stay in business. Having them start here collars that a bit, makes them look for guppies (or Biffs) elsewhere. Otherwise, they'd go straight to pumps, valves, sensors, and God only knows what else.

The service was around $375 for my last one. Looks like 2 Hrs labor (at $90/hr for my guys), $140 for fluid, $55 for filter. That was almost 5 years and 25k miles ago for me though, so crank that up a bit. I think some dealers are around $110/hr these days.

But if your car hasn't been sagging, then you know it's not likely a valve ($1300 part, retail $1800). And if it operates normally at any time, you know it's not the pump ($2500 part, I think). The flush/filter/rodeo will tell you whether the pump is operating within spec. My guess (for the expensive stuff) is the fluid is tired, the pump is getting hot dealing with it, and the error code relates to the pump getting too hot.

If the pump and valves are working, fluid and filter are new (which they will be after this) but you keep getting messages, then I think sensors. But that's where the thrill ride begins. Let's hope you don't take that ride.

maw

I am prepared to spending upwards of $4k for the repair. The dealership here is not the most liked but the only one around. There is an Indy not far from them that seems to have great ratings. They specialize in European cars.

I bought a liter of the ABC fluid from the dealership yesterday, $34.00

Mine was 6 liters. Let's space that $4k out, shall we? I'm sure you got it in the purchase price of the car, but that doesn't mean you have to give it all back right away.

I got ALL the money in the purchase price of mine, and I'm still happy because I haven't really given any of it back.

Cheers,

maw

Yeah... not far from every unbeloved dealer is a thriving Euro indy... It's sort of the ecosystem. This is good for you because dealers aren't much better for their employees than they are for their customers. You should check how many service guys at the indy came from the dealership, and when.

That's when having an 11 year old car comes back to work in your favor. Almost everyone knows how to take care of them. The W220 part of that equation works well for you, the 65 AMG part, not so much. But there were enough ABC cars around for folks to know how to deal with them. It's not the oh sh*t nightmare system these car boards make it out to be, which is why MB still uses it in its most demanding applications (fluid hydraulics vs. air).

Good luck,

maw

This Indy shop is completely family owned. All the Techs are family(bothers and sons).

I'm maybe wondering if I should go to the dealer anyway....I'm trying to get me set up with a loaner car.

Yeah, but you want ABC experience. Period. I don't care if they're all martians.

maw

first repair and many more to come, sad but true.

could be a failing pump

Flush it yourself and add an inline magnetic filter......I did mine and switched fluid to Mobil 1 ATF.......no issues since and the M1 is a lot cheaper than the crappy hydroscopic Pentosin......

White error message or red message ? When you clear the message and drive the car, does it stay off and then comes back when you restart the car ? A good Mercedes indy shop should be able to diagnosis it. A fluid change and rodeo are the first step. My S55 will show a white message when I first start it. The fluid is clean, has been replaced. The STAR machine showed acceptable pressure from the pump, but has a error from the suction throttle valve. That part is part of the pump and not replaceable by itself. The car raises and lowers, works as normal and I only get a white warning message when I first start the car. It's been like that for a year now and it's no big deal. I have replaced the rear ABC block, as the rear pass. side was sagging when I shut the car off. You can get a new {remanufactured} pump for around $1000 or a used for around $500. Labor, fluid is going to be another $500 or so. The fluid should look clear. If your fluid is dirty, black, flush it and do the rodeo. The rodeo makes the car go up and down and side to side like a mechanical bull ride. If the pump is weak it might not be able to finish the test. If your pump is just starting to go, you have some time. Time to get the $1500 together to replace the pump. When you start getting constant messages or red warnings, your times up. The STAR machine will tell you whats going on. You might get lucky and only have a bad sensor in the system. The pump doesn't all the sudden fail {usually} unless you run it dry. Dirty fluid will ruin the pump, o rings and seals in the other components of the ABC system. Flush the system right away and take it from there.

Just the white message now. Seems that the shocks are locked into place. No sagging...yet which is a good thing. I can tell the steering is stiffer so I know the pump is not working.

My apt is Monday, earliest they have. Ugh.

A lot of work was already done before I got this car. Plugs, coils, control arms, fluid changes, etc.

One thing I did not see done, ABC.

Does the A or B maintenance include ABC flush? Both of those schedules were done also.

I was thinking of doing a conversion kit but it looks like no one makes it for the S65...?

you can use the conversion kit the make for the W220

Stiff steering could be the rack and pinion . That's what my S55 needed when the steering was stiff. Not sure about the shocks locking. Doe's the car raise when you tell it to ? If the pump isn't groaning, I'd look at the rack. Manufactured steering rack is around $350/400. Let us know what happens, please.
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Nothing includes an ABC flush, according to MB it's not required, although that's just false.

Get the codes pulled first, whatever caused the light will be stored. It could be something stupid like a sensor fault, or it could be very, very major.

I don't know in your area, but the dealer I work at is 189/hr labor. It adds up fast. I quoted 4 struts, a main pressure line, associated bolts/seals, and level sensor connectors on an older SL500 the other day. Over 12k with labor.

Yeah, they'll tell me Monday what the deal is. I'm guessing pump failure. It has not worked since Tuesday yet all the shocks are still holding level. Guess that is ONE good thing. I found out who the last owner is and he is sending me invoices of previous work done. It seems he had quite a bit of work done to this one. Nothing with ABC though.

And if they say everything needs replacing, I will seriously consider a lemon-law lawsuit against MB. I understand this is a 10 year old car, and parts will need servicing/replacing. However, it only has 76000 miles on it. That is pathetic to have so many issues. Not just mine, but others on here as well. It always had its scheduled services. It was not like it was neglected or anything.

I guess I'm just venting, but I've had Jaguars, Corvettes and Cadillacs and never have I seen so many issues with these cars. Maybe my luck has run out with this one.

Unfortunately the MB Maintenance schedule does not require service for several critical components or if the manual does require service for a component, the service interval is unusually long. Following the maintenance schedule will keep you out of trouble with MBUSA while the car is under warranty, however, the maintenance schedule is not adequate to protect these cars. Fluids should be changed a lot sooner than recommended for most components and for items such as ABC system where there is no service recommended, owners should still change fluids regularly to prevent problems.

I had my ABC fluid and filters changed at my dealership for $1574 but considering the complexity and known issues with the system, I think it is cheap insurance.

Thanks Larry.

I admit, I'm learning a lot about MB cars. Yes, I agree with fluid replacements earlier than recommended. I've done that with several of my past vehicles. I was planning to get the ABC flushed and alignment #10(yes needs another one done ), but then this happened.

The research I am doing tells me the ABC is a flawed system, period. Even with regular maintenance, it will still fail. There are hundreds if not thousands of people upset with having to replace such an expensive system. IMO, the pump should last 100K+ WITH regular fluid changes, especially on a $172,000 car.

Vinny I agree with everything that you just said regarding the ABC System. There are numerous folks upset with the system and in my opinion the design is flawed although you can't beat the ride when it works. The pump should last at least to 100K miles but based on research and the experience of others, even with regular fluid changes, when the car reaches 80K miles it's not a matter of if but when the ABC System will fail. I think changing the fluid and filter every 3-5 years or 30-40K miles helps prolong the life of the system. Hopefully MB got it right with MBC, however, it is too early to tell.

Can't lemon law a car just because you don't agree with the way they designed it. That's more a case of you shouldn't buy an old one because they are a known maintenance nightmare. The ABC system was the first crack at it, and it got much more reliable and worry free in the 221/216 chassis cars. Unfortunately, these old cars are so cheap, they are bought by people without the budget to maintain a $100K car that has the best of everything and overly complex systems. So now, there's tons of people that cry about the system when the $10k car they bought needs $10k in service. That's the reason the cars are cheap, just part of the chance you take when you buy one.

As far as "low mileage", sitting is what kills these cars. I see much better average condition on the ones that have 100k+ miles on them, as they need to be driven and driven hard. The systems sitting idle or barely working don't keep them going, they just fail anyway.

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