Testing a W222 S65 as a substitute for the W221?
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Lexus LS430
Testing a W222 S65 as a substitute for the W221?
I’ve been really interested in getting in a W221 S63 or S65. I’ve tested both the S550 and the S600 and fell in love with the S600, but after a recent road-trip that had lots of twisty roads up mountains, I’ve found myself drawn to the AMG variants. I haven’t had the chance to test drive either kind but plan on test driving them this week, only issue is that there are zero W221 S65’s for sale locally and I currently can’t leave the state with work right now. There’s no limit in W221 S63’s to test, but with the lack of S65’s around in AZ, I was wondering if the next generation of S65 would be a good substitute to get an idea for what they’re like? I know the interior is vastly different, it has a few more horsepower and I’m sure it handles a bit differently. Does this seem like a good substitute or just wait for one to eventually pop up on the market
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'06 MB S55 AMG; '04 Audi Allroad 4.2; '05 BMW M3 Conv.; '92 MB 500E
I don't own either, but I understand the W222 65 to be a better car in almost every way. The W222 65 is when MB finally "fixed" the coil pack issue that had plagued the "one coil per bank" 65s in W220/W221 variants. It comes with the cost of extra complexity everywhere ($6k headlights anyone?) and I haven't studied intently what that means. I have no idea what the extra sensors and computers for "Magic Ride" are, what they cost, or what it's like to live with them. And I'm sure there are other examples. If I was making a decision between these, the W222 63 4Matic might be my choice. Sure, you don't get to say "Daddy", but with a tune, AWD and less weight and complexity, that might be better. But I don't traverse Arizona.
So sure, drive them both if you can and make your choice. The question will still be (IMO), "which wrapper on that drivetrain do I want to live with?" And here, "live with" are two heavily loaded words.
I hope that helps.
maw
So sure, drive them both if you can and make your choice. The question will still be (IMO), "which wrapper on that drivetrain do I want to live with?" And here, "live with" are two heavily loaded words.
I hope that helps.
maw
Last edited by maw1124; Mar 15, 2022 at 09:21 PM.
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From: So Cal
CL600, Transit Connect
The transmissions are very different. W221 has 722.649, a 5 speed. W222 has 722.932, a 7 speed.
Significant differences in gearing and responsiveness to shift commands.
The W222 will feel more sporty in sport mode vs. W221.
Top gear is taller in 722.932, the engine turns slower when at cruise. Partial throttle changes at cruise seem less responsive.
FYI, Be aware many early w221 S65 had high oil consumption- mine used a quart at roughly 900 miles and was very well maintained with changes @5k miles.
Fuel mileage at cruise was unexpectedly good (26.7 on the flat roads of Arizona) but combined or being enthusiastic was easily half.
Brakes can be a surprise in cost- Amazing Money Grab in full. I used Racing Brake when the time came and was very happy with them.
Good luck in your search- they are a fantastic blend of performance and luxury.
Significant differences in gearing and responsiveness to shift commands.
The W222 will feel more sporty in sport mode vs. W221.
Top gear is taller in 722.932, the engine turns slower when at cruise. Partial throttle changes at cruise seem less responsive.
FYI, Be aware many early w221 S65 had high oil consumption- mine used a quart at roughly 900 miles and was very well maintained with changes @5k miles.
Fuel mileage at cruise was unexpectedly good (26.7 on the flat roads of Arizona) but combined or being enthusiastic was easily half.
Brakes can be a surprise in cost- Amazing Money Grab in full. I used Racing Brake when the time came and was very happy with them.
Good luck in your search- they are a fantastic blend of performance and luxury.
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From: Laguna Niguel
'94 SL600,'05 SL600,'06 S65,'07 E63,'14 E63S,'09SL600 all sold, ‘15 S65,‘18 E63S,'17 SL65, '17S65Cab
We had a 2006 W220 S65 and it used a quart of oil in less than 900 miles from the day we bought it. Put 90k miles on that car, consumption never changed. The MB version of the V12 in our two SL600's never used any oil.
We sold the W220 S65 and bought a W222 S65. We also got rid of our W212 E63S, good riddance, and bought a W213 E63s. The W222 S65 is is a fantastic car. It is a 2015 now at 42k miles. We have replaced tires several times (about 18K miles/set), had several front end alignments, replaced the brake pads once and replaced the accessory battery in the trunk area. That is it. The W222 S65 does not use any oil, nor does our R231 SL65.
I would not consider a W221 S63, they are rear drive only unlike the W222 S63. We absolutely hated the 7speed/5.5L combo in our W212 E63S. The engine was ok but that transmission was, in a word, awful. The 9 speed/4.0L combo in the W213 is so much better in all ways. Based on our experience if buying a W222 S63 I would only consider the newer years with the 4.0L/9sp driveline. The all wheel drive is nice. The S65 has MBC rather than Airmatic and a torque converter rather than an SMT. Our E63s and S65 get identical highway fuel mileage, about 21mpg @80mph. The W222 S63 and S65 are both great cars but they offer a different driving experience.
We sold the W220 S65 and bought a W222 S65. We also got rid of our W212 E63S, good riddance, and bought a W213 E63s. The W222 S65 is is a fantastic car. It is a 2015 now at 42k miles. We have replaced tires several times (about 18K miles/set), had several front end alignments, replaced the brake pads once and replaced the accessory battery in the trunk area. That is it. The W222 S65 does not use any oil, nor does our R231 SL65.
I would not consider a W221 S63, they are rear drive only unlike the W222 S63. We absolutely hated the 7speed/5.5L combo in our W212 E63S. The engine was ok but that transmission was, in a word, awful. The 9 speed/4.0L combo in the W213 is so much better in all ways. Based on our experience if buying a W222 S63 I would only consider the newer years with the 4.0L/9sp driveline. The all wheel drive is nice. The S65 has MBC rather than Airmatic and a torque converter rather than an SMT. Our E63s and S65 get identical highway fuel mileage, about 21mpg @80mph. The W222 S63 and S65 are both great cars but they offer a different driving experience.
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From: Phoenix
222 S-65
OP did you find an 222 S-65 to drive?
They are available in the Phoenix area. I found one and am enjoying it.
Having had the 221 and now the 222 S-65 I’d only consider the 222 car. Magic body control is excellent. Carbon Ceramic brakes are a must... no dust, no noise, they last a long time and fill the wheel nicely. I tore up pads and rotors every 30,000 in the 221 car with warped rotors over and over. Current ICE is a blessing. I get in the car and it grabs the phone and plays my music without the games in the 221 car. Seats are improved without the PSE issues I’ve seen in too many 221 cars. As Maw pointed out... individual coils that have not been troublesome. Solenoids to control boost are now on top rather then being cooked by proximity to exhaust (to be clear I never had a solenoid fail but the plastic/rubber hoses got cooked several times).
In short... the 222 car is as big a jump forward as the 221 car compared with 220.
Bummer Mercedes went to the HUGE screens for the 223. I like the tactile feel of buttons to operate functions to keep my eyes on the road.
They are available in the Phoenix area. I found one and am enjoying it.
Having had the 221 and now the 222 S-65 I’d only consider the 222 car. Magic body control is excellent. Carbon Ceramic brakes are a must... no dust, no noise, they last a long time and fill the wheel nicely. I tore up pads and rotors every 30,000 in the 221 car with warped rotors over and over. Current ICE is a blessing. I get in the car and it grabs the phone and plays my music without the games in the 221 car. Seats are improved without the PSE issues I’ve seen in too many 221 cars. As Maw pointed out... individual coils that have not been troublesome. Solenoids to control boost are now on top rather then being cooked by proximity to exhaust (to be clear I never had a solenoid fail but the plastic/rubber hoses got cooked several times).
In short... the 222 car is as big a jump forward as the 221 car compared with 220.
Bummer Mercedes went to the HUGE screens for the 223. I like the tactile feel of buttons to operate functions to keep my eyes on the road.
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A45
I like both the current S and the one before, but obviously with mountains of gadget they're not going to be as reliable as my dad's W126. The only thing I still can't get used to in the new S was the 3D SatNav, gives me a head ache LOL.
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From: Phoenix
222 S-65
Current cars are worlds more complex while requiring much less babysitting... 221 being a huge improvement over 220 cars... 222 cars being every bit as much an improvement over the 221.
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'06 MB S55 AMG; '04 Audi Allroad 4.2; '05 BMW M3 Conv.; '92 MB 500E
Things are having trouble on the W220 at 15 years old where the similar system on the W124 is showing no trouble at all (hydraulic suspension, door and trunk handles come to mind) at the 30 year mark. But these are quibbles -- neither is problematic, all things considered. I had my LH module rebuilt on the W124, along with replacing caps and rotors. But on the W220, some pulley is almost always on the way out. And on some W221 cars, coil packs and ignition modules are never ending failures. I'm sure "Magic Ride" will show a failure rate soon enough. Just give it time.
They're all man built machines -- and machines fail. Mercedes S Class machines tend to fail at similar rates over time, which is to say "not much, all things considered." That said, simpler seems to have been better as you watch these systems over enough time. Computerizing everything just left us open to more computer failures.
maw
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From: Phoenix
222 S-65
Maw let’s just say that I still miss my 124-036. Even though my 221 and 222 S class cars will beat it badly in every measurable test imaginable.
Sure loved the bulged fenders and quarter panels. Don’t miss the brakes that checked out at 80mph from three digits and warped all the time. Lol. Sure made the right bent-eight noise. But the 211 E55 was sooooo much badder. Now coach work from a 500E on a 211 Chassis... hmmm.
Sure loved the bulged fenders and quarter panels. Don’t miss the brakes that checked out at 80mph from three digits and warped all the time. Lol. Sure made the right bent-eight noise. But the 211 E55 was sooooo much badder. Now coach work from a 500E on a 211 Chassis... hmmm.
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'06 MB S55 AMG; '04 Audi Allroad 4.2; '05 BMW M3 Conv.; '92 MB 500E
maw
