well if you desire to get rid of let me know. The 275 is what I want been looking for a broken unrepairable one for over 2 year or till I blow mine up. Been beating mine for 11 years now with 90 shot and alot of boost and got my body weight down to 3480 with half tank and me in it. Shooting for less with carbon seats and polycarbonate windows. And if I was you switch to amzoil oils if this would've happened and engine failure was oil lube related they would have been the one to buy replacement engine. If you ever change your mind or know anyone who has one that they want to dump block or broken engine.

 

 

sorry was to be 4380 but will have my w220 down under the 4k mark by spring funds permitting. Looking for brackets for carbon fiber seats that will bolt racing seat into the 220 and doing the glass in spring and then maybe a lithium battery too.

 

it looks like is common failure because it happens to me too. I bought a nice 600CL 2007 with metal shavings on the oil filter. I was hopping I could fix it but there was no chance to do so.
The main bearing cap felt to the timing chain gear but luckily it went down to the oil pan and did not change timing.
Now, the reason why I am writing here is to try solve the mystery of the origin of the problem. Basically for me is not good only to know who's the victim and the killer but most important, why it was murder.

I kave my block opened to check clearances of the main bearing with plastigauge. I found two interenting facts. The first three main where too tight. Much more than tolerances of workshop manual. But why?. That’s why I need your help Mr. lane. I have found some marks on the seats of those main bearings that were not on the other four. They look like factory defects of casting process of the main block. If you still have access to you old block you could check for those marks on the bearing seats.

 

[QUOTE=mistral1970;8591128]it looks like is common failure because it happens to me too. I bought a nice 600CL 2007 with metal shavings on the oil filter. I was hopping I could fix it but there was no chance to do so.
The main bearing cap felt to the timing chain gear but luckily it went down to the oil pan and did not change timing.
Now, the reason why I am writing here is to try solve the mystery of the origin of the problem. Basically for me is not good only to know who's the victim and the killer but most important, why it was murder.

I kave my block opened to check clearances of the main bearing with plastigauge. I found two interenting facts. The first three main where too tight. Much more than tolerances of workshop manual. But why?. That’s why I need your help Mr. lane. I have found some marks on the seats of those main bearings that were not on the other four. They look like factory defects of casting process of the main block. If you still have access to you old block you could check for those marks on the bearing seats.[/QUOTE

FYI; Having done some extensive work on W220 and W221 S65 V-12 engines in the past 2 years myself, I have made several attempts to communicate with Mr. Lane but have not gotten any response from him during the last year or so.

My observations have been that the plastic timing chain guides start to fail over time and may be the culprit/source of the front main bearing failure. I still have a V12 free spinning crankshaft intact with all the mains mounted and sitting in it's original block that I'm planning to sell together with all the other V12 parts sitting in my garage as I now am more focused on the (2-2017 ) M178 AMG-GT engines that I'm working on.

Sorry I could not be of more help to you, John Lane was a great source when he was active on this forum.

Best H

 

John Lane is still around... though more intermittent of late.

My 275 that spat the main shell into the chains went to the scrapper two years and change ago. $17,500 for a nice used engine with 30,000 miles that ran well. The car had 78,000 miles and was over ten years old....As such I never dreamed that Mercedes would participate in replacement of an engine.
We moved 1500 miles from Washington and I just didn’t have it in me to have it make the trip so it could take up space in a MUCH smaller garage space. That engine with the front main bearing issue.... first I have seen one do that. Hopefully the last time it happens in one of my cars! I sold my 2008 S-65 last year. Current steed is a 279 powered car. Many updates for the 279. Glad to have individual coils. 222 car is another quantum leap ahead. Similar to 220 vs 221.

Mistral.... I suspect we are both winners of the loser-lottery with our dead 275 lumps. Were this truly a common issue we would be seeing multiple threads about the it... akin to what we see with the balance shaft gear issue in certain 5.5 liter lumps.
As it goes... marks on the front of the (chain end) bearing saddle in your photos sure look like there was a thrust bearing issue with it. Can’t help but wonder if thrust goes away and bearing shells get pounded out. I have not had the rotating assembly of a 275 apart so this is strictly conjecture on my part. Marks on the rest of the bearing saddles look like bearings were getting hammered. How did the rest of the shells look?

Hendrick.... was that you who inquired about the box of 275 timing parts I have? If so they made the trip to Arizona and could be shipped.

Thoughts?

John Lane

 

John,

Good to see your still visiting here, yes it was me, I have rebuild a 2006 S65 motor for a friend in Dallas and I'm currently still taking care of a 2008 SL65 for a friend of mine so yes the parts may still be useful to have let me know the cost and be happy to pay for them.

I have sold my own 2007 S65 last year since a 2017 AMG GTS (picked it up in Arizona at the dealer in Phoenix, that needed a motor replacement and I had a 13k miles motor on hand so lets say it came my way. I have been driving it for a year now and enjoy that car but I do miss my V12 (but owning 4 cars was one to many).

Thanks for the reply,

I wish you well.

HK

 

Hi John,
Thank for taking time to answer. I was hopping you had your old engine with you. Anyways, I still think that there has been a manufacturing defects on these two engines. It does not have to be a defect that is present on many serial numbers like the one you mention on M273 a M272 engines that afects the first 60.000 units. There could be only a few units with this problem and still be a manufacturing quality defects that may be avoided with proper care and quality procedures. Also it is a security issue due to the consequences you may experience if this failure occurs during hight speed turns. I really think that you did win the lotery ticket because nothing happens to you. One question: are you able to recall your car VIN number?. If so could you send it to me by PM.? I could trace engines serial numbers to see any possible match.
Speaking about my engine. In other main bearings, even on those on the afected seats of the pictures, were perfect. There was a little marks that apears to be dome from the seat to the bearing on some of the affected side. No rotation of the bearing are shown on the seats and the rest of the seats not shown on the pictures were perfect. All main bearing were perfect also but the one ended out. One interested thing was that the car was running without the bearing for 4K kilometer without any check engine light on and without any problem at all felt on the driving. No oil pressure warnings at all. I just happen to check the oilpan on oil change and found the bearing there.
I did check the Thrust bearing for condition, further more I did check with a micrometer what tolerance I had on longitudinal cranckshaft play. It way under factory specs (between 0.1 and 0.254 milimeters). Also I did buy a new bearing, put it on and check clearance and took some pictures that I think talks by it self.
I will attach then. Take a look at new install bearing at the affected side in comparation with the other not affected side. Tolerance for these gaps should not be more than 0.022 and 0.047 mm. all around the seat. In those affected seatd you are able to a light put it in the other side.
I send an email to Mercedes customer service to have an opinion on these. They told me to take the block to the mercedes shop to have an opinion. Let´s wait to see what they have to say.

Once again thanks for your time Jhon.
Sorry for my english and writing.

 

Hi John,
Thank for taking time to answer. I was hopping you had your old engine with you. Anyways, I still think that there has been a manufacturing defects on these two engines. It does not have to be a defect that is present on many serial numbers like the one you mention on M273 a M272 engines that afects the first 60.000 units. There could be only a few units with this problem and still be a manufacturing quality defects that may be avoided with proper care and quality procedures. Also it is a security issue due to the consequences you may experience if this failure occurs during hight speed turns. I really think that you did win the lotery ticket because nothing happens to you. One question: are you able to recall your car VIN number?. If so could you send it to me by PM.? I could trace engines serial numbers to see any possible match.
Speaking about my engine. In other main bearings, even on those on the afected seats of the pictures, were perfect. There was a little marks that apears to be dome from the seat to the bearing on some of the affected side. No rotation of the bearing are shown on the seats and the rest of the seats not shown on the pictures were perfect. All main bearing were perfect also but the one ended out. One interested thing was that the car was running without the bearing for 4K kilometer without any check engine light on and without any problem at all felt on the driving. No oil pressure warnings at all. I just happen to check the oilpan on oil change and found the bearing there.
I did check the Thrust bearing for condition, further more I did check with a micrometer what tolerance I had on longitudinal cranckshaft play. It way under factory specs (between 0.1 and 0.254 milimeters). Also I did buy a new bearing, put it on and check clearance and took some pictures that I think talks by it self.
I will attach then. Take a look at new install bearing at the affected side in comparation with the other not affected side. Tolerance for these gaps should not be more than 0.022 and 0.047 mm. all around the seat. In those affected seatd you are able to a light put it in the other side.
I send an email to Mercedes customer service to have an opinion on these. They told me to take the block to the mercedes shop to have an opinion. Let´s wait to see what they have to say.

Once again thanks for your time Jhon.
Sorry for my english and writing.

 

Hi John,
Thank for taking time to answer. I was hopping you had your old engine with you. Anyways, I still think that there has been a manufacturing defects on these two engines. It does not have to be a defect that is present on many serial numbers like the one you mention on M273 a M272 engines that afects the first 60.000 units. There could be only a few units with this problem and still be a manufacturing quality defects that may be avoided with proper care and quality procedures. Also it is a security issue due to the consequences you may experience if this failure occurs during hight speed turns. I really think that you did win the lotery ticket because nothing happens to you. One question: are you able to recall your car VIN number?. If so could you send it to me by PM.? I could trace engines serial numbers to see any possible match.
Speaking about my engine. In other main bearings, even on those on the afected seats of the pictures, were perfect. There was a little marks that apears to be dome from the seat to the bearing on some of the affected side. No rotation of the bearing are shown on the seats and the rest of the seats not shown on the pictures were perfect. All main bearing were perfect also but the one ended out. One interested thing was that the car was running without the bearing for 4K kilometer without any check engine light on and without any problem at all felt on the driving. No oil pressure warnings at all. I just happen to check the oilpan on oil change and found the bearing there.
I did check the Thrust bearing for condition, further more I did check with a micrometer what tolerance I had on longitudinal cranckshaft play. It way under factory specs (between 0.1 and 0.254 milimeters). Also I did buy a new bearing, put it on and check clearance and took some pictures that I think talks by it self.
I will attach then. Take a look at new install bearing at the affected side in comparation with the other not affected side. Tolerance for these gaps should not be more than 0.022 and 0.047 mm. all around the seat. In those affected seatd you are able to a light put it in the other side.
I send an email to Mercedes customer service to have an opinion on these. They told me to take the block to the mercedes shop to have an opinion. Let´s wait to see what they have to say.

Once again thanks for your time Jhon.
Sorry for my english and writing.

 

Just my opinon, just way overpriced poorly made and engineered junk. Suzuki did a much better job using the same materials on their Geo Metro engines. With the price MB wants for those engines its just insane. You can almost get a special built high performance engine for what those MB engines are priced at.
And you get much better parts too boot. I find it funny how many problems encountered nowdays with auto engines had pretty much all been figured out 50 plus years ago, I guess history repeats itself.

 

Hey you old gas bag.... Long time!

Every company has issues with engines, transmissions... electronics... fancier that stuff gets the more pain when it goes wrong.

Fifty years ago an engine making one horsepower per cubic inch was a world class hot rod. Rare indeed was an engine that wound up beyond 5000 rpms. I’m old enough to remember having that junk apart at 30-50,000 miles to freshen them. Modern engines and engine management is and has been a godsend. Show of hands... who remembers the games we got to play to get our old junk with points, condenser and carburetors to start when cold and stay running? Today we sit down, apply the brakes and press a button for the lump under the hood to start up perfectly every time.

Lol.

 

+1… the engine management especially is a total game changer. Until some “tuner” starts mucking around for more power, at which time all bets are off. I was just talking to a very knowledgeable Mercedes transmission rebuilder about some famous Mercedes tuner’s “beefed up” transmission gimmicks. “Run, don’t walk, away” was the short story. But I digress.

maw

 

Bump for the fellow asking about dropping an engine with subframe.

 

Bump for those asking about it.